4 ms·

It wouldn't be so bad with ubiquitous end to end encryption though right? If everything was encrypted in transit it wouldn't really matter if Huawei (and by ext

by rtkwe 7y ago

It wouldn't be so bad with ubiquitous end to end encryption though right? If everything was encrypted in transit it wouldn't really matter if Huawei (and by extension the supposition goes the Chinese government) because they'd just see noise. Guess they would also be able to do location tracking though and that's not so easily solved.

pbhjpbhj 7y ago
Yes, this is my understanding. But, haven't USA for Adobe history wrt "backdooring" the encryption algorithms themselves (ie private knowledge allows decryption to be made plausible [but still costly]).
tinus_hn 7y ago
The US government does not get to dictate mobile phone standards so that is irrelevant. Besides, it’s not like the US government doesn’t have its hand in the sniffing cookie jar, they don’t really want the traffic to be indecipherable.
snowwrestler 7y ago
I mean, you can do a lot with metadata. Also, I think quite a bit of telecomm traffic is encrypted by the telecomm carrier itself. For example I don't think my iPhone, by default, encrypts/decrypts SMS or voice calls on the device. To the extent text messages and mobile phone calls are resistant to dumb eavesdropping, that's provided by the mobile carrier. So having access into all the equipment at the carrier would be a nice centralized place to sit and observe/record.
ckocagil 7y ago
Governments are focusing more and more on end-to-end encryption. It can be banned within the next 5 years. They could need to manufacture some consent before that (e.g. mention e2e in the news every time a major crime is committed).
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- maqp 7y ago
  Not going to happen, considering djb vs US declared code free-speech; E2EE is implemented in code so you can't ban it without violating the constitution.
freeflight 7y ago
Even end to end encryption often leaves them with metadata [0] [0] https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2014/05/10/we-kill-people-based-metadata/ https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2014/05/10/we-kill-people-base...
- maqp 7y ago
  Which is why you'll want to use some open source onion-routed app like Briar, Ricochet, Cwtch, TFC, or Session.
  - tP5n 7y ago
    Using tor to keep your communications secret is like having ACAB tattooed on your forehead - fine if you like the attention, not exactly useful if you don't.
    - maqp 7y ago
      It is when everyone uses Tor. Nobody uses Tor: Everyone is surveilled. Few activists use Tor: Activists are easy to pick and everyone else is easy to surveill. Everyone uses Tor: Nobody can be surveilled. Nothing to gain by not using Tor, only one way to win, use Tor and tell everyone else to use Tor too. It's like the prisoner's dilemma, and not using Tor is like betraying others just in case things ever get bad.
Spooky23 7y ago
There is metadata, but you also have frequent bugs or other errata that render encryption vulnerable. A nation-state type actor can hoover up everything and retroactively decrypt.
xorcist 7y ago
There is also the risk of disrupting network operations at some unfortunate time, especially since these new networks are thought to be dominated by machine-to-machine communications.

by rtkwe 7y ago

pbhjpbhj 7y ago

Yes, this is my understanding. But, haven't USA for Adobe history wrt "backdooring" the encryption algorithms themselves (ie private knowledge allows decryption to be made plausible [but still costly]).

tinus_hn 7y ago

The US government does not get to dictate mobile phone standards so that is irrelevant. Besides, it’s not like the US government doesn’t have its hand in the sniffing cookie jar, they don’t really want the traffic to be indecipherable.

snowwrestler 7y ago

I mean, you can do a lot with metadata. Also, I think quite a bit of telecomm traffic is encrypted by the telecomm carrier itself. For example I don't think my iPhone, by default, encrypts/decrypts SMS or voice calls on the device. To the extent text messages and mobile phone calls are resistant to dumb eavesdropping, that's provided by the mobile carrier. So having access into all the equipment at the carrier would be a nice centralized place to sit and observe/record.

ckocagil 7y ago

Governments are focusing more and more on end-to-end encryption. It can be banned within the next 5 years. They could need to manufacture some consent before that (e.g. mention e2e in the news every time a major crime is committed).

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
maqp 7y ago
Not going to happen, considering djb vs US declared code free-speech; E2EE is implemented in code so you can't ban it without violating the constitution.

freeflight 7y ago

Even end to end encryption often leaves them with metadata [0] [0] https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2014/05/10/we-kill-people-based-metadata/ https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2014/05/10/we-kill-people-base...

maqp 7y ago
Which is why you'll want to use some open source onion-routed app like Briar, Ricochet, Cwtch, TFC, or Session.
- tP5n 7y ago
  Using tor to keep your communications secret is like having ACAB tattooed on your forehead - fine if you like the attention, not exactly useful if you don't.
  - maqp 7y ago
    It is when everyone uses Tor. Nobody uses Tor: Everyone is surveilled. Few activists use Tor: Activists are easy to pick and everyone else is easy to surveill. Everyone uses Tor: Nobody can be surveilled. Nothing to gain by not using Tor, only one way to win, use Tor and tell everyone else to use Tor too. It's like the prisoner's dilemma, and not using Tor is like betraying others just in case things ever get bad.

Spooky23 7y ago

There is metadata, but you also have frequent bugs or other errata that render encryption vulnerable. A nation-state type actor can hoover up everything and retroactively decrypt.

xorcist 7y ago

There is also the risk of disrupting network operations at some unfortunate time, especially since these new networks are thought to be dominated by machine-to-machine communications.