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Rollerball pens that use fountain pen ink
- chrisseaton 7y agoI work in a job where I have to sign things with a fountain pen for etiquette reasons. I wonder if this will give the same effect as a fountain pen but be more practical.
- jfim 7y agoOut of curiosity, what role/industry is that?
- chrisseaton 7y agoThe Army - supposed to top and tail letters, especially social letters, with a fountain pen. Ballpoints are crass.
- dboreham 7y agoSocial letters?
- chrisseaton 7y agoInvitations, letters of introduction, thank yous, things like that.
- partisan 7y agoThank you for that tiny glimpse into a different world.
- GuiA 7y agoFWIW, it’s going away with the newer generation, but anyone in France over the age of 40-50 from an upper middle/higher class education would likely follow similar etiquette. Not sure if it’s still the case, but French students were required to use fountain pens from 1st grade till at least high school when i was growing up (as a leftie, being schooled by old school teachers who made you redo any assignment that had smeared ink was painful).
- yardie 7y agoOur son was still required to write with a fountain pen and was graded on penmanship. He was in the French education system to CM2 until we moved to the US 3 years ago.
- renox 7y agoYes, been there done that, I was so relieved when I could stop using these f.. fountain pens. Really annoying to use as for lefties..
- egypturnash 7y agoProbably not, all your signatures will be with nice ink, sure, but they'll still look like ballpoint signatures rather than fountain pen signatures.
- GuiA 7y agoIt depends if it’s the act of signing itself that is ceremonalized, or the quality of the ink on the paper.
- chrisseaton 7y agoWhat matters is that it appears to have been a fountain pen when the recipient receives it. That's probably a combination of ink viscosity, pressure on the paper, things like that.
- bayindirh 7y agoUniBall's vision elite pens shade like a fountain pen. I think it's mostly ink's behavior but it needs testing.
- SlowRobotAhead 7y agoAm I missing the point here? >You might be wondering, why is this a question? Why yes, exactly my thought, please tell me... >If you check out Unsharpen’s Ink Types Guide, you’ll see that while rollerball ink is great, fountain pen ink is quite special. Oh, ok, so I'll follow that link, and... >It is, of course, the ink used in fountain pens, but it takes thousands of forms. The ink can be in a bottle or cartridge, it can be iron gall or water-based, it can be handmade or produced by the vat, it can be lubricated, fluorescent, quick-drying, or any number of other qualities. [...] Fountain pen inks are a looser, more watery consistency compared to all other pen inks. This means they are free-flowing and prone to splashing, forming droplets, and doing other things that have been known to ruin countless shirts. Ok... So if I an to recap... The only real reason to use a ball pen with fountain ink is so I can refill it with whatever ink I like? OK, HN, I have some particular interests as well, but this is about the article of least importance I've ever seen on here. It's as if all my other problems in life have been solved and I can be a pen/ink hipster? Maybe for someone, but I guess I'm just not there yet!
- OnACoffeeBreak 7y agoI'm not into pens, so maybe sometime who is can shed light on the specifics. In general, I see this as any other hobby that can be taken to obsessive levels. I see it as similar to, for example, building your own PC and making sure all parts are color matched and all cables are routed in an esthetically pleasing ways, or growing Bonsai.
- bransonf 7y agoYou can draw a close parallel to mechanical keyboards. If you spend all day behind a keyboard, it makes sense to invest in a good experience. If you spend all day writing, it makes sense to have a nice pen.
- fishmaster 7y agoIf you value handwriting, it makes sense to invest in a good pen and high-quality paper. I have a decent fountain pen and notebooks and it not only makes handwriting more fun, I also noticed that I remember more of what I write down than when using a PC.
- ThePhysicist 7y agoNice, I was looking for something like this. I currently use a Lamy Al-Star with an ink converter (to use ink from a bottle instead of single-use cartridges). Really great for writing but sometimes I miss the speed and fluidity of a rollerball. Lamy also offer rollerball pens but only with single-use cartridges that are ridiculously overpriced (I think around 3 € for a single cartridge which might last a few weeks to months) compared to normal ink, which costs around 3-5 € for 30 ml and will last several years. My writing fills roughly one 100 page notebook per year, in addition I write down a lot of things on scrap paper as well.
- ryanobjc 7y agoTry a broader nib - with a larger surface it’s less scratchy. Also your nib probably needs a smoothing and tune up too! There’s many resources online to learn how to do that. In short very fine abrasives.
- sizzle 7y agoAll my nibs are failing, please share any trusted guides that aren't just cleaning the reservoir with soap and water.
- alfalfasprout 7y agoFlip the pen so you're writing with the nib backwards. Then gently press to re-align the tines. Then do a bunch of figure eights with the pen in the correct writing position on a brown paper lunch bag (around 5 minutes). Press down harder than how you'd normally write and see if that doesn't help.
- sizzle 7y agoI'll try this thanks!
- fishmaster 7y agoI don't have the link any more but I believe there's a way to smoothen the nib by writing on fine graded 'smoothing paper', not sure what it's called in English, with a little bit of water. Also, I don't think soap is advisable, use filtrated water as tap water can contain minerals that might damage the nib. That's just some stuff that I remember, might not be 100% true. Maybe someone can provide a link.
- thom 7y agoYes! If there's one thing I always wanted out of good pens that don't leak or cause a mess, it's a way to make them leak and cause a lot of mess. Finally!
- slowmovintarget 7y agoYou're not very familiar with modern fountain pens, are you? Most don't leak, and if you are really finicky about mess (like I used to be before children) you can fill them with a syringe... not a stray drop anywhere. The utility (and cost-effectiveness in many cases) of bottled inks, and avoiding the landfill waste of using cartridges is worth the extra effort in cleaning and maintaining a fine instrument.
- thom 7y agoThat sounds pretty much exactly as high maintenance as I was picturing.
- fishmaster 7y agoWhich is not really that much. Clean it once in a while and the refill is extremely easy, even with a syringe.
- odiroot 7y agoHah! I use exactly the same model as pictured. It's just so pleasant to write with. And even works for lefties like me.
- ryanobjc 7y agoI thought the ink drying speed was an issue for lefties and the resultant smear. These pens don’t seem to solve it... same ink after all.
- odiroot 7y agoHmm, not sure, it works for me. I mostly use Pelikan dark green or black ink. Seem to work well enough for me.
- slowmovintarget 7y agoThere are fast-drying fountain pen inks designed especially for left-handed overwriters. Have a look at Noodler's Bernanke series, for example: https://noodlersink.com/product-tag/fast-drying/ https://noodlersink.com/product-tag/fast-drying/ Funny story, the inks are named that as a commentary on Quantitative Easing. So much cash had to be printed so quickly, you see, that Bernanke really needed the ink to dry really fast...
- filleduchaos 7y agoAs someone that still fills a notebook roughly every three months, these pens are actually pretty nifty. Most regular ballpoints aren't ergonomic at all (I don't know how to describe it, but they take way too much force to write with and that leads to hand cramps in a long writing session). Rollerballs are way easier on the hand, and I tipped over to buying refillable ones because someone introduced me to J. Herbin ink and now I hate writing with anything else. I'm still very much a pen noob though - I just like vivid ink and not having a cramp after half an hour of steady writing.
- yumraj 7y agoTry fountain pen, they are much more easier to write, as in even less effort. Especially if you go with a medium nib.
- fishmaster 7y agoI absolutely cannot stand medium nibs, it's horrible for smaller or narrow handwritings. Also, with a decent quality paper F nibs are just as comfortable to write with.
- bayindirh 7y agoTry a Kaweco or Lamy medium nib with a Kaweco or Lamy blue ink. It doesn't write bold. Same can be said with Lamy nib + Lamy black ink. Medium can mean a lot of things. My Parker Vector's medium nib with Parker's own ink is equal to broad on many other manufacturers. Kaweco's medium is almost equal to Lamy's fine. All nibs become quite comfortable after they are shaped by your hand and writing :)
- fishmaster 7y agoI have used Lamy M nibs for several years during school and they're too broad for my taste. Now, after several years of trying pencils I'm using a Faber-Castell studio with an f nib and it's very smooth, even with standard pelikan ink.
- ryanobjc 7y agoI guess I don’t quite get it. The inks are the least good thing about fountain pens - the ink drys slow and often doesn’t well on cheap paper. I personally love fountain pens. The style, the tech, the aesthetic, everything. So this to me seems like a step back - and the writing end breaks every 20-30 fills!
- filleduchaos 7y agoDon't use cheap paper then? (half-sarcastic)
- ryanobjc 7y agoActually no I don’t! Good paper doesn’t even have to be too expensive either. Maybe more than a college ruled notebook. But I don’t take copious notes so something aesthetically nice to use is a big plus for me.
- hjrigirk 7y agoThe advantage of fountain ink is that it flows with minimum pressure, you barely need to touch the paper. This is noticable if you write for hours, but few do these days.
- mrob 7y agoHow well a fountain pen writes on cheap paper depends very much on the ink. Several years ago, when I first became interested in fountain pens, I exchanged ink samples with other enthusiasts, and tried many different inks. I had the best results with Noodler's Black, which avoided feathering or bleed-through even on cheap paper. I got through a 3oz jar of it, and I'm currently using a 3oz jar of Noodler's Bad Black Moccasin, which I don't like as much. Next jar will be the normal Noodler's Black again. Nib size also makes a difference; this was with an extra fine nib on a Lamy Safari.
- slowmovintarget 7y agoI'm currently working my way through a bottle of Noodler's Dark Matter. Really well behaved ink, though I'll likely trade-up to Noodler's X-Feather (anti-feather black) or plain black. I have samples of Noodler's 54th Massachusetts and Lexington Gray that I'm looking forward to trying.
- jonrx 7y agoI went a little overboard with fountain pen ink a few years back and stopped using fountain pens until recently. I'm left handed, but my wrist placement (underhanded) doesn't cause any problems with ink smear. I found that using them for notes and summaries "slows me down" and I process information better. YMMV. I use the Herbin ballpoint for quick notes and I really like it. For longer sessions, I'll whip up a Pilot Vanishing Point as I find that the added flex causes less fatigue. I also ordered Yookers felt tip pens that takes FP ink (https://yookers-shop.com/ https://yookers-shop.com/). I love the Sharpie pens, so if they feel the same, I might just hoard them and slowly empty my ink collection.
- Pamar 7y agoThere is also a small scale producer that is not listed in the article: Kakimori (Tokyo). https://kakimori.com/english https://kakimori.com/english I own one of their ink pens but I use it rarely so I can't say much about durability.
- itronitron 7y agoIf anyone knows of a 1mm rollerball that can handle acrylic (pigment-based) ink please post it here. While Molotow has several nice pen nibs they are plastic and wear out sooner than I would like.
- ianai 7y agoOT but on topic of choosing writing instruments. My personal go to are the pilot G2 rollerball gel ink pens - preferably 1 mm tip. They feel very smooth. Look more authoritative somehow too. Can be bought by he dozen.
- joecool1029 7y agoI'm an ambidextrous and writing by hand tends to be a tedious experience for me. Where many in this thread are enthusiasts or writing professionals, I rather want to convey a more utilitarian mindset. My goals are to have people understand what I write and not be in pain. For whatever reason, ballpoint pens and I can't mix with legibility. I believe it's the pressure and dragging that kills it for me. Pencil is also not great when writing with my left (because it smudges, using a #2.5 pencil helps a bit, but then I'm using more pressure to get the lines dark). I found I could write much more legibly using a fountain pen, so I've been using them since 1st or 2nd grade. There's a ton of drawbacks to using fountain pens for everything daily. First, while rare, I'd still get leaks and ink on my hands. For instance, if I dropped the pen. Second, there's a bit of a maintenance burden on fountain pens, the nibs need to be cleaned from time to time. Finally, pretty much all of these inks will wash out if the paper gets wet, so it's super bad for legal documents. I like the Pilot Metropolitan fountain pens as they strike the right balance of affordability and quality. The Fine nib for me (correlates to EF from American/European companies) seems to be the sweet spot, Medium feels imprecise for me. Noodler ink seems great, I was previously using Schaeffer ink and it was just ok. The latest pens I've come enjoy using are Pilot's Frixxion line. I grabbed on a whim awhile back and feel like every student of mathematics should know of these pens. They are a gel pen with fine point options but they can be 'erased' by rubbing a plastic nub on the back against paper. This heats up the paper and causes the ink to disappear. The effect can be reversed by throwing the paper in the freezer if erasure was unintended (or if a notebook was left in an extremely hot cat). I wish I had known about these pens when I was in school. Gel-type pens seem a bit more practical than fountain for daily carry or occasional use, not as good as a fountain but the ink seems to flow better than ballpoint and the tips don't get messed up like a felt pen. EDIT: More on topic though, I have tried rollerball pens and did not like them. They seemed even less precise than ballpoints for me and skipped more. Terrible writing experience all around, would not do again.
- Karrot_Kream 7y agoI'd love to hear more about your experiences. I too am not a writing-inclined person (and prefer to do most of my notetaking digitally for that reason), and would love anything that makes the process more frictionless. Most of my writing tends to be of a mathematical nature, other than the more mundane tasks of signing legal documents.
- throw0101a 7y agoAccompanying video with some writing samples: * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lBPfSTC_p8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lBPfSTC_p8
- crtlaltdel 7y agothis thread represents the reasons i love HN. i totally learned a lot from this!
- danShumway 7y agoIf you currently use a ballpoint pen, switching to a rollerball will be a huge jump in quality to your writing experience. However, if you already use rollerballs, and you're looking at this and thinking you'd like to try it out, but you haven't ever tried a fountain pen, I would heavily advise giving one a shot. If you know you need a rollerball, then a stick with a rollerball. But don't dismiss a fountain pen out-of-hand -- the cheaper brands will be the same price as the pens listed here, and will be a big jump in quality for a nontrivial number of readers. In particular, I've used a Fine nib Twisbi Eco (~$30) for multiple years now as my main pen, and I consider it to be one of the better purchases I've ever made. It's cheap enough that I can throw it into a bag or my pocket alongside my keys without worrying too much about it getting scratched or stolen, but it still looks reasonably nice, writes beautifully, holds a ton of ink, and is just a joy to use. There are cheaper pens out there, but I really like having a piston-fill pen, and I think it's just a really good quality, versatile, fun line -- there are even a lot of different color options. I can describe mechanically why a fountain pen feels good, but I can't really convey how it feels. The best thing I can say is that it takes something that's very mundane (writing) and it makes it feel a tiny bit more pleasurable and 'extravagant' (for lack of a better word). I write a lot, I fill notebooks with handwritten notes. With a fountain pen, it just feels good to write. My handwriting has improved a lot, particularly my cursive -- I suspect in part because I pay more attention to what I'm writing. It's easy to take care of, but it feels good to occasionally wash it out and switch to a new ink color. It feels nice to use permanent things. I've seen a few people talking about avoiding fountain pen ink even in the rollerballs because they dissolve in water. On that note I will swear by Noodler's Black Waterproof ink. I've completely submerged and soaked pages that I wrote on with that ink, and not only does it not dissolve, it does not even smudge. It's really crazy. One of the really nice things about fountain pens is that there's such a wide variety of colors and styles and glitters, and it just adds to this feeling of making your handwriting feel more expressive and personal. It makes total sense to me that rollerball users would want to be able to use the same ink.
- iCarrot 7y agoNice to see another fountain pen enthusiast here. I love my Twisbi Eco too, in fact I love all demonstrator pens especially with the Iroshizuku ink. It's not unlike swirling wine. But for beginners I would only recommend the Pilot Metropolitan, coming at ~$19 with fancy metal body and high quality Pilot nib. That pen is insane bang for your buck and will last years.
- ittan 7y agoI use a western broad for most of my writing. I would also recommend Lamy Safari as a good beginners pen because of its ease of use and wide variety of nib choices.
- m0zg 7y agoYou can take my Uni-Ball UB-157 from my cold, dead hands.
- raintrees 7y agoI went all the way to a fountain pen that I put a refillable cartridge into, currently a Cross silver beauty with Blue-Black ink from Japan - Gorgeous color. Originally I studied and trained as an Architect - A lettering sheet a week to practice my hand lettering skills. Rather than go into Architecture, I went into IT, eventually being a phone jockey providing tech support for half a decade. While trying to keep up (somewhat) with the conversation, my note taking speed meant my lettering quality went out the window. So I bought my first fountain pen to force myself to slow down and spend more time lettering better. If I forget, my ink stained hands serve as a reminder. :) I have only changed pens when I lose the previous (like once to the TSA along with a pocket knife, another time while using a shopping cart as a skateboard back to the market). Hopefully someone found that one and put it to use... Although I do not like fat pens, the cartridge style cannot get too thin, which also means they are more pleasant to hold in the hand. That turned out to be important to me if significant time is spent using it. Of course, YMMV.
- randomcarbloke 7y agoI much prefer a ballpoint to rollerball or fountain, I grew up using a fountain pen and still have a couple of nice ones but they are just don't do it for me, rollerballs sacrifice the practicality of a ballpoint and the style of a fountain, why not just pick one or the other.