6 ms·

> Linux desktop is still a buggy affair. Even gnome isn’t as bad as OS X IMO. If you use a decent DE like fvwm or xfce it’s much better. The problem everyone

by swiley 7y ago

> Linux desktop is still a buggy affair. Even gnome isn’t as bad as OS X IMO. If you use a decent DE like fvwm or xfce it’s much better. The problem everyone has is that their favorite mac software doesn’t have a Linux port and a lot of the alternatives are less sexy (and sometimes way worse.)

steeleduncan 7y ago
Catalina's slew of bugs broke me, and I swapped my 2014 11 inch macbook air to Ubuntu 19.10 in November. Its not perfect, but I wouldn't go back. - It is very quick in comparison to macOS, it makes the 6 year old feel hardware new - Your experience of bugs depends on what you do of course, but from my personal experience it is much stabler than macOS - A lot of what I use is terminal based, or electron based, so I really don't have an issue with not finding software - The install process was seamless. I realise this is truer for old hardware than it is for new hardware, but given that my 2014 air was getting unuseably laggy with macOS, the choice was between buying a new, extremely expensive macbook to get acceptable performance, or using my old hardware with linux. If I were to replace it, I would do so by buying a cheaper, linux supporting laptop rather than paying for a macbook Despite the great work done on the linux desktop, Ubuntu 19.10 doesn't quite measure up to the 10.5-10.7 "golden era" of stable, elegant, developer friendly macOS for me, but it comes a lot closer than the last few macOS versions have.
tonyedgecombe 7y ago
I persisted with Linux for a year but eventually gave up because of the poor high-dpi support, mostly with applications. In some ways I wish I had never seen a retina screen, then I wouldn't know what I'm missing.
- pimeys 7y ago
  I'm using a 4k screen with my sway tiling desktop. Enlarge the fonts from alacritty and emacs, set fractional scaling to 1.5 from Firefox and you're done.
  - danieldk 7y ago
    Except that Xwayland applications are either tiny or scaled up and blurry. I guess it's acceptable if you have a large (e.g. 30") screen. But on a 24" 4k screen both options are very unpleasant. Also, I don't think Sway is an alternative for most macOS desktop users.
    - pimeys 7y ago
      I'm an old macOS user. I downsized what I need from a desktop and I'm very happy with my minimal setup. I'm not using scaling from sway/wayland, but I basically just use emacs, firefox and alacritty, so changing those apps is all I need to do to get scaling done.
- nizmow 7y ago
  I've actually switched back to using exclusively "low" DPI screens because I feel like it's just not worth the hassle. They're high enough resolution for me, maybe if I was a photographer or into video I'd care more about hidpi, but I just don't see the point.
danieldk 7y ago
Even gnome isn’t as bad as OS X IMO. It's many times worse, and I say this as a daily GNOME user. Well, perhaps not in terms of bugs ;). Qualms compared to macOS: - They removed menus (with discoverable shortcuts) and replaced them by stupid hamburger menus that miss a lot of the prior functionality. (If menus bother you, just move them into the system tray.) - They removed system tray icons. There are extensions, but they only work for a subset of the applications that I use and quite badly. - Keyboard shortcuts are inconsistent between applications. - Inconsistent ways to make applications full-screen. - Removed desktop icons (I use the desktop as a short-term cache of stuff that I want to be able to open quickly). - A lot of things are not configure through the settings applications. Some additional things can be configured through gnome-tweaks. - Much worse noise cancellation than macOS. - Video playback is not hardware accelerated in web browsers (not GNOME's fault). - The GNOME applications are much less usable. E.g. most (all?) types of remote calendars can not be added to Gnome Calendar. You have to go through some archaic (compared to macOS) setup in Evolution (in my case I had to add multiple calendars from one account one by one). Evince misses a lot of basic operations that Preview support (such as reordering pages in a PDF. I use GNOME because it is the only traditional desktop environment that has great Wayland and HiDPI support. Linux is great, but the Linux desktop is a tire fire compared to macOS.
- harry8 7y ago
  Strong disagree there. When forced to use Apple or Microsoft desktop environments i find they are a "tire fire" compared to stock gnome. Really. Not in the same ballpark of usability, polish, aesthetics, quality control. Does it work the way you're used to? For me, yes. I'm used to it and used to a workflow using it. If you're used to something else, then no, you're not. The end.
  - danieldk 7y ago
    Not in the same ballpark of usability, polish, aesthetics, quality control. We must be living in different universes ;). I cannot comment on Microsoft Windows, since I have never really used it. I'm used to it and used to a workflow using it. If you're used to something else, then no, you're not. For reference: I have used macOS since 2007 and GNOME since before 1.0.0. Mid 2000s GNOME 2 was really awesome. Sure, it had its problems, but from the perspective of usability and completeness it was awesome. For years Sun Microsystems poured money into GNOME 2 usability studies and improvements, because it was supposed to replace CDE on Solaris. Edit: should add that I am waiting until KDE on Wayland is well supported on NixOS. I have recently tried KDE on X.org a bit and it seems like it would be a leap forward for me.
christophilus 7y ago
The reason I’m still on Mac is 5k monitor support. If not for that, I’d be running Solus.

by swiley 7y ago

steeleduncan 7y ago

Catalina's slew of bugs broke me, and I swapped my 2014 11 inch macbook air to Ubuntu 19.10 in November. Its not perfect, but I wouldn't go back. - It is very quick in comparison to macOS, it makes the 6 year old feel hardware new - Your experience of bugs depends on what you do of course, but from my personal experience it is much stabler than macOS - A lot of what I use is terminal based, or electron based, so I really don't have an issue with not finding software - The install process was seamless. I realise this is truer for old hardware than it is for new hardware, but given that my 2014 air was getting unuseably laggy with macOS, the choice was between buying a new, extremely expensive macbook to get acceptable performance, or using my old hardware with linux. If I were to replace it, I would do so by buying a cheaper, linux supporting laptop rather than paying for a macbook Despite the great work done on the linux desktop, Ubuntu 19.10 doesn't quite measure up to the 10.5-10.7 "golden era" of stable, elegant, developer friendly macOS for me, but it comes a lot closer than the last few macOS versions have.

tonyedgecombe 7y ago

I persisted with Linux for a year but eventually gave up because of the poor high-dpi support, mostly with applications. In some ways I wish I had never seen a retina screen, then I wouldn't know what I'm missing.

pimeys 7y ago
I'm using a 4k screen with my sway tiling desktop. Enlarge the fonts from alacritty and emacs, set fractional scaling to 1.5 from Firefox and you're done.
- danieldk 7y ago
  Except that Xwayland applications are either tiny or scaled up and blurry. I guess it's acceptable if you have a large (e.g. 30") screen. But on a 24" 4k screen both options are very unpleasant. Also, I don't think Sway is an alternative for most macOS desktop users.
  - pimeys 7y ago
    I'm an old macOS user. I downsized what I need from a desktop and I'm very happy with my minimal setup. I'm not using scaling from sway/wayland, but I basically just use emacs, firefox and alacritty, so changing those apps is all I need to do to get scaling done.
nizmow 7y ago
I've actually switched back to using exclusively "low" DPI screens because I feel like it's just not worth the hassle. They're high enough resolution for me, maybe if I was a photographer or into video I'd care more about hidpi, but I just don't see the point.

danieldk 7y ago

Even gnome isn’t as bad as OS X IMO. It's many times worse, and I say this as a daily GNOME user. Well, perhaps not in terms of bugs ;). Qualms compared to macOS: - They removed menus (with discoverable shortcuts) and replaced them by stupid hamburger menus that miss a lot of the prior functionality. (If menus bother you, just move them into the system tray.) - They removed system tray icons. There are extensions, but they only work for a subset of the applications that I use and quite badly. - Keyboard shortcuts are inconsistent between applications. - Inconsistent ways to make applications full-screen. - Removed desktop icons (I use the desktop as a short-term cache of stuff that I want to be able to open quickly). - A lot of things are not configure through the settings applications. Some additional things can be configured through gnome-tweaks. - Much worse noise cancellation than macOS. - Video playback is not hardware accelerated in web browsers (not GNOME's fault). - The GNOME applications are much less usable. E.g. most (all?) types of remote calendars can not be added to Gnome Calendar. You have to go through some archaic (compared to macOS) setup in Evolution (in my case I had to add multiple calendars from one account one by one). Evince misses a lot of basic operations that Preview support (such as reordering pages in a PDF. I use GNOME because it is the only traditional desktop environment that has great Wayland and HiDPI support. Linux is great, but the Linux desktop is a tire fire compared to macOS.

harry8 7y ago
Strong disagree there. When forced to use Apple or Microsoft desktop environments i find they are a "tire fire" compared to stock gnome. Really. Not in the same ballpark of usability, polish, aesthetics, quality control. Does it work the way you're used to? For me, yes. I'm used to it and used to a workflow using it. If you're used to something else, then no, you're not. The end.
- danieldk 7y ago
  Not in the same ballpark of usability, polish, aesthetics, quality control. We must be living in different universes ;). I cannot comment on Microsoft Windows, since I have never really used it. I'm used to it and used to a workflow using it. If you're used to something else, then no, you're not. For reference: I have used macOS since 2007 and GNOME since before 1.0.0. Mid 2000s GNOME 2 was really awesome. Sure, it had its problems, but from the perspective of usability and completeness it was awesome. For years Sun Microsystems poured money into GNOME 2 usability studies and improvements, because it was supposed to replace CDE on Solaris. Edit: should add that I am waiting until KDE on Wayland is well supported on NixOS. I have recently tried KDE on X.org a bit and it seems like it would be a leap forward for me.

christophilus 7y ago

The reason I’m still on Mac is 5k monitor support. If not for that, I’d be running Solus.