5 ms·

as a US Resident, China has no authority to murder me or put me in a cage like the US Government does. So if I had to choose I would prefer china over the NSA

by syshum 7y ago

as a US Resident, China has no authority to murder me or put me in a cage like the US Government does. So if I had to choose I would prefer china over the NSA, Of course neither is the best option but ..... if I lived in China the inverse would be true

gruez 7y ago
That argument really only works if you're a political activist or even an average citizen. However, if you're a high level executive, defense contractor, or a high ranking government employee, do you really want the Chinese government to have access to your comms AND know your movements?
- TwoBit 7y ago
  So 98% of American citizens then.
- syshum 7y ago
  good thing I am just an average American citizen then
Enginerrrd 7y ago
This is dangerously naieve and short-sighted. Look at how readily China already uses our own corporations against us. ESPN showed a map of china with the nine-dash-line. Hollywood won't dare to offend the Chinese government. Our tech companies are willingly censoring themselves. Our corporations influence our politicians, and China is exerting influence on our corporations. If they have access to an enormous volume of potential blackmail or datamining, you think they won't use that against us for political gains? They could blackmail a programmer to insert a subtle vulnerability into a piece of code by threatening to expose his extramarital affair, or threatening to tell his employer/family/friends what kind of porn he watches. Or they could easily datamine and target those with monetary issues to see who is vulnerable to a bribe. Or they could threaten to frame you for child porn using their backdoor access. This is from a government that isn't afraid to 'disappear' political dissidents, send people to "re-education" camps, harvest organs from their own people. You think they're going to be friendlier to American citizens?
- Aperocky 7y ago
  > You think they’re going to be friendlier to American citizens? Yes, because American citizens are none of their business. Law enforcement and prosecution on the other hand is very interested.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - bcrosby95 7y ago
    ...but US corporations are their business? China, and the US for that matter, will generally do what they think they can get away with to further their interests. Regardless of a bunch of imaginary lines drawn on a map.
  - frequentnapper 7y ago
    hm.. China backs their multinational corporations into competing with other businesses globally. For example TikTok or all the construction firms that compete in Africa, Asia, etc. Now let's imagine I am an American citizen/businessman competing with a Chinese businessman. I have a better product, better networks. Let's also imagine the scenario where the Chinese govt has more power and dominance than anybody else in the world. Do you still think an American citizen is none of their business? How about if an American citizen happens to write an article criticizing Chinese govt? What would happen in the above scenario?
- syshum 7y ago
  So then the solution is to ensure NO GOVERNMENT has the ability to spy on people Not to lambast china while excusing the US Government that requires that type of spying by law. Do you believe that the US Government is above " blackmail or data mining" or "won't use that against us for political gains", both of which has been proven to be true Everyone is Soo fucking afraid of foreign influence on our politics they ignore the domestic influence of the same nature. Personally I believe the NSA and CIA to be more dangerous to our liberties than China or Russia. As Lincoln said many many moons ago, If we lose our freedoms it will because we destroyed ourselves As far as the tech companies / Hollywood censoring because of china, for the product in china sure but they censor their products here because they want to, china is just a convenient excuse that naive people believe. It is a way to shit shift the blame "no no we did not want to, big bad china made us" bullshit
BrendanD 7y ago
In western countries you can, in general, publicly mock your leaders on the front steps of your legislature. Try dancing in a Winnie-the-Pooh costume in front of the Great Hall of the People and see what happens...
- zabana 7y ago
  Because in China is the power is indeed in the hands of the government. Not sure this is the case in the west anymore I'm afraid
  - jessaustin 7y ago
    I'm pretty sure China has a "deep state" too.
- CWuestefeld 7y ago
  publicly mock your leaders on the front steps of your legislature So long as those steps are designated as a "free speech zone".
  - dodobirdlord 7y ago
    Oh boy, the worst thing that will happen is that you might have to move a little ways down the street. Horrifying.
    - syshum 7y ago
      That is a naive view to look at a situation where an armed man is telling you at gunpoint to "move a little way down the street" with the implied ending to the statement being or I will shoot you, or forcibly remove you to an iron cage People always seem to forget, all government actions and regulations no matter how small are acts of violence. They are not voluntary and are backed by the threat of legal violence to anyone that dare resist.
      - unishark 7y ago

by syshum 7y ago

gruez 7y ago

That argument really only works if you're a political activist or even an average citizen. However, if you're a high level executive, defense contractor, or a high ranking government employee, do you really want the Chinese government to have access to your comms AND know your movements?

TwoBit 7y ago
So 98% of American citizens then.
syshum 7y ago
good thing I am just an average American citizen then

Enginerrrd 7y ago

This is dangerously naieve and short-sighted. Look at how readily China already uses our own corporations against us. ESPN showed a map of china with the nine-dash-line. Hollywood won't dare to offend the Chinese government. Our tech companies are willingly censoring themselves. Our corporations influence our politicians, and China is exerting influence on our corporations. If they have access to an enormous volume of potential blackmail or datamining, you think they won't use that against us for political gains? They could blackmail a programmer to insert a subtle vulnerability into a piece of code by threatening to expose his extramarital affair, or threatening to tell his employer/family/friends what kind of porn he watches. Or they could easily datamine and target those with monetary issues to see who is vulnerable to a bribe. Or they could threaten to frame you for child porn using their backdoor access. This is from a government that isn't afraid to 'disappear' political dissidents, send people to "re-education" camps, harvest organs from their own people. You think they're going to be friendlier to American citizens?

Aperocky 7y ago
> You think they’re going to be friendlier to American citizens? Yes, because American citizens are none of their business. Law enforcement and prosecution on the other hand is very interested.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- bcrosby95 7y ago
  ...but US corporations are their business? China, and the US for that matter, will generally do what they think they can get away with to further their interests. Regardless of a bunch of imaginary lines drawn on a map.
- frequentnapper 7y ago
  hm.. China backs their multinational corporations into competing with other businesses globally. For example TikTok or all the construction firms that compete in Africa, Asia, etc. Now let's imagine I am an American citizen/businessman competing with a Chinese businessman. I have a better product, better networks. Let's also imagine the scenario where the Chinese govt has more power and dominance than anybody else in the world. Do you still think an American citizen is none of their business? How about if an American citizen happens to write an article criticizing Chinese govt? What would happen in the above scenario?
syshum 7y ago
So then the solution is to ensure NO GOVERNMENT has the ability to spy on people Not to lambast china while excusing the US Government that requires that type of spying by law. Do you believe that the US Government is above " blackmail or data mining" or "won't use that against us for political gains", both of which has been proven to be true Everyone is Soo fucking afraid of foreign influence on our politics they ignore the domestic influence of the same nature. Personally I believe the NSA and CIA to be more dangerous to our liberties than China or Russia. As Lincoln said many many moons ago, If we lose our freedoms it will because we destroyed ourselves As far as the tech companies / Hollywood censoring because of china, for the product in china sure but they censor their products here because they want to, china is just a convenient excuse that naive people believe. It is a way to shit shift the blame "no no we did not want to, big bad china made us" bullshit

BrendanD 7y ago

In western countries you can, in general, publicly mock your leaders on the front steps of your legislature. Try dancing in a Winnie-the-Pooh costume in front of the Great Hall of the People and see what happens...

zabana 7y ago
Because in China is the power is indeed in the hands of the government. Not sure this is the case in the west anymore I'm afraid
- jessaustin 7y ago
  I'm pretty sure China has a "deep state" too.
CWuestefeld 7y ago
publicly mock your leaders on the front steps of your legislature So long as those steps are designated as a "free speech zone".
- dodobirdlord 7y ago
  Oh boy, the worst thing that will happen is that you might have to move a little ways down the street. Horrifying.
  - syshum 7y ago
    That is a naive view to look at a situation where an armed man is telling you at gunpoint to "move a little way down the street" with the implied ending to the statement being or I will shoot you, or forcibly remove you to an iron cage People always seem to forget, all government actions and regulations no matter how small are acts of violence. They are not voluntary and are backed by the threat of legal violence to anyone that dare resist.
    - unishark 7y ago