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I'm not sure that makes sense. The US could compel the devs to compromise their product but not keep them from issuing a cryptic statement and stopping work on

I'm not sure that makes sense. The US could compel the devs to compromise their product but not keep them from issuing a cryptic statement and stopping work on the product?

criddell 7y ago
It doesn't make sense for two reasons to me. For one, the government can't compel you to do work. That's slavery. Also, it's open source software. TrueCrypt going down didn't change the security landscape at all.
- turk73 7y ago
  On the face of it sure, but then the key people start having heart attacks and mysterious accidents and suddenly the problem goes away. And that's the world we live in.
- dboreham 7y ago
  They offer you a large contract to do <something>, then they require that <some guy> they nominate work with you on the project. That guy introduces the backdoor.
- SkyBelow 7y ago
  The government can. For example, take how the police will turn individuals into informants by getting them on trumped up drug charges and then offering them a deal if they work for the government, including engaging in acts that put them at risk of being killed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Rachel_Hoffman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Rachel_Hoffman The end result is "Work for us or go to prison."
- ceejayoz 7y ago
  > For one, the government can't compel you to do work. That's slavery. Slavery's perfectly legal. The 13th Amendment: "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penal_labor_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penal_labor_in_the_United_Stat...
  - criddell 7y ago
    Are you suggesting the TrueCrypt authors had been duly convicted of a crime?
    - brewdad 7y ago
      He's saying they easily could have been. See: Three Felonies a Day
    - ceejayoz 7y ago
      I am not. I am pointing out that the Constitutional provisions preventing slavery have a loophole big enough to drive an aircraft carrier through.
- kube-system 7y ago
  > For one, the government can't compel you to do work. That's slavery. That may be your personal opinion, but legally speaking, it is not true in any sense.
  - apodysophilia 7y ago
    It is also the argument that Apple used against the FBI in the San Bernardino case.
    - kube-system 7y ago
      I'm just taking issue with the quoted claim at face value, outside of the context. Consider for example, the legality of jury duty, conscription, subpoenas, taxation, traffic stops, etc. Government-compelled actions are common and legal.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- rebuilder 7y ago
  Like the government (of any given state) can't rendition you or assassinate you if they deem it necessary for national security reasons? I think under the right conditions, a good many state intelligence services would not let the letter of the law get in their way. I just don't think the particular scenario above makes sense. What makes sense: -devs discovered some vulnerability but were persuaded that disclosing it would endanger important operations in progress. They were not coerced but reached a compromise with (agency). -Devs were told, in no uncertain terms, that they need to discourage use of Truecrypt. Seems kind of low-impact, so probably not the case. - Truecrypt was an (agency) project all along, and the faction arguing for universal access to strong cryptography finally lost out. The cat being out of the bag, and given the difficulty of introducing new vulnerabilities into an open-source tool used by the professionally paranoid, the best option was to try to discredit Truecrypt to the extent possible.
A4ET8a8uTh0 7y ago
Well, there is an argument that IC does not have a problem with other interested parties chasing their tail trying to figure out what that really meant similar to the way government occassionally releases few tidbits about Kennedy assasination just to keep the flames flowing and activist distracted from what is going on right now. There is value in misdirection.

I'm not sure that makes sense. The US could compel the devs to compromise their product but not keep them from issuing a cryptic statement and stopping work on the product?

criddell 7y ago

It doesn't make sense for two reasons to me. For one, the government can't compel you to do work. That's slavery. Also, it's open source software. TrueCrypt going down didn't change the security landscape at all.

turk73 7y ago
On the face of it sure, but then the key people start having heart attacks and mysterious accidents and suddenly the problem goes away. And that's the world we live in.
dboreham 7y ago
They offer you a large contract to do <something>, then they require that <some guy> they nominate work with you on the project. That guy introduces the backdoor.
SkyBelow 7y ago
The government can. For example, take how the police will turn individuals into informants by getting them on trumped up drug charges and then offering them a deal if they work for the government, including engaging in acts that put them at risk of being killed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Rachel_Hoffman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Rachel_Hoffman The end result is "Work for us or go to prison."
ceejayoz 7y ago
> For one, the government can't compel you to do work. That's slavery. Slavery's perfectly legal. The 13th Amendment: "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penal_labor_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penal_labor_in_the_United_Stat...
- criddell 7y ago
  Are you suggesting the TrueCrypt authors had been duly convicted of a crime?
  - brewdad 7y ago
    He's saying they easily could have been. See: Three Felonies a Day
  - ceejayoz 7y ago
    I am not. I am pointing out that the Constitutional provisions preventing slavery have a loophole big enough to drive an aircraft carrier through.
kube-system 7y ago
> For one, the government can't compel you to do work. That's slavery. That may be your personal opinion, but legally speaking, it is not true in any sense.
- apodysophilia 7y ago
  It is also the argument that Apple used against the FBI in the San Bernardino case.
  - kube-system 7y ago
    I'm just taking issue with the quoted claim at face value, outside of the context. Consider for example, the legality of jury duty, conscription, subpoenas, taxation, traffic stops, etc. Government-compelled actions are common and legal.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
rebuilder 7y ago
Like the government (of any given state) can't rendition you or assassinate you if they deem it necessary for national security reasons? I think under the right conditions, a good many state intelligence services would not let the letter of the law get in their way. I just don't think the particular scenario above makes sense. What makes sense: -devs discovered some vulnerability but were persuaded that disclosing it would endanger important operations in progress. They were not coerced but reached a compromise with (agency). -Devs were told, in no uncertain terms, that they need to discourage use of Truecrypt. Seems kind of low-impact, so probably not the case. - Truecrypt was an (agency) project all along, and the faction arguing for universal access to strong cryptography finally lost out. The cat being out of the bag, and given the difficulty of introducing new vulnerabilities into an open-source tool used by the professionally paranoid, the best option was to try to discredit Truecrypt to the extent possible.

A4ET8a8uTh0 7y ago

Well, there is an argument that IC does not have a problem with other interested parties chasing their tail trying to figure out what that really meant similar to the way government occassionally releases few tidbits about Kennedy assasination just to keep the flames flowing and activist distracted from what is going on right now. There is value in misdirection.