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I hate the desktop Apple "Magic" keyboard. The keys are too close together, so prolonged typing on it cramps up my fingers something awful. The key travel is ab

I hate the desktop Apple "Magic" keyboard. The keys are too close together, so prolonged typing on it cramps up my fingers something awful. The key travel is absurdly low, so it's easy to miss characters. The up and down arrow keys are only half the size of the left and right, because reasons. I wouldn't classify the Magic Keyboard as disastrous the way the MacBook keyboards have been, since it doesn't suffer the same types of catastrophic reliability problems. But ergonomically it's a horror show.

oefrha 7y ago
And I hate mechanical keyboards that can be heard five rooms away. It’s a frigging desktop, you can use any keyboard, and using the magic keyboard doesn’t bother anyone else unlike clunky mechanical keyboards that are supposed to be ergonomic.
- iLemming 7y ago
  Maybe you just haven't tried mechanical keyboards? Or perhaps you haven't tried a good one? I think once you start using split keyboard - it's hard to go back to using regular boards, same thing for when you start using mechanical keyboard. But once you start using mechanical, split keyboard (Kinesis Advantage, Ergodox, etc.) - you never willingly go back to using regular keyboards.
  - oefrha 7y ago
    I grew up on mechanical keyboards. Not split, but I’ve used some fairly expensive ones (not talking about >$1k apparently) and I’m not a fan. You just have to accept that unlike retina displays, people will have drastically different preferences for keyboards. Also, one undeniable fact is that other people in the office/household usually aren’t amused about loud keyboards.
    - iLemming 7y ago
      > other people in the office/household usually aren’t amused about loud keyboards My partner and kids don't like many things about my job of a software developer, but they've learned to live with that. There are many, more difficult jobs in the world. And my family probably happy with the fact that I don't have a job that entails leaving them at 3AM with a fear that I may not come back alive. Besides, at this point, split, mechanical keyboard for me is not a gimmick - I literally cannot type for longer than several minutes on a regular keyboard, my wrists hurt badly. I honestly think - Kinesis Advantage might have saved my career, my only regret that I haven't made the switch before I had my RSI, which was so severe that left me no option but to try it.
  - killjoywashere 7y ago
    This seems like vi vs all other editors then. I should stick with vim because I will always find myself on some other system where vi is the lowest common denominator. I should stick with a straight, flat keyboard because I will always end up with a straight, flat keyboard. Having temporary joy created only by making all other moments comparatively unpleasant seems like a bad trade.
    - iLemming 7y ago
      "Lowest common denominator" argument in our industry is a false dichotomy. One should try different things and choose whatever makes them happy. Fortunately, our field is so deep, there's always stuff to choose from. If you don't like Vim/Emacs/VSCode/Atom/etc. - fine, use something else; If you don't like Javascript - there are multiple ways to transpire/compile into it, choose the one you like; don't like OOP - try FP; etc. Doing something because most people doing it, using tech-stacks simply because they are popular, choosing QWERTY layout and not trying other options, etc. - hinders self-growth of an individual and stymies innovation in general.
  - anonsivalley652 7y ago
    I don't think they hate mechanical keyboards per se, but the noise pollution that they've associated with keyboards that have Cherry MX Blue switches, or an IBM Model F or M, or Northgate Omnikey Ultra. It was fine back in the day in the computer lab in high-school or wherever else that it's not bothering people, but not fine to bring in a clicky keyboard, full tower PC and a 37" monitor to a coffeeshop where 50 students are studying for finals, or in an open office environment where every little motion and noise has the potential to distract everyone else.
- anonsivalley652 7y ago
  I happen to very much like mechanical keyboards but not the noise. I think it's noise pollution tbh. Loud clicky keyboards, usually using Cherry MX Blue switches or like the old IBM or Northgate keyboards, can be retrofitted with O-rings so that they're quieter by limiting downward travel and the stress and noise that bottoming them generates. If you like mechanical keyboards without the noise, MX Clear (modded with brown springs) or MX Brown switches are the way to go. There's a whole subreddit on DIY and keyboard mods.
gnicholas 7y ago
Are the keys closer together than Apple keyboards from a decade ago? I ask because I am content with my 2008-era Apple Bluetooth keyboard (on which I am currently typing because I hate my 2017 MPB), and I assumed that the new 16" MBP's keyboard would be fine since it imitates the Magic Keyboard.
anonsivalley652 7y ago
Hold your horses a second, there are multiple Apple "Magic" and wireless keyboard versions. The original Magic Keyboard and later all suck from my view, trying to be some sort of ortho hipster conversation pieces that never get used. As it so happens, I'm currently typing on an "Apple Wireless Keyboard" (Aluminum, Bluetooth) MB167LL/A, which has a sensible layout and full inverted-T arrows. They can be had on eBay for $40 US and take 2x AA batteries that last for several months on alkalines or about a month on NiMH rechargeables. The Logitech "smart" keyboard that came with an iPad Pro case is a glorified cover that I never use as a keyboard because it's not nearly as good as the WK. I've had this WK for about 8-10 years and really abused it, but it keeps working... the same can't be said for modern Apple products.
mercer 7y ago
I'm very happy with the "Magic" keyboard I currently have (the aluminum solid-wedge-shaped one with white keys). Of course, I mostly preferred the one before it because, aside from needing batteries, the keys had a bit more bounce. And, of course, I'm mostly very happy because it's an immense relief to type on now that I have one of those fancy MacBook Pros... When I first got this MacBook I thought the complaints were overblown. And yet, even after having it for months I still have trouble with it: - double-pressing keys or, more regularly, somehow not pressing properly so entire chunks of words are skipped. - daring tion in the document to put my palms anywhere near the machine and accidentally putting the cursor in an an entirely different loca. - trying to up the brightness or volume and the touchbar not responding. I use caps lock as esc so the missing escape key doesn't bother me too much. and perhaps worst of all, for the first time in years I've started feeling pain in my shoulders/fingers/arms again. and the only explanation I can think of is this fucking keyboard.
musicale 7y ago
I don't think the current external Magic keyboard is really an improvement over the old wired aluminum keyboard, but it isn't terrible. The new laptop renditions fix the arrow key layout somewhat, so there is hope on that front. Recently I've tried out a Matias laptop pro keyboard. A bit retro-clunky looking and heavy, but it has good key travel and isn't as loud as some other "mechanical" keyboards. Not bad for a Bluetooth Mac keyboard. What is your Mac keyboard of choice?

oefrha 7y ago

And I hate mechanical keyboards that can be heard five rooms away. It’s a frigging desktop, you can use any keyboard, and using the magic keyboard doesn’t bother anyone else unlike clunky mechanical keyboards that are supposed to be ergonomic.

iLemming 7y ago
Maybe you just haven't tried mechanical keyboards? Or perhaps you haven't tried a good one? I think once you start using split keyboard - it's hard to go back to using regular boards, same thing for when you start using mechanical keyboard. But once you start using mechanical, split keyboard (Kinesis Advantage, Ergodox, etc.) - you never willingly go back to using regular keyboards.
- oefrha 7y ago
  I grew up on mechanical keyboards. Not split, but I’ve used some fairly expensive ones (not talking about >$1k apparently) and I’m not a fan. You just have to accept that unlike retina displays, people will have drastically different preferences for keyboards. Also, one undeniable fact is that other people in the office/household usually aren’t amused about loud keyboards.
  - iLemming 7y ago
    > other people in the office/household usually aren’t amused about loud keyboards My partner and kids don't like many things about my job of a software developer, but they've learned to live with that. There are many, more difficult jobs in the world. And my family probably happy with the fact that I don't have a job that entails leaving them at 3AM with a fear that I may not come back alive. Besides, at this point, split, mechanical keyboard for me is not a gimmick - I literally cannot type for longer than several minutes on a regular keyboard, my wrists hurt badly. I honestly think - Kinesis Advantage might have saved my career, my only regret that I haven't made the switch before I had my RSI, which was so severe that left me no option but to try it.
- killjoywashere 7y ago
  This seems like vi vs all other editors then. I should stick with vim because I will always find myself on some other system where vi is the lowest common denominator. I should stick with a straight, flat keyboard because I will always end up with a straight, flat keyboard. Having temporary joy created only by making all other moments comparatively unpleasant seems like a bad trade.
  - iLemming 7y ago
    "Lowest common denominator" argument in our industry is a false dichotomy. One should try different things and choose whatever makes them happy. Fortunately, our field is so deep, there's always stuff to choose from. If you don't like Vim/Emacs/VSCode/Atom/etc. - fine, use something else; If you don't like Javascript - there are multiple ways to transpire/compile into it, choose the one you like; don't like OOP - try FP; etc. Doing something because most people doing it, using tech-stacks simply because they are popular, choosing QWERTY layout and not trying other options, etc. - hinders self-growth of an individual and stymies innovation in general.
- anonsivalley652 7y ago
  I don't think they hate mechanical keyboards per se, but the noise pollution that they've associated with keyboards that have Cherry MX Blue switches, or an IBM Model F or M, or Northgate Omnikey Ultra. It was fine back in the day in the computer lab in high-school or wherever else that it's not bothering people, but not fine to bring in a clicky keyboard, full tower PC and a 37" monitor to a coffeeshop where 50 students are studying for finals, or in an open office environment where every little motion and noise has the potential to distract everyone else.
anonsivalley652 7y ago
I happen to very much like mechanical keyboards but not the noise. I think it's noise pollution tbh. Loud clicky keyboards, usually using Cherry MX Blue switches or like the old IBM or Northgate keyboards, can be retrofitted with O-rings so that they're quieter by limiting downward travel and the stress and noise that bottoming them generates. If you like mechanical keyboards without the noise, MX Clear (modded with brown springs) or MX Brown switches are the way to go. There's a whole subreddit on DIY and keyboard mods.

gnicholas 7y ago

Are the keys closer together than Apple keyboards from a decade ago? I ask because I am content with my 2008-era Apple Bluetooth keyboard (on which I am currently typing because I hate my 2017 MPB), and I assumed that the new 16" MBP's keyboard would be fine since it imitates the Magic Keyboard.

anonsivalley652 7y ago

Hold your horses a second, there are multiple Apple "Magic" and wireless keyboard versions. The original Magic Keyboard and later all suck from my view, trying to be some sort of ortho hipster conversation pieces that never get used. As it so happens, I'm currently typing on an "Apple Wireless Keyboard" (Aluminum, Bluetooth) MB167LL/A, which has a sensible layout and full inverted-T arrows. They can be had on eBay for $40 US and take 2x AA batteries that last for several months on alkalines or about a month on NiMH rechargeables. The Logitech "smart" keyboard that came with an iPad Pro case is a glorified cover that I never use as a keyboard because it's not nearly as good as the WK. I've had this WK for about 8-10 years and really abused it, but it keeps working... the same can't be said for modern Apple products.

mercer 7y ago

I'm very happy with the "Magic" keyboard I currently have (the aluminum solid-wedge-shaped one with white keys). Of course, I mostly preferred the one before it because, aside from needing batteries, the keys had a bit more bounce. And, of course, I'm mostly very happy because it's an immense relief to type on now that I have one of those fancy MacBook Pros... When I first got this MacBook I thought the complaints were overblown. And yet, even after having it for months I still have trouble with it: - double-pressing keys or, more regularly, somehow not pressing properly so entire chunks of words are skipped. - daring tion in the document to put my palms anywhere near the machine and accidentally putting the cursor in an an entirely different loca. - trying to up the brightness or volume and the touchbar not responding. I use caps lock as esc so the missing escape key doesn't bother me too much. and perhaps worst of all, for the first time in years I've started feeling pain in my shoulders/fingers/arms again. and the only explanation I can think of is this fucking keyboard.

musicale 7y ago

I don't think the current external Magic keyboard is really an improvement over the old wired aluminum keyboard, but it isn't terrible. The new laptop renditions fix the arrow key layout somewhat, so there is hope on that front. Recently I've tried out a Matias laptop pro keyboard. A bit retro-clunky looking and heavy, but it has good key travel and isn't as loud as some other "mechanical" keyboards. Not bad for a Bluetooth Mac keyboard. What is your Mac keyboard of choice?