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As someone who developed their career from the comfort of their bedroom, I always find it very interesting to see people all over the world from different cultu

As someone who developed their career from the comfort of their bedroom, I always find it very interesting to see people all over the world from different cultures experiencing the same basic issues with this kind of work set up. I absolutely loved working from my bedroom for years. It was great (despite the common down falls like the ones listed here). My family used to make fun of me at parties and seasonal celebration "OH YOU'RE NOT IN YOUR PAJAMAS TODAY", but joke was on them after a couple of years - I was making 5 to 10 times what they were per year, and I was waking up at 8:50am with no commute. I eventually ended up investing in building my own "detached" office in the back yard - a dedicated space set up for working. This was by far the best thing I ever did. It created a visible boundary between home and work life, and I still didn't have to commute or work in any clothes other than my pajamas the majority of the time. I couldn't image going back to a bedroom now. But even more so, I can't imagine how painful it is for people to sit in traffic every day, stressing they might be late, burning money on fuel and their car, and waking up earlier than they really should. It's pretty reasonable to think you might spend $100 a week on a commute straight out of your own pocket. That money is gone forever. Now consider if you invest that money over 30 years in some low to medium risk areas and average 10 - 15% per year. That's a healthy addition to your retirement fund of around $1,500,000, plus a good amount of extra sleep. EDIT: Okay 15% is maybe a bit hopeful and lucky. But still 7 - 10% will make a difference in your retirement.

jbb123 7y ago
> low to medium risk areas and average 10 - 15% per year. Where can I get this return reliably at "low risk"?
- jonny383 7y ago
  Firstly, it was "low to medium" risk, not "low" risk. Secondly, pretty much any reputable ETF (or combination of ETF's) can quite easily achieve this over 30 years.
  - akavi 7y ago
    There is no reputable ETF that will give you 15% return. Even 10% real return is incredibly unlikely.
    - OJFord 7y ago
      I don't think 'unreputable' is fair - they're just a different (not 'low - medium'!) risk profile.
      - nuclearnice1 7y ago
        What tickers?
        atombender 7y ago
        Perhaps they're referring to leveraged ETFs like UPRO (Direxion Daily 3X Bull & Bear S&P) and TQQQ (ProShares UltraPro QQQ). Be advised that they are not designed to be held over more than a day, although with the current bull market, they have not actually been hit by the decay factor inherent to all leveraged ETFs. Other higher-risk ETFs would be things like solar/wind sector ETFs (e.g. TAN, FAN, PBW, IQCLN, QCLN, etc.) or bleeding-edge biotech (e.g. SBIO).
      - Kirby64 7y ago
        No, they're just non-existent. Anyone with a brokerage account had a ~20%+ return last year... it's over 30 years that matters. I'm sure there's SOME ETF that managed to do 15% returns over a 30 yr period, but that's just selection bias after the fact. It doesn't mean that ETF would do well this year, or next.
  - jbb123 7y ago
    Most ETFs have returned about 7-8 % average long term (before allowing for inflation). Not a bad return, but very different over 20 years from 10-15%
    - 7y ago
- poulsbohemian 7y ago
  There are places in the US where this is the rate of appreciation on real estate. While there are periodic setbacks (see: 2008-2012), real estate is remarkably stable across the country, especially in major cities. The small, somewhat rural area I live in had an average appreciation of 13% last year, which is not sustainable for this area but still indicative of the overall trend.
  - ticmasta 7y ago
    and you know lots of real estate deals that are low risk, pay 10-15% and available for participation @ $100 / week? >> an average appreciation of 13% last year, which is not sustainable for this area but still indicative of the overall trend. not sustainable but indicative of the overall trend? What does that even mean?
    - poulsbohemian 7y ago
      It means we aren't going to see 13% every year in my localized market, but we will see a continued upward march - where the data from the past 30 years bears that out. Other markets like Seattle, given the geography and current restrictions it isn't much of a jump to think you could average a 10% appreciation for the next decade. I don't recall anyone saying anything about participation @ $100 / week, so don't be flippant. The comment was made about low risk at 10-15%. If you had $100/week to spend, I'd put it in a drip and buy pharma stocks because there are many paying a sizable dividend, but I'm not your broker so get your own advice.
      - swiley 7y ago
        Ah real estate: the rent keeps going up and there’s no easy way for individuals to benefit from it.
  - voldacar 7y ago
    10-15% after property tax?
    - 7y ago
- newnewpdro 7y ago
  It doesn't seem difficult to avg +1% per month doing relatively basic trading in my experience. The challenge I have is remembering to actually care about it and do the trades, life gets too busy and before I realize it a month has gone by. But whenever I'm on top of it, 1% gains have been very easy over the past decade, I'm rarely in the market for more than a few hours. But I risk having a pile of cash to trade with I suppose, the dollar could crash. If you do +1% per month you're already +12%/yr, I consider 12%/yr the minimum acceptable yield for any kind of investment given how easy it seems to be to DIY.
  - MichaelDickens 7y ago
    1. The S&P 500 has returned about 14% per year over the past decade, so a return of 12% isn't particularly notable. 2. Market returns vary greatly from decade to decade, so we shouldn't necessarily expect this 14% rate of return to continue. (Most obviously, there were no recessions in the past decade, which is unusual.)
- TimTheTinker 7y ago
  I suggest buying low-fee domestic index-tracking ETFs like "Vanguard S&P 500 ETF" (VOO), using a low-fee brokerage app like M1 Finance. ... or not. Your situation may call for something else. Any specific suggestions people give you will likely sound unnecessarily specific and perhaps arbitrary, unless you have spent a lot of time learning about the modern investing landscape -- you really need to do that for yourself.
  - TeMPOraL 7y ago
    > you really need to do that for yourself And how to do that? Especially for those of us in Europe? That's one thing I can't get my head around. The ecosystem seems filled with scammers and financial advise salesmen, and my "scam alert" is running on constant overdrive whenever trying to look for any current and actionable educational material.
    - TimTheTinker 7y ago
      Here are a few starting points. - https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Getting_started_for_non-US_investors https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Getting_started_for_non-US_i... - (book) The Simple Path to Wealth by J. L. Collins - (Podcast) ChooseFI
    - charwalker 7y ago
      I have an account with Vanguard directly and research their funds when investing. Currently my US employer retirement fund partner has very low cost access to Vanguard funds I follow already so I am linked into that. It really depends on your goals and starting point. Avoiding management fees is one of my priorities as well as direct visibility of my accounts and numbers (all offered via Vanguard directly). There are a lot of great, free information sources. Some are directed at people who are paycheck t paycheck and need to start setting like $100/month aside while digging out of debt. Others focus on middle class style employer retirement plan+personal savings like for a down payment on a house. Others focus on those willing to toss thousands on what becomes a bet on the market and YOLO it (not recommended). I started by just looking at Vanguard funds and using open/free tools to understand terminology and get a grasp of the history or background like lessons learned.
vsareto 7y ago
There's really no other words for it: a six figure job from the comfort of your own home/office is fucking magic Everyone should get the chance to experience it.
- rjkennedy98 7y ago
  Yes, and some of us reject it. When you work with people you never or rarely meet in person loneliness can be a big issue. If you have addiction problems, having the freedom to drink, game, smoke, ect whenever you want can also be a huge issue. Yes, not having a commute can be great, but if you are young you can usually find apartments close to your work (I bike to work for instance). What I feel is best is having the flexibility to wfh when you want or feel its appropriate.
  - asdfman123 7y ago
    The best setup for me is like what I have at my current company, where I work from home most days and go into the office two days a week. It's enough time to get face time and get back on the same page with everyone, but with most of the benefits of working from home. Full time working from home wasn't great for me -- it felt isolating and I found myself running a lot more just to see other human beings. (Of course, running was good, but the motivation for it was kind of weird.) I'm shy and naturally form relationships with people I bump into regularly, but I still have no clue to how to do it intentionally, and I also feel uncomfortable practically living at coffee shops.
  - sailfast 7y ago
    The issue I find with "flexibility to work from home" is that if it's conditional / occasional then it's also an outlier, and you're not used to working that way. This is why most "telework" programs are weird - because people that are teleworking are seen as goofing off in their pajamas or somehow disconnected. If you're fully remote then you need to behave that way even when you're in an office environment. Sure, have in-person meetings when you can, but make sure remote folks are 100% present and enabled, otherwise those that choose to work from home will be less present - even in a healthy WFH culture. As for loneliness - a couple things help with that. First, get together in person for a week or so every quarter to link up. Second, you don't have to work from an office when you work remote. Third, working in the office starting out to understand the culture then going remote is helpful for networking / understanding the rhythm of those in the office if you do work with full-time office folks. Being within reach can be helpful but not required. I'm close enough to the office that I can go in for big meetings or in-person things without too much heads-up, but I'm not expected to be there, and I'm probably there once a month, max. As for addiction - clearly you gotta prioritize to make sure that stuff doesn't destroy your life. If remote work doesn't work for you, definitely don't do it. Doesn't mean it's not magic for many of us.
Ididntdothis 7y ago
“Now consider if you invest that money over 30 years in some low to medium risk areas and average 10 - 15% per year” How do you do that?
- Scarbutt 7y ago
  vanguard funds, but the good ones I have know of require a $500k initial investment.
  - tartoran 7y ago
    Why is the initial investment so high? Is there a reasoning behind it?
    - bkanber 7y ago
      He's talking about a specific class of funds that are sold generally to institutions. Think buying funds in "wholesale"; they have low fees, high minimums. Those same funds can be bought "retail" though, with normal fees and typical minimums ($3k-$10k).
  - mlrtime 7y ago
    which funds require this?
    - bkanber 7y ago
      He's talking about the "Admiral" class of funds which have lower fees but higher minimums. (And most are $50k min, not 500k). Most of these funds can be bought at lower minimums too, they just have higher fees.
      - inetsee 7y ago
        I'm invested in Vanguard 500 Index Fund Admiral Shares, and the minimum investment is $3000, with fees of 0.04%. Those are pretty low minimums, and seem to me to be exceptionally low fees, and the average annual return is 13.94% over the last 10 years (before taxes).
zrail 7y ago
> I eventually ended up investing in building my own "detached" office in the back yard This is the thing I want most in work life right now. I have a separate semi-dedicated office room but it splits time as the guest room and has basically no auditory separation the rest of the house including a 3yo and a 1yo. Edit: OP would you be willing to share pictures of your space? I love seeing how people set up separate office spaces.
zeroonetwothree 7y ago
My job is flexible and I could work from home 1-4 days/week. But I still come in 4 days. The socializing is something that I really find worth it. I’ve made a lot of friends at work, and it’s also just nice to discuss technical problems in person.
dwild 7y ago
> But even more so, I can't imagine how painful it is for people to sit in traffic every day, stressing they might be late, burning money on fuel and their car, and waking up earlier than they really should. It's not only cash spend directly, it's also time spend. I was spending 2h a day in public transit, but when I tried to do it in car, it came down to less than 45 minutes a day. The parking was quite expensive so I doubted, I was paying 150$ a month for my public transit pass, but the closest available parking would be 250$ a month. Lets round it up to 1h a day and say that a month is 4 weeks, I was spending 20 hours a month. For some absurd reasons, I wasn't considering my time stuck in movement as part of my job hours. By refusing to pay for the parking, I was essentially saying that my time was worth 5$ an hour. This is so weird that we all forget that our time lost while we go to work, is still part of our work time. Spending 2h a day in transit, that's accepting a 20% pay cut from the get go.
- tspike 7y ago
  Conversely, on public transit you can engage in other activities. When I take the train to work, it takes twice as long but I'm able to catch up on e-mails, take a nap, read a book, watch a show, etc. That's not possible while driving so I view it as a net time gain.
  - fjp 7y ago
    I think it comes down to preferences. I have never enjoyed reading, podcasts, or whatever else on cramped public transit, but I do enjoy the alone time of driving and I generally enjoy driving if it's not stop-and-go. That said, the overall amount of time I spend is still my first priority. I don't want to spend any significant portion of my life going to and from work. I live in Chicago so public transit is 100% the way to go since it's faster and many times cheaper than using a car.
sailfast 7y ago
Working in a different room (NOT your bedroom) is critically important to me. Sometimes it's fun to kick back and code, but the separate space that is yours, optimized for work, and assigned mentally to work is useful in that you can walk away from it and also leave your work behind. Going to bed at night with your laptop stashed close by does not inspire relaxation / restfulness.
- dionidium 7y ago
  I recently started working from home, which coincided with a move. This is the specific reason I insisted on a two-bedroom apartment. I think it's made a big difference. I was remote before this, but had a private office in a WeWork, which I went to everyday, even though it wasn't required. This kind of separation is crucial.
- PaulDavisThe1st 7y ago
  Last year we moved out of our old (large) home in Philadelphia, where I had stolen the back 1/3 of the separate garage to be my office. My commute was about 50 feet, but it was to a separate (physically, acoustically, psychically) building. Now we live in a lovely but much smaller house where I still have an office, but it is inside the house. We've been here for 9 months so far, and we have still not really figured out the details of how I can still "go to work" the way I used back in Philadelphia. My wife only has to speak here, somewhere in the house, and I can hear her. This may improve when some specific physical details are addressed, but I think they won't solve the whole problem, which is a psychological/emotional/relationship one: how to be in the same "space" as someone else but also make it clear that you're not available.
  - sailfast 7y ago
    Totally. This took us months to figure out, even after a lot of "hey this is gonna be hard" pre-planning. I started by sharing Rands' "Nerd in a cave" post among others talking about interruptions and remote work (https://randsinrepose.com/archives/a-nerd-in-a-cave/ https://randsinrepose.com/archives/a-nerd-in-a-cave/) - my reactions were... uh... not the most civil initially haha - but then mostly tried a number of things until we got to "as much as possible, please try to contact each other like we're in an office" which is a good convention. We figure out the schedule of the day before I head "in", we communicate via text, and if that fails typically it's a knock at the door just like in an office. I also mention when I have big meetings or other face-time meetings so there's awareness. That said, after all of that it was really the threshold for things that caused interruptions was what took the most adjusting. Most of the day I wear headphones and listen to music, which is helpful - you don't feel compelled to shout answers or run down and help unless the person asks. Eventually though we found our rhythm, and it works well. And we both appreciate that when we need each other, we're right there, and that's great.
datingscientist 7y ago
but... dat time savings! Seriously, I'm in a major metro area and my commute is considered "not bad" by local standards... Working at an office costs me at least three hours a day: - 30 minutes of "getting ready" - 60 minutes of commute there, at rush hour - 30 minutes of lunch (usually just grab a sandwich at home) - 60 minute return commute at rush hour Bonus Time Savings: Popping on a headset and taking a walk around the neighborhood during low-participation conference calls and one-on-one discussions (I'm a manager). I can flip 30 - 60 minutes a day into "dual use" time (work + exercise)...
- foxyv 7y ago
  Don't forget the fact that you don't have to buy/rent a home in the more expensive areas of a city. Meaning the money you make is money you can keep and speed up your retirement savings.
- Solvitieg 7y ago
  You drive home to get lunch?
  - datingscientist 7y ago
    Leave the office and come back. But if you look at the total time, it adds up.
dionidium 7y ago
> I eventually ended up investing in building my own "detached" office in the back yard I want to know more about this!
- chrisjc 7y ago
  Same. Would love some pics or some advice about what you've done to make this a place that is conducive to getting work done.
tikiman163 7y ago
I think you've no idea what commuting costs anymore. 100 a week would be absolutely ridiculous. If the company provides parking you're looking at around 70 per month. If you have to pay for parking that might be as much as 250 per month, so still way below 100 per week. This kind of contribution certainly adds up, but you're not looking at 1 million in retirement funds. Also, you built yourself a detached office, which isn't uncommon and you frequently needed to purchase office supplies and I'm guessing your own hardware and computer software. That's a substantial initial overhead that eats away at how much you might be saving by working from home. Also, consider that many companies now allow employees to work from home for part of every week while still supplying hardware and office supplies. That 250/70 per month commuting cost is down to about 150/40. Just accounting for the expense of building your home office you could already be in the hole compared to people commuting only some of the time for the same job. Also, none of this accounts for the additional considerations office's typically provide like free lunches and social/professional networking opportunities. Personally, I'm a software developer so I can pretty much decide for myself if I want a job that allows me to work from home, and after doing the real math, I found you can basically go either way and expect roughly the same financial outcome, so the real choice is about what you actually want. I like the social aspects, so I take jobs where I can come in and expect coworkers to be present. What you want may be different, but neither option is inherently more advantageous.
- HammockTester 7y ago
  If you use the IRS standard rate of $.58 per mile as the cost of driving, then if you have a ~17 mile commute (each way), you'd expect to spend about $100 per week on average. That doesn't include the opportunity cost of your time or parking. A quick googling suggests that the average driving commute is 16 miles so $100/week seems like a reasonable estimate (again assuming parking is free and you value your time at $0/hr).
mendeza 7y ago
How did you teach yourself structuring large projects and test driven development? Did you have any senior engineers mentor you when you just started, or did you just force yourself to pick important skills in software development. I ask because I work remotely a lot of the time, and I am skilled in creating a solution, but I am always worried about if it will be maintainable over time and not be overwhelming when I add features.

jbb123 7y ago

> low to medium risk areas and average 10 - 15% per year. Where can I get this return reliably at "low risk"?

jonny383 7y ago
Firstly, it was "low to medium" risk, not "low" risk. Secondly, pretty much any reputable ETF (or combination of ETF's) can quite easily achieve this over 30 years.
- akavi 7y ago
  There is no reputable ETF that will give you 15% return. Even 10% real return is incredibly unlikely.
  - OJFord 7y ago
    I don't think 'unreputable' is fair - they're just a different (not 'low - medium'!) risk profile.
    - nuclearnice1 7y ago
      What tickers?
      - atombender 7y ago
        Perhaps they're referring to leveraged ETFs like UPRO (Direxion Daily 3X Bull & Bear S&P) and TQQQ (ProShares UltraPro QQQ). Be advised that they are not designed to be held over more than a day, although with the current bull market, they have not actually been hit by the decay factor inherent to all leveraged ETFs. Other higher-risk ETFs would be things like solar/wind sector ETFs (e.g. TAN, FAN, PBW, IQCLN, QCLN, etc.) or bleeding-edge biotech (e.g. SBIO).
    - Kirby64 7y ago
      No, they're just non-existent. Anyone with a brokerage account had a ~20%+ return last year... it's over 30 years that matters. I'm sure there's SOME ETF that managed to do 15% returns over a 30 yr period, but that's just selection bias after the fact. It doesn't mean that ETF would do well this year, or next.
- jbb123 7y ago
  Most ETFs have returned about 7-8 % average long term (before allowing for inflation). Not a bad return, but very different over 20 years from 10-15%
  - 7y ago
poulsbohemian 7y ago
There are places in the US where this is the rate of appreciation on real estate. While there are periodic setbacks (see: 2008-2012), real estate is remarkably stable across the country, especially in major cities. The small, somewhat rural area I live in had an average appreciation of 13% last year, which is not sustainable for this area but still indicative of the overall trend.
- ticmasta 7y ago
  and you know lots of real estate deals that are low risk, pay 10-15% and available for participation @ $100 / week? >> an average appreciation of 13% last year, which is not sustainable for this area but still indicative of the overall trend. not sustainable but indicative of the overall trend? What does that even mean?
  - poulsbohemian 7y ago
    It means we aren't going to see 13% every year in my localized market, but we will see a continued upward march - where the data from the past 30 years bears that out. Other markets like Seattle, given the geography and current restrictions it isn't much of a jump to think you could average a 10% appreciation for the next decade. I don't recall anyone saying anything about participation @ $100 / week, so don't be flippant. The comment was made about low risk at 10-15%. If you had $100/week to spend, I'd put it in a drip and buy pharma stocks because there are many paying a sizable dividend, but I'm not your broker so get your own advice.
    - swiley 7y ago
      Ah real estate: the rent keeps going up and there’s no easy way for individuals to benefit from it.
- voldacar 7y ago
  10-15% after property tax?
  - 7y ago
newnewpdro 7y ago
It doesn't seem difficult to avg +1% per month doing relatively basic trading in my experience. The challenge I have is remembering to actually care about it and do the trades, life gets too busy and before I realize it a month has gone by. But whenever I'm on top of it, 1% gains have been very easy over the past decade, I'm rarely in the market for more than a few hours. But I risk having a pile of cash to trade with I suppose, the dollar could crash. If you do +1% per month you're already +12%/yr, I consider 12%/yr the minimum acceptable yield for any kind of investment given how easy it seems to be to DIY.
- MichaelDickens 7y ago
  1. The S&P 500 has returned about 14% per year over the past decade, so a return of 12% isn't particularly notable. 2. Market returns vary greatly from decade to decade, so we shouldn't necessarily expect this 14% rate of return to continue. (Most obviously, there were no recessions in the past decade, which is unusual.)
TimTheTinker 7y ago
I suggest buying low-fee domestic index-tracking ETFs like "Vanguard S&P 500 ETF" (VOO), using a low-fee brokerage app like M1 Finance. ... or not. Your situation may call for something else. Any specific suggestions people give you will likely sound unnecessarily specific and perhaps arbitrary, unless you have spent a lot of time learning about the modern investing landscape -- you really need to do that for yourself.
- TeMPOraL 7y ago
  > you really need to do that for yourself And how to do that? Especially for those of us in Europe? That's one thing I can't get my head around. The ecosystem seems filled with scammers and financial advise salesmen, and my "scam alert" is running on constant overdrive whenever trying to look for any current and actionable educational material.
  - TimTheTinker 7y ago
    Here are a few starting points. - https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Getting_started_for_non-US_investors https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Getting_started_for_non-US_i... - (book) The Simple Path to Wealth by J. L. Collins - (Podcast) ChooseFI
  - charwalker 7y ago
    I have an account with Vanguard directly and research their funds when investing. Currently my US employer retirement fund partner has very low cost access to Vanguard funds I follow already so I am linked into that. It really depends on your goals and starting point. Avoiding management fees is one of my priorities as well as direct visibility of my accounts and numbers (all offered via Vanguard directly). There are a lot of great, free information sources. Some are directed at people who are paycheck t paycheck and need to start setting like $100/month aside while digging out of debt. Others focus on middle class style employer retirement plan+personal savings like for a down payment on a house. Others focus on those willing to toss thousands on what becomes a bet on the market and YOLO it (not recommended). I started by just looking at Vanguard funds and using open/free tools to understand terminology and get a grasp of the history or background like lessons learned.

vsareto 7y ago

There's really no other words for it: a six figure job from the comfort of your own home/office is fucking magic Everyone should get the chance to experience it.

rjkennedy98 7y ago
Yes, and some of us reject it. When you work with people you never or rarely meet in person loneliness can be a big issue. If you have addiction problems, having the freedom to drink, game, smoke, ect whenever you want can also be a huge issue. Yes, not having a commute can be great, but if you are young you can usually find apartments close to your work (I bike to work for instance). What I feel is best is having the flexibility to wfh when you want or feel its appropriate.
- asdfman123 7y ago
  The best setup for me is like what I have at my current company, where I work from home most days and go into the office two days a week. It's enough time to get face time and get back on the same page with everyone, but with most of the benefits of working from home. Full time working from home wasn't great for me -- it felt isolating and I found myself running a lot more just to see other human beings. (Of course, running was good, but the motivation for it was kind of weird.) I'm shy and naturally form relationships with people I bump into regularly, but I still have no clue to how to do it intentionally, and I also feel uncomfortable practically living at coffee shops.
- sailfast 7y ago
  The issue I find with "flexibility to work from home" is that if it's conditional / occasional then it's also an outlier, and you're not used to working that way. This is why most "telework" programs are weird - because people that are teleworking are seen as goofing off in their pajamas or somehow disconnected. If you're fully remote then you need to behave that way even when you're in an office environment. Sure, have in-person meetings when you can, but make sure remote folks are 100% present and enabled, otherwise those that choose to work from home will be less present - even in a healthy WFH culture. As for loneliness - a couple things help with that. First, get together in person for a week or so every quarter to link up. Second, you don't have to work from an office when you work remote. Third, working in the office starting out to understand the culture then going remote is helpful for networking / understanding the rhythm of those in the office if you do work with full-time office folks. Being within reach can be helpful but not required. I'm close enough to the office that I can go in for big meetings or in-person things without too much heads-up, but I'm not expected to be there, and I'm probably there once a month, max. As for addiction - clearly you gotta prioritize to make sure that stuff doesn't destroy your life. If remote work doesn't work for you, definitely don't do it. Doesn't mean it's not magic for many of us.

Ididntdothis 7y ago

“Now consider if you invest that money over 30 years in some low to medium risk areas and average 10 - 15% per year” How do you do that?

Scarbutt 7y ago
vanguard funds, but the good ones I have know of require a $500k initial investment.
- tartoran 7y ago
  Why is the initial investment so high? Is there a reasoning behind it?
  - bkanber 7y ago
    He's talking about a specific class of funds that are sold generally to institutions. Think buying funds in "wholesale"; they have low fees, high minimums. Those same funds can be bought "retail" though, with normal fees and typical minimums ($3k-$10k).
- mlrtime 7y ago
  which funds require this?
  - bkanber 7y ago
    He's talking about the "Admiral" class of funds which have lower fees but higher minimums. (And most are $50k min, not 500k). Most of these funds can be bought at lower minimums too, they just have higher fees.
    - inetsee 7y ago
      I'm invested in Vanguard 500 Index Fund Admiral Shares, and the minimum investment is $3000, with fees of 0.04%. Those are pretty low minimums, and seem to me to be exceptionally low fees, and the average annual return is 13.94% over the last 10 years (before taxes).

zrail 7y ago

> I eventually ended up investing in building my own "detached" office in the back yard This is the thing I want most in work life right now. I have a separate semi-dedicated office room but it splits time as the guest room and has basically no auditory separation the rest of the house including a 3yo and a 1yo. Edit: OP would you be willing to share pictures of your space? I love seeing how people set up separate office spaces.

zeroonetwothree 7y ago

My job is flexible and I could work from home 1-4 days/week. But I still come in 4 days. The socializing is something that I really find worth it. I’ve made a lot of friends at work, and it’s also just nice to discuss technical problems in person.

dwild 7y ago

> But even more so, I can't imagine how painful it is for people to sit in traffic every day, stressing they might be late, burning money on fuel and their car, and waking up earlier than they really should. It's not only cash spend directly, it's also time spend. I was spending 2h a day in public transit, but when I tried to do it in car, it came down to less than 45 minutes a day. The parking was quite expensive so I doubted, I was paying 150$ a month for my public transit pass, but the closest available parking would be 250$ a month. Lets round it up to 1h a day and say that a month is 4 weeks, I was spending 20 hours a month. For some absurd reasons, I wasn't considering my time stuck in movement as part of my job hours. By refusing to pay for the parking, I was essentially saying that my time was worth 5$ an hour. This is so weird that we all forget that our time lost while we go to work, is still part of our work time. Spending 2h a day in transit, that's accepting a 20% pay cut from the get go.

tspike 7y ago
Conversely, on public transit you can engage in other activities. When I take the train to work, it takes twice as long but I'm able to catch up on e-mails, take a nap, read a book, watch a show, etc. That's not possible while driving so I view it as a net time gain.
- fjp 7y ago
  I think it comes down to preferences. I have never enjoyed reading, podcasts, or whatever else on cramped public transit, but I do enjoy the alone time of driving and I generally enjoy driving if it's not stop-and-go. That said, the overall amount of time I spend is still my first priority. I don't want to spend any significant portion of my life going to and from work. I live in Chicago so public transit is 100% the way to go since it's faster and many times cheaper than using a car.

sailfast 7y ago

Working in a different room (NOT your bedroom) is critically important to me. Sometimes it's fun to kick back and code, but the separate space that is yours, optimized for work, and assigned mentally to work is useful in that you can walk away from it and also leave your work behind. Going to bed at night with your laptop stashed close by does not inspire relaxation / restfulness.

dionidium 7y ago
I recently started working from home, which coincided with a move. This is the specific reason I insisted on a two-bedroom apartment. I think it's made a big difference. I was remote before this, but had a private office in a WeWork, which I went to everyday, even though it wasn't required. This kind of separation is crucial.
PaulDavisThe1st 7y ago
Last year we moved out of our old (large) home in Philadelphia, where I had stolen the back 1/3 of the separate garage to be my office. My commute was about 50 feet, but it was to a separate (physically, acoustically, psychically) building. Now we live in a lovely but much smaller house where I still have an office, but it is inside the house. We've been here for 9 months so far, and we have still not really figured out the details of how I can still "go to work" the way I used back in Philadelphia. My wife only has to speak here, somewhere in the house, and I can hear her. This may improve when some specific physical details are addressed, but I think they won't solve the whole problem, which is a psychological/emotional/relationship one: how to be in the same "space" as someone else but also make it clear that you're not available.
- sailfast 7y ago
  Totally. This took us months to figure out, even after a lot of "hey this is gonna be hard" pre-planning. I started by sharing Rands' "Nerd in a cave" post among others talking about interruptions and remote work (https://randsinrepose.com/archives/a-nerd-in-a-cave/ https://randsinrepose.com/archives/a-nerd-in-a-cave/) - my reactions were... uh... not the most civil initially haha - but then mostly tried a number of things until we got to "as much as possible, please try to contact each other like we're in an office" which is a good convention. We figure out the schedule of the day before I head "in", we communicate via text, and if that fails typically it's a knock at the door just like in an office. I also mention when I have big meetings or other face-time meetings so there's awareness. That said, after all of that it was really the threshold for things that caused interruptions was what took the most adjusting. Most of the day I wear headphones and listen to music, which is helpful - you don't feel compelled to shout answers or run down and help unless the person asks. Eventually though we found our rhythm, and it works well. And we both appreciate that when we need each other, we're right there, and that's great.

datingscientist 7y ago

but... dat time savings! Seriously, I'm in a major metro area and my commute is considered "not bad" by local standards... Working at an office costs me at least three hours a day: - 30 minutes of "getting ready" - 60 minutes of commute there, at rush hour - 30 minutes of lunch (usually just grab a sandwich at home) - 60 minute return commute at rush hour Bonus Time Savings: Popping on a headset and taking a walk around the neighborhood during low-participation conference calls and one-on-one discussions (I'm a manager). I can flip 30 - 60 minutes a day into "dual use" time (work + exercise)...

foxyv 7y ago
Don't forget the fact that you don't have to buy/rent a home in the more expensive areas of a city. Meaning the money you make is money you can keep and speed up your retirement savings.
Solvitieg 7y ago
You drive home to get lunch?
- datingscientist 7y ago
  Leave the office and come back. But if you look at the total time, it adds up.

dionidium 7y ago

> I eventually ended up investing in building my own "detached" office in the back yard I want to know more about this!

chrisjc 7y ago
Same. Would love some pics or some advice about what you've done to make this a place that is conducive to getting work done.

tikiman163 7y ago

I think you've no idea what commuting costs anymore. 100 a week would be absolutely ridiculous. If the company provides parking you're looking at around 70 per month. If you have to pay for parking that might be as much as 250 per month, so still way below 100 per week. This kind of contribution certainly adds up, but you're not looking at 1 million in retirement funds. Also, you built yourself a detached office, which isn't uncommon and you frequently needed to purchase office supplies and I'm guessing your own hardware and computer software. That's a substantial initial overhead that eats away at how much you might be saving by working from home. Also, consider that many companies now allow employees to work from home for part of every week while still supplying hardware and office supplies. That 250/70 per month commuting cost is down to about 150/40. Just accounting for the expense of building your home office you could already be in the hole compared to people commuting only some of the time for the same job. Also, none of this accounts for the additional considerations office's typically provide like free lunches and social/professional networking opportunities. Personally, I'm a software developer so I can pretty much decide for myself if I want a job that allows me to work from home, and after doing the real math, I found you can basically go either way and expect roughly the same financial outcome, so the real choice is about what you actually want. I like the social aspects, so I take jobs where I can come in and expect coworkers to be present. What you want may be different, but neither option is inherently more advantageous.

HammockTester 7y ago
If you use the IRS standard rate of $.58 per mile as the cost of driving, then if you have a ~17 mile commute (each way), you'd expect to spend about $100 per week on average. That doesn't include the opportunity cost of your time or parking. A quick googling suggests that the average driving commute is 16 miles so $100/week seems like a reasonable estimate (again assuming parking is free and you value your time at $0/hr).

mendeza 7y ago

How did you teach yourself structuring large projects and test driven development? Did you have any senior engineers mentor you when you just started, or did you just force yourself to pick important skills in software development. I ask because I work remotely a lot of the time, and I am skilled in creating a solution, but I am always worried about if it will be maintainable over time and not be overwhelming when I add features.