4 ms·

ASK Hn: Funding a "small" startup in London

28 points by malux85 16y ago

Hi everyone I have just arrived in London and have created a web startup - I have a couple of products that I think can generate income, but am focusing on the strongest one first ... I am looking for funding to quit the 9-5 job and concentrate on the main product. The funding I am looking for is about 20,000 pounds ... can anyone point me in the right direction? I am unsure if I should look for an investor to gain contacts etc, or if I should approach the banks for a loan? Any comments and advice appreciated!

fredoliveira 16y ago
You could probably try getting started by reaching out to some EU-focused angel investors - there's quite a few in london. I keep a list on Twitter with a few who are active: http://twitter.com/#!/list/f/eu-angels http://twitter.com/#!/list/f/eu-angels There's also AngelList for Europe here: http://angel.co/europe http://angel.co/europe There are also other options. Since you're aiming for 20k, which is not a high amount, you may want to try the 3 f's first - Friends, Family, Fools. A personal loan might work too. It boils down to how much risk you're willing to take. (I'd go with angels first, because investing is what they do and they can help you more than just providing you with cash.)
- malux85 16y ago
  angel.co ! That was the site I was after ... will check it out, thanks :)
- gstar 16y ago
  And definitely apply to Seedcamp, €50k funding is available, and it's by all accounts an excellent programme.
JacobAldridge 16y ago
Firstly, this is not financial advice, I'm not a vc (I am a business coach, fwiw) etc. See these as generalisations, not guaranteed cases for any individual situation (such as your startup). As a general guide, Banks won't lend money against a start-up business. The business is not a secured asset at this point. For £20K, you may be able to get a loan against other assets you have (such as a house, though if you've just arrived you probably forgot to pack one of those) or even an unsecured personal loan (more difficult, particularly up to £20K, and I've just experienced my own no-credit-history fun having moved to London so I know there aren't many organisations or banks with lazy cash to splash around). Start-up seed funding is often called the 'Friends, Family, and Fools' round. Since £20K is a small amount (compared, of course, to bigger amounts), it may be possible to borrow it from friends and family who know and trust you, or 'fools' who don't know you but decide to trust you anyway. This is, generally, your best bet for amounts of this size. You mention looking to gain contacts - is it possible to leverage the contacts you already have? Finally, in regards to taking investment from someone who is an investor. They will probably want to see a business plan - more specifically, what are you going to do with £20K? I'd say your lifestyle will be different to mine (I have, for instance, an international mortgage and a beautiful wife to part-fund) - it costs us just under £5K/month to live reasonably well in London, and a single in a shared flat could probably get by for £2K - do you want £20K so you can live for ten months, or is some of that specifically earmarked for marketing, training, software programmes etc? It may be easier to find an investor for slightly more money, if you have some specific investments planned, than for a smaller amount designed solely to rescue you from 9-5. Once again, these are all generalisations. You already have the web startup created and a couple of products - that may be all you need, with the right introduction, to progress. Oh - I'm always happy to make time for coffee to discuss - see my profile for contact details.
- quii 16y ago
  Just to note, I live in central London (as in Zone 1), on around £1500 a month quite comfortably. £2k a month is excessive
  - JacobAldridge 16y ago
    Great data point (I was actually going to ask for one, but it would have made my point a little unweildy). I certainly do live a pretty good lifestyle, plus some good debt (eg, my share of rent + mortgage is almost 1500 a month).
  - dalore 16y ago
    That's cause your in zone 1 as you've said. You don't have to pay for an expensive travelcard :)
  - candiru 16y ago
    Same here. I might be easily more frugal than the average, but I definitely have everything I need for around £1500 per month.
  - axod 16y ago
    quite comfortably? What sort of house do you have? :/
- malux85 16y ago
  Thank you for the excellent advice, and know my post was quite general, but you've hit the nail on the head with your comments. I would love to meet for a coffee sometime - will be in touch. P.s. I'm a kiwi!
  - JacobAldridge 16y ago
    P.s. I'm a kiwi Nobody's perfect. (Actually, I'm enjoying the fact that on this side of the world we're best friends, not mortal, sheep-tossing enemies.)
- csantini 16y ago
ig1 16y ago
Your best bet might be to apply to seed accelerators for that amount of money. £20,000 seems an odd amount of money to want to raise, accountancy and legal fees will probably eat up a decent chunk of that, if you're going after angels it might be easier to raise a large amount. What's your plan for spending that money? How far developed are you products and what markets are you working in? - if you're in the b2b space another option might be to approach potential customers and see if they're willing to finance you (or even if they can provide an letter of intent saying they intend to buy your product; you may be able to use that to get a bank loan). Another option could be to become a contractor for a while, 20k isn't a huge amount of money, you could easily earn that much money in 3-6 months (if you take payment through your company and re-invest it in your startup products it also means you won't have to pay any tax on it).
eftpotrm 16y ago
Do you really need to live in London? If we're talking the classic example here of ramen profitability, you can do that for about half as much cash by moving out along the train lines and commuting in when you need to. I'm about an hour from the city by a relatively reliable rail service, and weekly season tickets really aren't that expensive.
Robin_Message 16y ago
You could apply to http://springboard.com/ http://springboard.com/. It's a startup accelerator in Cambridge, which is a little cheaper than London and only an hour away by train if you ever do need to be there. Application deadline is this Sunday I believe, so ideal timing ;-)
hugoH 16y ago
why not get a 3-6 month contract, live normally, then use the surplus as runway funding? contracting rates in london are normally pretty good. that way, you don't risk financial ruin, and you can bootstrap yourself. (i did this succesfully over a period of 2-3 years, while not London I am UK. pm me if you like!)
- chargrilled 16y ago
  HN doesn't have private message functionality and you don't seem to have any contact details in your profile. Is there any other way of contacting you? =)
  - malux85 16y ago
    Hi all I use this address for gtalk IM only (don't mail it) .. so I dont mind if I get spam from sharing it here! Feel free to add me anybody, but remember I work a 9-5 and cant chat heaps during the day alain.richardt85@gmail.com Cheers Alain
MicahWedemeyer 16y ago
Any reason not to keep going as you are? Or, perhaps you could request to reduce your work time to 50%? This can be tough to do, but many places would rather negotiate than see you just walk out. Funding yourself (with job, contracts, etc.) is rarely discussed here, but it's a much more reliable way to get money than seeking investment. It's tough to find the time balance, but there's something to be said for having a basically endless runway.
- pbhjpbhj 16y ago
  >but there's something to be said for having a basically endless runway. That you never have any motivation to take off?
  - MicahWedemeyer 16y ago
    Sure, feel free to jump ship and go for it. Just make sure you've got more than 3 months saved up. Real businesses take time to build.
    - pbhjpbhj 16y ago
      >Real businesses take time to build. Word. But, time/money constraints can be a great motivator.
will_critchlow 16y ago
I'd love to chat. I may not be your 'fool' (see other comments) but I may know some. I'm based in central London. I have some contacts. One day I'd like to be making investments like this (he says, not really knowing what you're planning to do). Can you share more info privately?
- malux85 16y ago
  Yes absolutely, I'm just at work at the moment, but will send you my contact details (email + instant messenger etc) tonight, cheers :)
weesilmania 16y ago
I am a potential fool but would like to find out (a lot) more. I work centrally and live slightly north. Drop me a message and we'll chat.
- malux85 16y ago
  Hi there Cool let's chat :) email me on alain.richardt85@gmail.com and I'll send you much more info Alain
Julianhearn 16y ago
Why don't you make some thing you can make money from, then invest your own money in the start up idea? Either that or do I did and keep a full time job and work evenings and weekends until your startup matches your salary.

28 points by malux85 16y ago

fredoliveira 16y ago

You could probably try getting started by reaching out to some EU-focused angel investors - there's quite a few in london. I keep a list on Twitter with a few who are active: http://twitter.com/#!/list/f/eu-angels http://twitter.com/#!/list/f/eu-angels There's also AngelList for Europe here: http://angel.co/europe http://angel.co/europe There are also other options. Since you're aiming for 20k, which is not a high amount, you may want to try the 3 f's first - Friends, Family, Fools. A personal loan might work too. It boils down to how much risk you're willing to take. (I'd go with angels first, because investing is what they do and they can help you more than just providing you with cash.)

malux85 16y ago
angel.co ! That was the site I was after ... will check it out, thanks :)
gstar 16y ago
And definitely apply to Seedcamp, €50k funding is available, and it's by all accounts an excellent programme.

JacobAldridge 16y ago

Firstly, this is not financial advice, I'm not a vc (I am a business coach, fwiw) etc. See these as generalisations, not guaranteed cases for any individual situation (such as your startup). As a general guide, Banks won't lend money against a start-up business. The business is not a secured asset at this point. For £20K, you may be able to get a loan against other assets you have (such as a house, though if you've just arrived you probably forgot to pack one of those) or even an unsecured personal loan (more difficult, particularly up to £20K, and I've just experienced my own no-credit-history fun having moved to London so I know there aren't many organisations or banks with lazy cash to splash around). Start-up seed funding is often called the 'Friends, Family, and Fools' round. Since £20K is a small amount (compared, of course, to bigger amounts), it may be possible to borrow it from friends and family who know and trust you, or 'fools' who don't know you but decide to trust you anyway. This is, generally, your best bet for amounts of this size. You mention looking to gain contacts - is it possible to leverage the contacts you already have? Finally, in regards to taking investment from someone who is an investor. They will probably want to see a business plan - more specifically, what are you going to do with £20K? I'd say your lifestyle will be different to mine (I have, for instance, an international mortgage and a beautiful wife to part-fund) - it costs us just under £5K/month to live reasonably well in London, and a single in a shared flat could probably get by for £2K - do you want £20K so you can live for ten months, or is some of that specifically earmarked for marketing, training, software programmes etc? It may be easier to find an investor for slightly more money, if you have some specific investments planned, than for a smaller amount designed solely to rescue you from 9-5. Once again, these are all generalisations. You already have the web startup created and a couple of products - that may be all you need, with the right introduction, to progress. Oh - I'm always happy to make time for coffee to discuss - see my profile for contact details.

quii 16y ago
Just to note, I live in central London (as in Zone 1), on around £1500 a month quite comfortably. £2k a month is excessive
- JacobAldridge 16y ago
  Great data point (I was actually going to ask for one, but it would have made my point a little unweildy). I certainly do live a pretty good lifestyle, plus some good debt (eg, my share of rent + mortgage is almost 1500 a month).
- dalore 16y ago
  That's cause your in zone 1 as you've said. You don't have to pay for an expensive travelcard :)
- candiru 16y ago
  Same here. I might be easily more frugal than the average, but I definitely have everything I need for around £1500 per month.
- axod 16y ago
  quite comfortably? What sort of house do you have? :/
malux85 16y ago
Thank you for the excellent advice, and know my post was quite general, but you've hit the nail on the head with your comments. I would love to meet for a coffee sometime - will be in touch. P.s. I'm a kiwi!
- JacobAldridge 16y ago
  P.s. I'm a kiwi Nobody's perfect. (Actually, I'm enjoying the fact that on this side of the world we're best friends, not mortal, sheep-tossing enemies.)
csantini 16y ago

ig1 16y ago

Your best bet might be to apply to seed accelerators for that amount of money. £20,000 seems an odd amount of money to want to raise, accountancy and legal fees will probably eat up a decent chunk of that, if you're going after angels it might be easier to raise a large amount. What's your plan for spending that money? How far developed are you products and what markets are you working in? - if you're in the b2b space another option might be to approach potential customers and see if they're willing to finance you (or even if they can provide an letter of intent saying they intend to buy your product; you may be able to use that to get a bank loan). Another option could be to become a contractor for a while, 20k isn't a huge amount of money, you could easily earn that much money in 3-6 months (if you take payment through your company and re-invest it in your startup products it also means you won't have to pay any tax on it).

eftpotrm 16y ago

Do you really need to live in London? If we're talking the classic example here of ramen profitability, you can do that for about half as much cash by moving out along the train lines and commuting in when you need to. I'm about an hour from the city by a relatively reliable rail service, and weekly season tickets really aren't that expensive.

Robin_Message 16y ago

You could apply to http://springboard.com/ http://springboard.com/. It's a startup accelerator in Cambridge, which is a little cheaper than London and only an hour away by train if you ever do need to be there. Application deadline is this Sunday I believe, so ideal timing ;-)

hugoH 16y ago

why not get a 3-6 month contract, live normally, then use the surplus as runway funding? contracting rates in london are normally pretty good. that way, you don't risk financial ruin, and you can bootstrap yourself. (i did this succesfully over a period of 2-3 years, while not London I am UK. pm me if you like!)

chargrilled 16y ago
HN doesn't have private message functionality and you don't seem to have any contact details in your profile. Is there any other way of contacting you? =)
- malux85 16y ago
  Hi all I use this address for gtalk IM only (don't mail it) .. so I dont mind if I get spam from sharing it here! Feel free to add me anybody, but remember I work a 9-5 and cant chat heaps during the day alain.richardt85@gmail.com Cheers Alain

MicahWedemeyer 16y ago

Any reason not to keep going as you are? Or, perhaps you could request to reduce your work time to 50%? This can be tough to do, but many places would rather negotiate than see you just walk out. Funding yourself (with job, contracts, etc.) is rarely discussed here, but it's a much more reliable way to get money than seeking investment. It's tough to find the time balance, but there's something to be said for having a basically endless runway.

pbhjpbhj 16y ago
>but there's something to be said for having a basically endless runway. That you never have any motivation to take off?
- MicahWedemeyer 16y ago
  Sure, feel free to jump ship and go for it. Just make sure you've got more than 3 months saved up. Real businesses take time to build.
  - pbhjpbhj 16y ago
    >Real businesses take time to build. Word. But, time/money constraints can be a great motivator.

will_critchlow 16y ago

I'd love to chat. I may not be your 'fool' (see other comments) but I may know some. I'm based in central London. I have some contacts. One day I'd like to be making investments like this (he says, not really knowing what you're planning to do). Can you share more info privately?

malux85 16y ago
Yes absolutely, I'm just at work at the moment, but will send you my contact details (email + instant messenger etc) tonight, cheers :)

weesilmania 16y ago

I am a potential fool but would like to find out (a lot) more. I work centrally and live slightly north. Drop me a message and we'll chat.

malux85 16y ago
Hi there Cool let's chat :) email me on alain.richardt85@gmail.com and I'll send you much more info Alain

Julianhearn 16y ago

Why don't you make some thing you can make money from, then invest your own money in the start up idea? Either that or do I did and keep a full time job and work evenings and weekends until your startup matches your salary.