7 ms·

As a 20 or so year long linux as a desktop user, I've had my hopes up so many times that more people would embrace Linux. It's always been about the games, lar

by axaxs 7y ago

As a 20 or so year long linux as a desktop user, I've had my hopes up so many times that more people would embrace Linux. It's always been about the games, largely. Hell we had id's stuff running, and there was even a company porting Blizzard stuff if I remember right. This is the first time I've been genuinely enthused that "it's happenening", and I cannot be more thankful to the Wine team and Valve.

clSTophEjUdRanu 7y ago
It's not only games. The Wayland/X/Nvidia fiasco is killin me. To use Wayland and gestures I need to basically ignore the graphics card and run everything via integrated. I love Linux but I also love when things just work and I don't have the time or energy to use my computer as a foss/Linux zealot ideology battleground.
- zozbot234 7y ago
  Many experienced Linux users just avoid any Nvidia hardware at this point. Of course you might be trying to reuse existing hardware, but anything new you can just buy with AMD or Intel.
  - platz 7y ago
    Can you get that on a Lenovo laptop?
    - endemic 7y ago
      Lenovo does make laptops with AMD hardware; some even within the ThinkPad line. e.g. https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpad-t-series/T495s/p/22TP2TT495S https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpad-t-ser...
- dmos62 7y ago
  I'm still trying to reconcile my zealot and pragmatic aspects. One thing that's for sure is that if you're going the Linux route, you have to be smart about the choices you make. It's not permadeath, but the training wheels are off: the choices you make will have more sway than they might on a Windows install. Nvidia/AMD; peripherals; apps without Linux support. You also often have to make compromises, which is an art in itself: how will you deal with something not working when you want it to just work? Personally, I'm working on accepting personal computing as it currently is and trying to let go of wanting to change every second thing. In other words, I'm trying to look at what can be, rather than what could be.
- ta999999171 7y ago
  "Gestures" in/for what? There's always going to be a new proprietary hotness they keep locked away...who cares?
  - ryukafalz 7y ago
    My guess would be for a laptop with a more recent touchpad in e.g. Gnome. It’s not “proprietary hotness,” it’s free software that only works on Wayland because that’s where lots of recent DE development has been. Nvidia users are out of luck; and I do blame Nvidia for this and intend to buy AMD next time.
IshKebab 7y ago
I would say it used to be about games. But now many people use laptops and Linux has pretty terrible support for most of them. It often "works", but you'll usually have some issue with bluetooth or wifi or the trackpad, and good luck getting anywhere near as good battery life as Windows or Mac.
- pmontra 7y ago
  My 12 years experience with HP laptops is no issues with Bluetooth, Wi-Fi, touchpad but, according to kernel releases, brightness control keys not working (workaround: hotkeys to run xbacklight, not every week) or shutdown is actually a reboot (workaround: hold down the power button when it starts rebooting, maybe 2 or 3 times per year.) Not ideal but I still trade those inconveniences with working on Windows, which I do on a few Windows servers of customers that are running some Windows only programs.
- war1025 7y ago
  My wife had an HP laptop going on a decade ago that was terrible with Linux. But we've also since then had three Dell Inspirons and a Thinkpad that all work perfectly fine. I think Linux has been perfectly adequate for "browses the internet" level users for quite a while.
- mixmastamyk 7y ago
  Everything on my Dell just works, including docking station and 4k panels.
- jay_kyburz 7y ago
  Yeah but I found we all have the same problems with Windows these days. I watched a friend struggle to get slack to use the correct camera work on his windows 10 laptop. Another occasion, on a desktop machine problems with microphones. A few months ago I woke up and my Windows 10 desktop just decided to lock up about 10 seconds after showing the desktop. There was nothing I could do to fix it and had to reinstall windows.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
alkonaut 7y ago
Even if I was a linux desktop user otherwise, I’d still prefer booting to a windows partition just to never have to wonder if the drivers are eating 5% of my FPS, or if that recent crash maybe doesn’t happen to everyone and it’s just me seeing it on Linux. Games (of the normal kind) are pretty special in that you literally aren’t doing anything else simultaneously, and you are probably running them long enough that a reboot to run them isn’t a massive overhead. Once in the games I won’t notice that I’m in Windows anyway. Games these days are tightly coupled to the latest drivers. Both Nvidia and AMD mention which issues they fixed or improved for which games on their driver release notes. (All of this post assumes that playing games means recent AAA games. Older games, smaller indie games, or non perf sensitive games obviously are a completely different story)
- siliconpotato 7y ago
  I haven't looked closely at windows for about fifteen years, but back then the antivirus was horrible. I/o and general performance was hideously slow as everything had to be inspected against virus signatures and heuristic analysis. Is that still The same now or you whitelist the AV for games?
  - Fnoord 7y ago
    We run x86-64, with a SSD (SATA2/3, or NVME). I/O should not be a problem anymore, regardless of OS.
  - Kaze404 7y ago
    It is. If you're running windows on an even remotely slow drive, unless you disable Windows defender (which you can only do temporarily through conventional means) the system is barely usable.
- oliwarner 7y ago
  I suspect we value different things because from my perspective that 5% seems entirely worth not putting up with Windows' nonsense. Over and above not needing to shut down everything, or tangle up my system in a complex VM.
neuromute 7y ago
A big thanks also needs to go to Philip Rebohle for his DXVK package, and Joshua Ashton for his D9VK package, both of which are part of the not-so-secret sauce that Proton uses with Wine to get such a good compatibility with an ever increasing list of Windows games. I have huge respect and admiration for their contribution to Linux gaming. Linux gaming is looking pretty healthy now. An obligatory shoutout goes to Ryan C. Gordon (icculus) for this continued contributions to native Linux gaming too (currently working on porting Descent 3). He made it possible for me to play some of my favourite games on Linux well over a decade ago. VR is the one thing I’ve really been wanting on Linux. I held off on buying a Vive for my PC (I have PSVR though), due to the lack of advertised first class support for Linux, but it seems that the Index kit is fully supported on Steam OS. I’d buy the Index kit right now, if it weren’t for the long list of RMA horror stories I keep reading about on /r/ValveIndex. If Valve could improve quality control on their hardware, myself—and I’m sure other Linux users—would be more inclined to purchase it.

by axaxs 7y ago

clSTophEjUdRanu 7y ago

It's not only games. The Wayland/X/Nvidia fiasco is killin me. To use Wayland and gestures I need to basically ignore the graphics card and run everything via integrated. I love Linux but I also love when things just work and I don't have the time or energy to use my computer as a foss/Linux zealot ideology battleground.

zozbot234 7y ago
Many experienced Linux users just avoid any Nvidia hardware at this point. Of course you might be trying to reuse existing hardware, but anything new you can just buy with AMD or Intel.
- platz 7y ago
  Can you get that on a Lenovo laptop?
  - endemic 7y ago
    Lenovo does make laptops with AMD hardware; some even within the ThinkPad line. e.g. https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpad-t-series/T495s/p/22TP2TT495S https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpad-t-ser...
dmos62 7y ago
I'm still trying to reconcile my zealot and pragmatic aspects. One thing that's for sure is that if you're going the Linux route, you have to be smart about the choices you make. It's not permadeath, but the training wheels are off: the choices you make will have more sway than they might on a Windows install. Nvidia/AMD; peripherals; apps without Linux support. You also often have to make compromises, which is an art in itself: how will you deal with something not working when you want it to just work? Personally, I'm working on accepting personal computing as it currently is and trying to let go of wanting to change every second thing. In other words, I'm trying to look at what can be, rather than what could be.
ta999999171 7y ago
"Gestures" in/for what? There's always going to be a new proprietary hotness they keep locked away...who cares?
- ryukafalz 7y ago
  My guess would be for a laptop with a more recent touchpad in e.g. Gnome. It’s not “proprietary hotness,” it’s free software that only works on Wayland because that’s where lots of recent DE development has been. Nvidia users are out of luck; and I do blame Nvidia for this and intend to buy AMD next time.

IshKebab 7y ago

I would say it used to be about games. But now many people use laptops and Linux has pretty terrible support for most of them. It often "works", but you'll usually have some issue with bluetooth or wifi or the trackpad, and good luck getting anywhere near as good battery life as Windows or Mac.

pmontra 7y ago
My 12 years experience with HP laptops is no issues with Bluetooth, Wi-Fi, touchpad but, according to kernel releases, brightness control keys not working (workaround: hotkeys to run xbacklight, not every week) or shutdown is actually a reboot (workaround: hold down the power button when it starts rebooting, maybe 2 or 3 times per year.) Not ideal but I still trade those inconveniences with working on Windows, which I do on a few Windows servers of customers that are running some Windows only programs.
war1025 7y ago
My wife had an HP laptop going on a decade ago that was terrible with Linux. But we've also since then had three Dell Inspirons and a Thinkpad that all work perfectly fine. I think Linux has been perfectly adequate for "browses the internet" level users for quite a while.
mixmastamyk 7y ago
Everything on my Dell just works, including docking station and 4k panels.
jay_kyburz 7y ago
Yeah but I found we all have the same problems with Windows these days. I watched a friend struggle to get slack to use the correct camera work on his windows 10 laptop. Another occasion, on a desktop machine problems with microphones. A few months ago I woke up and my Windows 10 desktop just decided to lock up about 10 seconds after showing the desktop. There was nothing I could do to fix it and had to reinstall windows.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]

alkonaut 7y ago

Even if I was a linux desktop user otherwise, I’d still prefer booting to a windows partition just to never have to wonder if the drivers are eating 5% of my FPS, or if that recent crash maybe doesn’t happen to everyone and it’s just me seeing it on Linux. Games (of the normal kind) are pretty special in that you literally aren’t doing anything else simultaneously, and you are probably running them long enough that a reboot to run them isn’t a massive overhead. Once in the games I won’t notice that I’m in Windows anyway. Games these days are tightly coupled to the latest drivers. Both Nvidia and AMD mention which issues they fixed or improved for which games on their driver release notes. (All of this post assumes that playing games means recent AAA games. Older games, smaller indie games, or non perf sensitive games obviously are a completely different story)

siliconpotato 7y ago
I haven't looked closely at windows for about fifteen years, but back then the antivirus was horrible. I/o and general performance was hideously slow as everything had to be inspected against virus signatures and heuristic analysis. Is that still The same now or you whitelist the AV for games?
- Fnoord 7y ago
  We run x86-64, with a SSD (SATA2/3, or NVME). I/O should not be a problem anymore, regardless of OS.
- Kaze404 7y ago
  It is. If you're running windows on an even remotely slow drive, unless you disable Windows defender (which you can only do temporarily through conventional means) the system is barely usable.
oliwarner 7y ago
I suspect we value different things because from my perspective that 5% seems entirely worth not putting up with Windows' nonsense. Over and above not needing to shut down everything, or tangle up my system in a complex VM.

neuromute 7y ago

A big thanks also needs to go to Philip Rebohle for his DXVK package, and Joshua Ashton for his D9VK package, both of which are part of the not-so-secret sauce that Proton uses with Wine to get such a good compatibility with an ever increasing list of Windows games. I have huge respect and admiration for their contribution to Linux gaming. Linux gaming is looking pretty healthy now. An obligatory shoutout goes to Ryan C. Gordon (icculus) for this continued contributions to native Linux gaming too (currently working on porting Descent 3). He made it possible for me to play some of my favourite games on Linux well over a decade ago. VR is the one thing I’ve really been wanting on Linux. I held off on buying a Vive for my PC (I have PSVR though), due to the lack of advertised first class support for Linux, but it seems that the Index kit is fully supported on Steam OS. I’d buy the Index kit right now, if it weren’t for the long list of RMA horror stories I keep reading about on /r/ValveIndex. If Valve could improve quality control on their hardware, myself—and I’m sure other Linux users—would be more inclined to purchase it.