10 ms·

Trump’s 2021 budget drowns science agencies in red ink, again

tzs 7y ago
This does more than cut budgets: > DOE’s Advanced Research Projects Agency-Energy: a cut of 173%, which would not only eliminate the $425 million agency, but also force it to return $311 million to the U.S. Department of the Treasury
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- searine 7y ago
  ARPA-e is a grant funding institution. They were given 400 million to give grants, and have issued 92 million. Trumps budget is asking for them to return the remainder.
  - ebg13 7y ago
    Yes. That's what they said.
- Ericson2314 7y ago
  This sucks, I would rather see more civilian than military advanced projects, but of course Trump has the opposite preference. (That isn't to say that DoE isn't doing plenty of military stuff too.)
showerst 7y ago
For non-US readers or those not used the federal political process, the president doesn't set the budget, congress does. These proposals are policy pieces to play to the base, and rarely have much that ends up in the actual budget.
- noobermin 7y ago
  You significantly underplay how much influence this has on the budget actually passed by the house and how often the house decides to go ahead and fund what the white house asks for.
  - goatinaboat 7y ago
    The house is hostile to Trump no? They will do the opposite of what he says he wants. Checkmate.
  - showerst 7y ago
    The president's budget is traditionally DOA, but particularly when the opposing party controls the house. Apologies for lack of a newer source, but https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/presidential-budgets-rarely-get-approved/ https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/presidential-budge... The presidential budget proposal is actually required by law, but just doesn't have an outsized effect.
- taikawatiti 7y ago
  Thanks for the clarification. As someone not from the US, can you also clarify what role does president have at all in the budget? Can he send it back (and be forced to sign a second time?)
  - lostcolony 7y ago
    He can veto it, but he won't have to. The Senate is controlled by his party, and Mconnell has shown time and again he won't stand up to the president (he won't agree with him either, but will use it politically for his own agenda). So I don't expect a budget Trump objects to will even make it to his desk. What is likely to happen is that the Senate will use this as a negotiation tool with the house. It -will- lead to a compromise eventually (but with a decent chance of government shutdown first), which will end up funding most of the things Trump wants, AND most of the stuff Dems want, leading to a further increase in the deficit.
  - showerst 7y ago
searine 7y ago
If there is one thing that will end american hegemony, it is failing to fund basic science.
- noobermin 7y ago
  This is correct. While I personally don't want us to be the world's policeman, we are certainly guaranteeing we will slip beyond even an influential state the more we do this sort of thing.
gfosco 7y ago
Private sector: This is your time. The free market has been waiting for you. You don't need the government to do this.
- noobermin 7y ago
  The private sector has never funded low chance of return research, actually a few companies did but that was another time. That's what national labs are for.
  - gfosco 7y ago
    When we're 23 trillion in debt, maybe the government should be reducing funding for low chance of return research too..
    - Ericson2314 7y ago
      Government debt in that state's own currency is not like household debt. Frankly, we shouldn't use the word "debt" for the former.
      - wuliwong 7y ago
        What word do you think should be used instead?
        basementcat 7y ago
        Perhaps "Market Cap". A country that controls a currency that is used by many people outside its own borders is analogous to a cryptocurrency with a "proof of stake" consensus algorithm in which holders of sovereign bonds are rewarded with "interest". The central bank may periodically make policy pronouncements which may be analogous to various soft and hard forks (change of interest rate -> change of mining reward) which may impact the valuation relative to other currencies. Certain countries/currencies have a very long track record of not having very many "zero day vulnerabilities" and are therefore highly trusted and a first choice whenever there is a "flight to safety" (when panic strikes and there is demand for "safe" investments).
rtkwe 7y ago
It's a rough time for any government agency doing research, if they're not being slashed entirely the whole funding process is being redirected away from any sort of renewable energy and to fossil fuels. At a DOE conference a year or two ago the speaker from the government pretty explicitly said most funding will be going to research into things related to fossil fuels (coal, fracking, etc).
apodysophilia 7y ago
It is nice to see budget cuts but they don't look aggressive enough.
aazaa 7y ago
If this were headed in the direction of deficit reduction, that would be one thing. But on top of these cuts, the budget also expands the deficit to $1T, or somewhere north of 5% of GDP: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/09/trump-admin-to-unveil-fiscal-2021-budget-calling-for-extending-tax-cuts.html https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/09/trump-admin-to-unveil-fiscal... https://www.thebalance.com/us-deficit-by-year-3306306 https://www.thebalance.com/us-deficit-by-year-3306306
- apodysophilia 7y ago
  The budget outlines a plan to have a budget surplus by 2035. Obviously it would be better for that to happen sooner but that seems unlikely. People are upset about these cuts. Imagine how upset they would be if all discretionary spending was cut in half.
  - tzs 7y ago
    Doesn't that "plan" depend on unrealistic economic growth?
supernova87a 7y ago
Right hand: "We're outraged that China's Huawei is exploiting state subsidies to develop technology that poses a national security threat to the USA!" Left hand: cuts research funding. Sometimes I get sadly resigned to the possibility that this really is what a majority of this country wants (or has been convinced is what is best). Despite us being overall so developed, these kinds of issues show you the importance (and inescapable historic truth) of still needing to tend to your fellow citizens' basic material needs. And, when not doing it properly (or seen to be doing it), it can determine whether you get to advance on the forefront of other issues. I swear, the biggest gift to other countries who are our long term competitors (and yes, don't mistake that we're not in a long term race here), is not any transfer/leak of technology or outright sabotage. It's that our stagnation and policy choas (caused by the dumbest issues!) for a decade sap our progress on strategic, major, major technologies. And cause the experts who you need to make progress to leave for more fertile ground, whether through leaving government, private companies, or to other countries. (How do you think that the FAA and military gradually became so dependent on their industry partners for any semblance of expertise?) Edit: yes I know that it's just the budget proposal, and that it's likely to get watered down more than Bernie Sanders in a general election. But the decline in funding in actual budgets is undeniable. And the outright deception to present such a budget is near fraud.
mi100hael 7y ago
Sad to see NOAA continue to be gutted. Michael Lewis's book the Fifth Risk provides a good look at the individuals behind services like Accuweather and how they're trying to monopolize public, tax-funded data for private profit.
- masonic 7y ago
  How does one "monopolize" public data that remains public?
  - mi100hael 7y ago
    By making it technically available but realistically inaccessible (like bad, buggy web services) due to budget cuts and willful malice. Then with special treatment/access, re-sell it through your private for-profit company in the formats that NOAA should've presented it in (and has in the past). The book is worth a read if you're curious about specifics.
exabrial 7y ago
Interesting: https://twitter.com/NASA/status/1226983552987860992 https://twitter.com/NASA/status/1226983552987860992
- wolfram74 7y ago
  In the break down it looks like nasa's science and environmental budgets got slashed, the operations budget kept flattish/light cuts, and some of the flashier stuff boosts.
petebank 7y ago
You have problems . Seek help and stop watching CNN. CNN is fake news.

tzs 7y ago

This does more than cut budgets: > DOE’s Advanced Research Projects Agency-Energy: a cut of 173%, which would not only eliminate the $425 million agency, but also force it to return $311 million to the U.S. Department of the Treasury

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
searine 7y ago
ARPA-e is a grant funding institution. They were given 400 million to give grants, and have issued 92 million. Trumps budget is asking for them to return the remainder.
- ebg13 7y ago
  Yes. That's what they said.
Ericson2314 7y ago
This sucks, I would rather see more civilian than military advanced projects, but of course Trump has the opposite preference. (That isn't to say that DoE isn't doing plenty of military stuff too.)

showerst 7y ago

For non-US readers or those not used the federal political process, the president doesn't set the budget, congress does. These proposals are policy pieces to play to the base, and rarely have much that ends up in the actual budget.

noobermin 7y ago
You significantly underplay how much influence this has on the budget actually passed by the house and how often the house decides to go ahead and fund what the white house asks for.
- goatinaboat 7y ago
  The house is hostile to Trump no? They will do the opposite of what he says he wants. Checkmate.
- showerst 7y ago
  The president's budget is traditionally DOA, but particularly when the opposing party controls the house. Apologies for lack of a newer source, but https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/presidential-budgets-rarely-get-approved/ https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/presidential-budge... The presidential budget proposal is actually required by law, but just doesn't have an outsized effect.
taikawatiti 7y ago
Thanks for the clarification. As someone not from the US, can you also clarify what role does president have at all in the budget? Can he send it back (and be forced to sign a second time?)
- lostcolony 7y ago
  He can veto it, but he won't have to. The Senate is controlled by his party, and Mconnell has shown time and again he won't stand up to the president (he won't agree with him either, but will use it politically for his own agenda). So I don't expect a budget Trump objects to will even make it to his desk. What is likely to happen is that the Senate will use this as a negotiation tool with the house. It -will- lead to a compromise eventually (but with a decent chance of government shutdown first), which will end up funding most of the things Trump wants, AND most of the stuff Dems want, leading to a further increase in the deficit.
- showerst 7y ago

searine 7y ago

If there is one thing that will end american hegemony, it is failing to fund basic science.

noobermin 7y ago
This is correct. While I personally don't want us to be the world's policeman, we are certainly guaranteeing we will slip beyond even an influential state the more we do this sort of thing.

gfosco 7y ago

Private sector: This is your time. The free market has been waiting for you. You don't need the government to do this.

noobermin 7y ago
The private sector has never funded low chance of return research, actually a few companies did but that was another time. That's what national labs are for.
- gfosco 7y ago
  When we're 23 trillion in debt, maybe the government should be reducing funding for low chance of return research too..
  - Ericson2314 7y ago
    Government debt in that state's own currency is not like household debt. Frankly, we shouldn't use the word "debt" for the former.
    - wuliwong 7y ago
      What word do you think should be used instead?
      - basementcat 7y ago
        Perhaps "Market Cap". A country that controls a currency that is used by many people outside its own borders is analogous to a cryptocurrency with a "proof of stake" consensus algorithm in which holders of sovereign bonds are rewarded with "interest". The central bank may periodically make policy pronouncements which may be analogous to various soft and hard forks (change of interest rate -> change of mining reward) which may impact the valuation relative to other currencies. Certain countries/currencies have a very long track record of not having very many "zero day vulnerabilities" and are therefore highly trusted and a first choice whenever there is a "flight to safety" (when panic strikes and there is demand for "safe" investments).

rtkwe 7y ago

It's a rough time for any government agency doing research, if they're not being slashed entirely the whole funding process is being redirected away from any sort of renewable energy and to fossil fuels. At a DOE conference a year or two ago the speaker from the government pretty explicitly said most funding will be going to research into things related to fossil fuels (coal, fracking, etc).

apodysophilia 7y ago

It is nice to see budget cuts but they don't look aggressive enough.

aazaa 7y ago

If this were headed in the direction of deficit reduction, that would be one thing. But on top of these cuts, the budget also expands the deficit to $1T, or somewhere north of 5% of GDP: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/09/trump-admin-to-unveil-fiscal-2021-budget-calling-for-extending-tax-cuts.html https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/09/trump-admin-to-unveil-fiscal... https://www.thebalance.com/us-deficit-by-year-3306306 https://www.thebalance.com/us-deficit-by-year-3306306

apodysophilia 7y ago
The budget outlines a plan to have a budget surplus by 2035. Obviously it would be better for that to happen sooner but that seems unlikely. People are upset about these cuts. Imagine how upset they would be if all discretionary spending was cut in half.
- tzs 7y ago
  Doesn't that "plan" depend on unrealistic economic growth?

supernova87a 7y ago

Right hand: "We're outraged that China's Huawei is exploiting state subsidies to develop technology that poses a national security threat to the USA!" Left hand: cuts research funding. Sometimes I get sadly resigned to the possibility that this really is what a majority of this country wants (or has been convinced is what is best). Despite us being overall so developed, these kinds of issues show you the importance (and inescapable historic truth) of still needing to tend to your fellow citizens' basic material needs. And, when not doing it properly (or seen to be doing it), it can determine whether you get to advance on the forefront of other issues. I swear, the biggest gift to other countries who are our long term competitors (and yes, don't mistake that we're not in a long term race here), is not any transfer/leak of technology or outright sabotage. It's that our stagnation and policy choas (caused by the dumbest issues!) for a decade sap our progress on strategic, major, major technologies. And cause the experts who you need to make progress to leave for more fertile ground, whether through leaving government, private companies, or to other countries. (How do you think that the FAA and military gradually became so dependent on their industry partners for any semblance of expertise?) Edit: yes I know that it's just the budget proposal, and that it's likely to get watered down more than Bernie Sanders in a general election. But the decline in funding in actual budgets is undeniable. And the outright deception to present such a budget is near fraud.

mi100hael 7y ago

Sad to see NOAA continue to be gutted. Michael Lewis's book the Fifth Risk provides a good look at the individuals behind services like Accuweather and how they're trying to monopolize public, tax-funded data for private profit.

masonic 7y ago
How does one "monopolize" public data that remains public?
- mi100hael 7y ago
  By making it technically available but realistically inaccessible (like bad, buggy web services) due to budget cuts and willful malice. Then with special treatment/access, re-sell it through your private for-profit company in the formats that NOAA should've presented it in (and has in the past). The book is worth a read if you're curious about specifics.

exabrial 7y ago

Interesting: https://twitter.com/NASA/status/1226983552987860992 https://twitter.com/NASA/status/1226983552987860992

wolfram74 7y ago
In the break down it looks like nasa's science and environmental budgets got slashed, the operations budget kept flattish/light cuts, and some of the flashier stuff boosts.

petebank 7y ago

You have problems . Seek help and stop watching CNN. CNN is fake news.