4 ms·

Most people in this field are leaving to the US. It's surprising how many. See https://s3.amazonaws.com/chartprod/Lb7EHT9ksyZyjHqo5/thumbnail.png https://s3.ama

by ajayyy 7y ago

Most people in this field are leaving to the US. It's surprising how many. See https://s3.amazonaws.com/chartprod/Lb7EHT9ksyZyjHqo5/thumbnail.png https://s3.amazonaws.com/chartprod/Lb7EHT9ksyZyjHqo5/thumbna.... I am in a Canadian software engineering program right now, and it is a goal of many people here. Source: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/technology/article-canada-facing-brain-drain-as-young-tech-talent-leaves-for-silicon/ https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/technology/article-...

ttul 7y ago
I graduated in 2000 from Computer Engineering (in Canada). A solid fraction of my peers ended up in Silicon Valley. It’s not just for the wages. Silicon Valley just where most of the jobs are and it remains the best place in the world if you’re an engineer.
- andrewzah 7y ago
  The grass is always greener, I guess. I’m a software engineer from the US and I’d never move to SV in a million years. There are more things in life than money. There are so many cities here with better quality of life and lower cost of living.
  - ryanwaggoner 7y ago
    Quality of life is subjective, and there are no cities that offer as much financial and career opportunity to the average senior software developer as SV does right now. Yes, cost of living is high, but you’ll still come out far ahead the average senior software dev living in some midwestern city. There are exceptions / edge cases, but they’re just that.
    - andrewzah 7y ago
      > you’ll still come out far ahead the average senior software dev living in some midwestern city Come out far ahead how? I'm already pulling close to 6 figures, and I expect to reach $120-130k in a relatively short time period. Do I -need- to move to SV and live in much shittier conditions and have an insane cost of living just to earn some more money? ... I feel that remote work makes this an outdated concept (my company is fully distributed). I'm almost 24 and if I continue to manage my finances correctly, I should have my own spacious home by 25. I'm in South Carolina, but there are plenty of other reasonable places in the US. The money that I don't have to spend on high cost of living goes straight to my savings. I get that my situation is atypical, but it's absolutely possible to have a great life and earn great money while not living in SV. If I ever feel like I need to earn more money, there's nothing stopping me from creating my own startup, etc. I guess I'll never have the "prestige" of working in SV, but I seem to do just fine by going to conferences and networking.
      - seanmcdirmid 7y ago
        It really depends on the career opportunities you have in SC and how they correspond to your career aspirations. There really is nothing wrong with not going to the the valley or another big tech hub, but if you want to say, become a specialist in some area of ML, then there will only be a few places to do that. It isn’t (just) about prestige. If your goal is a comfortable life and financial stability, then you are completely right. If you want to become a millionaire or more, then you’ll have a better shot SV. If you are really focused on a specific technical topic, then SV, if you are a generalist and enjoy your work but don’t want to live it, then SC is fine.
      - marcinzm 7y ago
        Silicon Valley tech companies pay something like $400-$500k if you're good enough and have 10 years experience. It goes up from there as well but it's harder to get those promotions. I also know people who made that much at 25-ish due to good negotiation (at a pre-IPO late stage startup) or were in a hot field (ML). That's not counting the usual startup lottery. That money can offset cost of living quiet easily.
      - triceratops 7y ago
        > Come out far ahead how? Check out levels.fyi. Moving to the Bay Area to work at a random startup makes little sense, but moving to one of the BigCos can be very financially rewarding. > I'm almost 24 and if I continue to manage my finances correctly, I should have my own spacious home by 25 Check out this comment someone made complaining how high the CoL is in the Bay Area, even for someone making $300k. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22228756 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22228756 Their analysis is flawed and overstates expenses, but even then this hypothetical tech employee saves > $110k/year (including a 401k and match). That's enough to put a down payment on a house in SC every year. If you're investing minded, you could own an apartment building in about 10 years and never have to worry about money again.
        andrewzah 7y ago
        That's certainly compelling, but it still comes with huge downsides like lack of space, having to live with roommates, not having any family nearby, not being able to work fully remotely, likely not having a healthy work-life balance, etc. If I weren't working remotely, this would be more compelling I think.
  - marcinzm 7y ago
    >lower cost of living Cost of living is only relevant compared to the salary you make and SV can pay very well. Quality of life wise most of the SV is a giant suburb so if you like suburbs it's about the same as anywhere else.

by ajayyy 7y ago

ttul 7y ago

I graduated in 2000 from Computer Engineering (in Canada). A solid fraction of my peers ended up in Silicon Valley. It’s not just for the wages. Silicon Valley just where most of the jobs are and it remains the best place in the world if you’re an engineer.

andrewzah 7y ago
The grass is always greener, I guess. I’m a software engineer from the US and I’d never move to SV in a million years. There are more things in life than money. There are so many cities here with better quality of life and lower cost of living.
- ryanwaggoner 7y ago
  Quality of life is subjective, and there are no cities that offer as much financial and career opportunity to the average senior software developer as SV does right now. Yes, cost of living is high, but you’ll still come out far ahead the average senior software dev living in some midwestern city. There are exceptions / edge cases, but they’re just that.
  - andrewzah 7y ago
    > you’ll still come out far ahead the average senior software dev living in some midwestern city Come out far ahead how? I'm already pulling close to 6 figures, and I expect to reach $120-130k in a relatively short time period. Do I -need- to move to SV and live in much shittier conditions and have an insane cost of living just to earn some more money? ... I feel that remote work makes this an outdated concept (my company is fully distributed). I'm almost 24 and if I continue to manage my finances correctly, I should have my own spacious home by 25. I'm in South Carolina, but there are plenty of other reasonable places in the US. The money that I don't have to spend on high cost of living goes straight to my savings. I get that my situation is atypical, but it's absolutely possible to have a great life and earn great money while not living in SV. If I ever feel like I need to earn more money, there's nothing stopping me from creating my own startup, etc. I guess I'll never have the "prestige" of working in SV, but I seem to do just fine by going to conferences and networking.
    - seanmcdirmid 7y ago
      It really depends on the career opportunities you have in SC and how they correspond to your career aspirations. There really is nothing wrong with not going to the the valley or another big tech hub, but if you want to say, become a specialist in some area of ML, then there will only be a few places to do that. It isn’t (just) about prestige. If your goal is a comfortable life and financial stability, then you are completely right. If you want to become a millionaire or more, then you’ll have a better shot SV. If you are really focused on a specific technical topic, then SV, if you are a generalist and enjoy your work but don’t want to live it, then SC is fine.
    - marcinzm 7y ago
      Silicon Valley tech companies pay something like $400-$500k if you're good enough and have 10 years experience. It goes up from there as well but it's harder to get those promotions. I also know people who made that much at 25-ish due to good negotiation (at a pre-IPO late stage startup) or were in a hot field (ML). That's not counting the usual startup lottery. That money can offset cost of living quiet easily.
    - triceratops 7y ago
      > Come out far ahead how? Check out levels.fyi. Moving to the Bay Area to work at a random startup makes little sense, but moving to one of the BigCos can be very financially rewarding. > I'm almost 24 and if I continue to manage my finances correctly, I should have my own spacious home by 25 Check out this comment someone made complaining how high the CoL is in the Bay Area, even for someone making $300k. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22228756 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22228756 Their analysis is flawed and overstates expenses, but even then this hypothetical tech employee saves > $110k/year (including a 401k and match). That's enough to put a down payment on a house in SC every year. If you're investing minded, you could own an apartment building in about 10 years and never have to worry about money again.
      - andrewzah 7y ago
        That's certainly compelling, but it still comes with huge downsides like lack of space, having to live with roommates, not having any family nearby, not being able to work fully remotely, likely not having a healthy work-life balance, etc. If I weren't working remotely, this would be more compelling I think.
- marcinzm 7y ago
  >lower cost of living Cost of living is only relevant compared to the salary you make and SV can pay very well. Quality of life wise most of the SV is a giant suburb so if you like suburbs it's about the same as anywhere else.