6 ms·

> "most prosperous time in history" That is no longer true, at least not here in the US. the most recent adult generation is now the 2nd or 3rd most prosperous

> "most prosperous time in history" That is no longer true, at least not here in the US. the most recent adult generation is now the 2nd or 3rd most prosperous generation and not by such a large margin as everyone thinks. The thinking goes that since GDP per capita is up and productivity is high, that we are much wealthier but it's not true. Even GDP per capita adjusted for PPP can't adequately measure wealth because it uses the wrong basket of goods. if you have a million dollars and you can afford 1000 iphones but a house costs 5 million, then your not wealthy. Wealth is being able to afford the basics of life: Shelter, food and water and by extension: transportation (because you need to get to a job), education (because employers now require it, regardless of whether its useful), and medical insurance because you don't want to loose your shelter. Those 6 things are just as expensive as ever, if not more expensive than ever and the average person is less able to afford them, at least in the coastal cities. Calculate how many hours of work per week it takes to afford shelter. people work longer hours than ever, and nearly 50% of their salary now goes just towards shelter which equates to 20 to 25 hours a week of work just to afford shelter. Was that the case 500 years ago? Yes we've come a long way from 500 years ago, undoubedly we can afford much more food with much greater variety than ever. we eat like kings, dress like kings. But, still live in shelters we can barely afford.

lxmorj 7y ago
This is a really tricky position to take. How exactly do you measure the benefit of video chat with your grandkids every week, no matter how far away you live? Ubiquitous access to the internet?
- novok 7y ago
  It's too subjective, which is why you need to focus on more objective things like those basics mentioned above.
- api 7y ago
  Does that matter much when you are working two jobs to afford rent?
  - briandear 7y ago
    Are most people doing that?
- nugget 7y ago
  This hit home for me when I watched the movie Brooklyn. A hundred years ago, when you emigrated from Europe to America, you often left elderly family behind. You knew there was a high probability you would never see or speak with these relatives again. Your parting could very well be a final goodbye. Technology has certainly closed that gap in a very positive way.
  - lucas_membrane 7y ago
    A hundred and twenty years ago, when you emigrated from Europe to America, you wrote back home and told them that steak was the most popular breakfast in America and that coffee was a luxury good in Europe because America was drinking most of the world's supply.
- austhrow743 7y ago
  Happiness and satisfaction with life ratings. Suicide statistics. Measure between societies that do and don't have access to those things.
- pascalxus 7y ago
  where do you plug in the laptop to make that video chat, when you have no house to stay in? All our modern day luxuries are contingent upon access to basic shelter. That shelter is harder to get than it has been for a long time: at least in the coastal cities - where most of the jobs are.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
cdoxsey 7y ago
And the richest person in the world 30 years ago couldn't afford a single iPhone because it didn't exist. Shelter 500 years ago was barely better than a single-room, unheated hut. And you probably didn't even own it. You were a serf beholden to a feudal lord. (And that feudal lord didn't even have air conditioning) And your food was whatever you could grow. In a good year maybe you made a little more than you needed. In a bad year you starved to death. Even the bottom 1% in the US today have access to far better healthcare than the richest 1% 150 years ago. Antibiotics didn't even exist. All 6 of the things you mentioned are far better off for almost anyone living today. Also maybe wages have stagnanted in the US for this generation, but keep in mind the wealth improvements in the rest of the world have been staggering. Billions of people in India or China have been lifted out of poverty. Focusing on the plight of college educated, middle class young adults seems pretty bizarre when compared with the far greater suffering of so many. Sure strive to make things better... But if your worst trouble in life is having to work 20 hours a week to live in a comfortable apartment in the most expensive and exclusive city in the country... I'd say things were going pretty well for you.
- silenussays 7y ago
  And 500 years ago there was a benign and all powerful god insuring justice in the universe and history. Today the richest billionaire can't bring god back. He's gone. But at least you have an iPhone, and a lot of pills.
  - plussed_reader 7y ago
    Yes, the benign Crusades were just an employment program of Justice.
- whataflag 7y ago
  And 500 years ago there was a benign and all powerful god insuring justice in the universe and history. Today the richest billionaire can't bring god back. He's gone. But at least you have an iPhone, and a lot of pills.
- pascalxus 7y ago
rayiner 7y ago
The first point isn’t true. Median income for millennials is as high as for any previous generation: https://images.app.goo.gl/c1LwKJDCB3diXGfr7 https://images.app.goo.gl/c1LwKJDCB3diXGfr7. Limiting your analysis to “coastal cities” is where I think you go astray. I grew up in the DC suburbs, in Northern Virginia, in a 3BR, 1,100 square foot house that my parents bought for $175,000 ($350,000 adjusted for inflation). Today, that same house is almost $700,000. My parents couldn’t have afforded to buy it today. But it’s also a totally different kind of town. Back in the early 1990s, the town I grew up in was squarely middle class, devoid of trendy restaurants, high end retail, etc. There was no Northern VA tech scene, no Dulles Technology corridor. It might as well have been suburban Ohio. Outside Georgetown, DC itself was a sleepy commuter city full of chain restaurants that closed at 6 pm. There was no Hermès. The Michelin guide didn’t even review restaurants in the city back then. That’s all changed completely. So I don’t feel like comparing the price of housing back then and today is fair. You’re buying a completely different product for your money. Today, a similar place to what Northern VA was like back then would be like Crofton, MD (not to far from where I live in Annapolis). You can easily buy a house like the one I grew up in for a price similar to what my parents paid in 1989 (adjusted for inflation obviously).
- pascalxus 7y ago
  People can't arbitrarily choose where they want to live. People have to go where the jobs are, otherwise there's no money to pay for the house. Having more unaffordable overly fancy michelin star restaraunts nearby doesn't reduce the hardship of not being able to afford shelter. And who needs high end retail when you can't even afford a place to live? How many gucci bags does it take to keep you happy when your stuff is out on the street and you have no place to plug-in your 1200$ iphone? now you might be thinking, we already have shelter and we're not at risk. but the vast majority of people are just a few months away of no paycheck from absolute homelessness. even engineers, often don't have more than a years worth of runway saved up.

lxmorj 7y ago

This is a really tricky position to take. How exactly do you measure the benefit of video chat with your grandkids every week, no matter how far away you live? Ubiquitous access to the internet?

novok 7y ago
It's too subjective, which is why you need to focus on more objective things like those basics mentioned above.
api 7y ago
Does that matter much when you are working two jobs to afford rent?
- briandear 7y ago
  Are most people doing that?
nugget 7y ago
This hit home for me when I watched the movie Brooklyn. A hundred years ago, when you emigrated from Europe to America, you often left elderly family behind. You knew there was a high probability you would never see or speak with these relatives again. Your parting could very well be a final goodbye. Technology has certainly closed that gap in a very positive way.
- lucas_membrane 7y ago
  A hundred and twenty years ago, when you emigrated from Europe to America, you wrote back home and told them that steak was the most popular breakfast in America and that coffee was a luxury good in Europe because America was drinking most of the world's supply.
austhrow743 7y ago
Happiness and satisfaction with life ratings. Suicide statistics. Measure between societies that do and don't have access to those things.
pascalxus 7y ago
where do you plug in the laptop to make that video chat, when you have no house to stay in? All our modern day luxuries are contingent upon access to basic shelter. That shelter is harder to get than it has been for a long time: at least in the coastal cities - where most of the jobs are.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

cdoxsey 7y ago

And the richest person in the world 30 years ago couldn't afford a single iPhone because it didn't exist. Shelter 500 years ago was barely better than a single-room, unheated hut. And you probably didn't even own it. You were a serf beholden to a feudal lord. (And that feudal lord didn't even have air conditioning) And your food was whatever you could grow. In a good year maybe you made a little more than you needed. In a bad year you starved to death. Even the bottom 1% in the US today have access to far better healthcare than the richest 1% 150 years ago. Antibiotics didn't even exist. All 6 of the things you mentioned are far better off for almost anyone living today. Also maybe wages have stagnanted in the US for this generation, but keep in mind the wealth improvements in the rest of the world have been staggering. Billions of people in India or China have been lifted out of poverty. Focusing on the plight of college educated, middle class young adults seems pretty bizarre when compared with the far greater suffering of so many. Sure strive to make things better... But if your worst trouble in life is having to work 20 hours a week to live in a comfortable apartment in the most expensive and exclusive city in the country... I'd say things were going pretty well for you.

silenussays 7y ago
And 500 years ago there was a benign and all powerful god insuring justice in the universe and history. Today the richest billionaire can't bring god back. He's gone. But at least you have an iPhone, and a lot of pills.
- plussed_reader 7y ago
  Yes, the benign Crusades were just an employment program of Justice.
whataflag 7y ago
And 500 years ago there was a benign and all powerful god insuring justice in the universe and history. Today the richest billionaire can't bring god back. He's gone. But at least you have an iPhone, and a lot of pills.
pascalxus 7y ago

rayiner 7y ago

The first point isn’t true. Median income for millennials is as high as for any previous generation: https://images.app.goo.gl/c1LwKJDCB3diXGfr7 https://images.app.goo.gl/c1LwKJDCB3diXGfr7. Limiting your analysis to “coastal cities” is where I think you go astray. I grew up in the DC suburbs, in Northern Virginia, in a 3BR, 1,100 square foot house that my parents bought for $175,000 ($350,000 adjusted for inflation). Today, that same house is almost $700,000. My parents couldn’t have afforded to buy it today. But it’s also a totally different kind of town. Back in the early 1990s, the town I grew up in was squarely middle class, devoid of trendy restaurants, high end retail, etc. There was no Northern VA tech scene, no Dulles Technology corridor. It might as well have been suburban Ohio. Outside Georgetown, DC itself was a sleepy commuter city full of chain restaurants that closed at 6 pm. There was no Hermès. The Michelin guide didn’t even review restaurants in the city back then. That’s all changed completely. So I don’t feel like comparing the price of housing back then and today is fair. You’re buying a completely different product for your money. Today, a similar place to what Northern VA was like back then would be like Crofton, MD (not to far from where I live in Annapolis). You can easily buy a house like the one I grew up in for a price similar to what my parents paid in 1989 (adjusted for inflation obviously).

pascalxus 7y ago
People can't arbitrarily choose where they want to live. People have to go where the jobs are, otherwise there's no money to pay for the house. Having more unaffordable overly fancy michelin star restaraunts nearby doesn't reduce the hardship of not being able to afford shelter. And who needs high end retail when you can't even afford a place to live? How many gucci bags does it take to keep you happy when your stuff is out on the street and you have no place to plug-in your 1200$ iphone? now you might be thinking, we already have shelter and we're not at risk. but the vast majority of people are just a few months away of no paycheck from absolute homelessness. even engineers, often don't have more than a years worth of runway saved up.