9 ms·

I'd like to also see an article examining these computing power attributes on the piece of garbage embedded computer on the front of the gas pumps where the lag

by xp84 7y ago

I'd like to also see an article examining these computing power attributes on the piece of garbage embedded computer on the front of the gas pumps where the lag between registering every keypress is like 800ms, and every screen redraw takes about 2000ms. It takes me an extra 60 seconds to get gas now thanks to how slow these things are, and it is nearly universal despite whether they appear to be 20 year old or new devices. > Car Wash Y/N? (wait) > Loyalty (wait) > Fuel Rewards (wait) > Alt ID (wait) > 0005550000 (wait for the numbers to appear on screen. I bet they run Java.

JustSomeNobody 7y ago
> I bet they run Java Probably Electron apps.
- rasz 7y ago
  probably a remote session to node.js app
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
jballer 7y ago
Maybe California mandates the delay to discourage gas consumption...
- fulafel 7y ago
  This could actually be a good mechanism, it disincentivises people of (nearly) all incomes than flat taxes.
kraig911 7y ago
I think they run slower the hotter or colder it is outside.
- kumarvvr 7y ago
  But why? It's not like running at 20 MHz is going to produce an exponential amount of heat in the processor. I mean, an ESP32 module runs at about 160 MHz, and using it with a capacitive touch screen almost as smooth as in a mobile.
  - iancmceachern 7y ago
    I think that at least in some cases it has more to do with the LCD displays refresh rate and its response to cold temperatures. "As the liquid in the display freezes the response time slows down. In other words, it takes longer for the numbers and letters on the display to change (Turn ON or Turn OFF)." Reference: https://focuslcds.com/journals/what-happens-to-the-lcd-in-cold-temperatures/ https://focuslcds.com/journals/what-happens-to-the-lcd-in-co...
Implicated 7y ago
I think about this every time I used one of these machines... isn't it in the businesses best interest to get people through as fast as possible? I have the same experience at grocery stores and convenience stores, I'm always amazed at how slow the machines are with such seemingly simple tasks.
- judge2020 7y ago
  The machines on brand new gas stations and self-checkouts are much faster [also support mobile payment], but performing upgrades to older systems usually isn't worth the cost since they're only at max. throughput for a few hours every week, if that.
  - freeqaz 7y ago
    The new ones play video ads and (some at least) have audio that you can't disable too (spotted in New Mexico). Truly baffling! Hopefully not all of the machines are that bad. I wish that common point-of-sale interfaces focused on simplicity and ease of use (especially accessibility). Maybe one day!
    - enchiridion 7y ago
      Some of the unmarked buttons on those machines will mute the ads. Depends on the model.
  - dna_polymerase 7y ago
    Saving a few seconds is only the immediately measurable effect of such an investment, but as you can see in this post it seems the added friction is a major headache for people, and removing it may have long term customer loyalty effects.
  - StillBored 7y ago
    I find its the opposite, in the US they weren't this slow when they were rolling out 20 years ago. Probably 10-15 years ago they started to get a lot slower, they went from basically instant to increasingly laggy. Gas stations have been rolling out chip aware ones for the past couple years and overwhelmingly they seem fairly laggy. It seems like there are a couple brands that are faster, and the rest are timeslicing 10k pumps inputs on a mainframe in new jersy (ok that's a joke but wouldn't surprise me if they are javascript based and round-tripping over dial-up to a linux machine fronting a AS400 or something).
kumarvvr 7y ago
Even my car has a touchscreen that requires, on average about 1 second to register a touch. I mean, a replacement capacitive touch screen for my samsung mobile is like 2000 Rs. (30 USD) Its frustrating how far we have come and yet how behind we are.
- Goz3rr 7y ago
  I doubt your average phone screen would be happy being left in 80+ °C for prolonged periods of time. Automotive grade exists for a reason, as Tesla[1] found out the hard way. [1]: https://www.thedrive.com/tech/27989/teslas-screen-saga-shows-why-automotive-grade-matters https://www.thedrive.com/tech/27989/teslas-screen-saga-shows...
  - numpad0 7y ago
    That’s not an excuse for shitty experience, that’s materials cost/part performance justification. Think first-gen iPhone: by now it’s worse in performance compared to better infotainment, but infotainment still sucks.
aloknnikhil 7y ago
It's exceptionally slow on some days and quite variable. That makes me think it's "phoning home" using the GPRS gateway for every keypress, almost as if the menu items need to be generated dynamically.
lunias 7y ago
You forgot: Would you like a receipt? (wait) It makes no sense at all. As soon as you input payment it should output gas. There's really no need for buttons or a screen at all (well, maybe except for entering a zip). If they really have to show all that stuff, it can come after I have my gas. Note: languages aren't slow, it's the programs that are slow.
- seszett 7y ago
  I'm a bit surprised to see the comments here on automated gas station pumps. I've used quite a few different ones in a few different countries of Europe (where I go outside Europe, usually the stations are not automated so I can't compare) and I have never had this kind of slow experience. Here in Belgium I don't even get asked if I want a receipt, I can just ask it afterwards if I like (just like for the rewards card). The worst I've had were in store French supermarket stations where for a while they had audio ads playing while you were filling up, that was absolutely horrible and I stopped going there. Eventually those things went away. But the interface itself always asks for the least possible things. Diesel/gasoline 95/gasoline 98 then the card PIN, and you can fill up.
  - clarry 7y ago
    > But the interface itself always asks for the least possible things. Diesel/gasoline 95/gasoline 98 then the card PIN, and you can fill up. In Finland, they don't even ask what you're going to pump. You just grab the right nozzle and go.
    - lunias 7y ago
      In the US there are separate buttons to select the grade of gasoline (I always push them to see if I can just bypass all the nonsense, but alas it doesn't work that way). The screens are an add-on gatekeeper that disables the grade selection until all its questions have been answered (NO, NO, NO, NO).
      - StillBored 7y ago
stevenwoo 7y ago
I’ve seen a few with the Windows BSOD but not enough info to figure out what’s otherwise going on.
- nolok 7y ago
  Like atm and other common access point : used to be windows ce under the hood. Since the new line it can be windows 10 now, it's lightweight / embed version offers a kiosk mode (pick an app and the account at boot auto login and auto start the app and refuse anything that takes focus from the app basically... Except when something crash then you might see the underlying parts)
Corrado 7y ago
Funny you should mention this. I regularly use the gas pumps at our local chain grocery store (Kroger) at two different locations; one with old pumps and one with new pumps. Originally the displays were very snappy and I could get in and out pretty quickly. About a year ago they updated the software on the "new" pumps and it got very, very slow (along with some questionable font choices). It was so bad that I went out of my way to visit the "old" pumps more frequently. Unfortunately, the old pumps were eventually "upgraded" and I now have to deal with crappy gas pump software everywhere. So, I don't think it's based on the age of the pump. I'm guessing that there is a pretty standard architecture that they all adhere to. So yeah, I bet they run Java. BTW: I've noticed this same thing with ATM software. I'm pretty sure they run Java as well.
- TheOtherHobbes 7y ago
  Our local ATMs are slow because they pause to show ads. "Please wait" is a deliberate feature, not a bug.
refurb 7y ago
This reminds me of back in the 90’s when the store I worked at replaced an old electronic cash register with one run by a computer. It was so slow and I had no idea why. The display was a standard text screen of 40 x 80. The math is dead simple and the only other thing it did was open the cash drawer. The computer was a 486-40MHz so better than the one I had a home that ran Ultimate 7 just fine.
nolok 7y ago
Weren't a lot of those windows ce back in the day? So regular c/cpp/... Apps under the hood, just terrible ones and on asthmatic hardware
- numpad0 7y ago
  Windows Phone 7 was ecstatically phenomenal though, despite being CE based.
dTal 7y ago
Java is quite fast. In general, for 99% of tasks, if it takes more than a few milliseconds there's a network involved.
stevenjgarner 7y ago
I wonder if any of that performance is due to the intrinsic safety requirements, especially the need to select only intrinsically safe components that will never produce enough energy to ignite gasoline vapors under any transient condition - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intrinsic_safety https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intrinsic_safety
- takeda 7y ago
  Yet, they can process data fast enough to display video ads. I don't think this is the reason.
garaetjjte 7y ago
>I bet they run Java. And maybe it runs on Windows CE device with anemic CPU.. On aside.. fuel pumps with embedded computers and payment terminals are US thing? There it is necessary to pay at the cashier after filling. (and it is most annoying part, because they try to upsell you hotdog/coffee, washer fluid and encourage to join loyalty program)
- HocusLocus 7y ago
  "Would you like to join our customer loyalty reward program?" "No, I'm just naturally loyal. Runs in the family."

by xp84 7y ago

JustSomeNobody 7y ago

> I bet they run Java Probably Electron apps.

rasz 7y ago
probably a remote session to node.js app
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

jballer 7y ago

Maybe California mandates the delay to discourage gas consumption...

fulafel 7y ago
This could actually be a good mechanism, it disincentivises people of (nearly) all incomes than flat taxes.

kraig911 7y ago

I think they run slower the hotter or colder it is outside.

kumarvvr 7y ago
But why? It's not like running at 20 MHz is going to produce an exponential amount of heat in the processor. I mean, an ESP32 module runs at about 160 MHz, and using it with a capacitive touch screen almost as smooth as in a mobile.
- iancmceachern 7y ago
  I think that at least in some cases it has more to do with the LCD displays refresh rate and its response to cold temperatures. "As the liquid in the display freezes the response time slows down. In other words, it takes longer for the numbers and letters on the display to change (Turn ON or Turn OFF)." Reference: https://focuslcds.com/journals/what-happens-to-the-lcd-in-cold-temperatures/ https://focuslcds.com/journals/what-happens-to-the-lcd-in-co...

Implicated 7y ago

I think about this every time I used one of these machines... isn't it in the businesses best interest to get people through as fast as possible? I have the same experience at grocery stores and convenience stores, I'm always amazed at how slow the machines are with such seemingly simple tasks.

judge2020 7y ago
The machines on brand new gas stations and self-checkouts are much faster [also support mobile payment], but performing upgrades to older systems usually isn't worth the cost since they're only at max. throughput for a few hours every week, if that.
- freeqaz 7y ago
  The new ones play video ads and (some at least) have audio that you can't disable too (spotted in New Mexico). Truly baffling! Hopefully not all of the machines are that bad. I wish that common point-of-sale interfaces focused on simplicity and ease of use (especially accessibility). Maybe one day!
  - enchiridion 7y ago
    Some of the unmarked buttons on those machines will mute the ads. Depends on the model.
- dna_polymerase 7y ago
  Saving a few seconds is only the immediately measurable effect of such an investment, but as you can see in this post it seems the added friction is a major headache for people, and removing it may have long term customer loyalty effects.
- StillBored 7y ago
  I find its the opposite, in the US they weren't this slow when they were rolling out 20 years ago. Probably 10-15 years ago they started to get a lot slower, they went from basically instant to increasingly laggy. Gas stations have been rolling out chip aware ones for the past couple years and overwhelmingly they seem fairly laggy. It seems like there are a couple brands that are faster, and the rest are timeslicing 10k pumps inputs on a mainframe in new jersy (ok that's a joke but wouldn't surprise me if they are javascript based and round-tripping over dial-up to a linux machine fronting a AS400 or something).

kumarvvr 7y ago

Even my car has a touchscreen that requires, on average about 1 second to register a touch. I mean, a replacement capacitive touch screen for my samsung mobile is like 2000 Rs. (30 USD) Its frustrating how far we have come and yet how behind we are.

Goz3rr 7y ago
I doubt your average phone screen would be happy being left in 80+ °C for prolonged periods of time. Automotive grade exists for a reason, as Tesla[1] found out the hard way. [1]: https://www.thedrive.com/tech/27989/teslas-screen-saga-shows-why-automotive-grade-matters https://www.thedrive.com/tech/27989/teslas-screen-saga-shows...
- numpad0 7y ago
  That’s not an excuse for shitty experience, that’s materials cost/part performance justification. Think first-gen iPhone: by now it’s worse in performance compared to better infotainment, but infotainment still sucks.

aloknnikhil 7y ago

It's exceptionally slow on some days and quite variable. That makes me think it's "phoning home" using the GPRS gateway for every keypress, almost as if the menu items need to be generated dynamically.

lunias 7y ago

You forgot: Would you like a receipt? (wait) It makes no sense at all. As soon as you input payment it should output gas. There's really no need for buttons or a screen at all (well, maybe except for entering a zip). If they really have to show all that stuff, it can come after I have my gas. Note: languages aren't slow, it's the programs that are slow.

seszett 7y ago
I'm a bit surprised to see the comments here on automated gas station pumps. I've used quite a few different ones in a few different countries of Europe (where I go outside Europe, usually the stations are not automated so I can't compare) and I have never had this kind of slow experience. Here in Belgium I don't even get asked if I want a receipt, I can just ask it afterwards if I like (just like for the rewards card). The worst I've had were in store French supermarket stations where for a while they had audio ads playing while you were filling up, that was absolutely horrible and I stopped going there. Eventually those things went away. But the interface itself always asks for the least possible things. Diesel/gasoline 95/gasoline 98 then the card PIN, and you can fill up.
- clarry 7y ago
  > But the interface itself always asks for the least possible things. Diesel/gasoline 95/gasoline 98 then the card PIN, and you can fill up. In Finland, they don't even ask what you're going to pump. You just grab the right nozzle and go.
  - lunias 7y ago
    In the US there are separate buttons to select the grade of gasoline (I always push them to see if I can just bypass all the nonsense, but alas it doesn't work that way). The screens are an add-on gatekeeper that disables the grade selection until all its questions have been answered (NO, NO, NO, NO).
    - StillBored 7y ago

stevenwoo 7y ago

I’ve seen a few with the Windows BSOD but not enough info to figure out what’s otherwise going on.

nolok 7y ago
Like atm and other common access point : used to be windows ce under the hood. Since the new line it can be windows 10 now, it's lightweight / embed version offers a kiosk mode (pick an app and the account at boot auto login and auto start the app and refuse anything that takes focus from the app basically... Except when something crash then you might see the underlying parts)

Corrado 7y ago

Funny you should mention this. I regularly use the gas pumps at our local chain grocery store (Kroger) at two different locations; one with old pumps and one with new pumps. Originally the displays were very snappy and I could get in and out pretty quickly. About a year ago they updated the software on the "new" pumps and it got very, very slow (along with some questionable font choices). It was so bad that I went out of my way to visit the "old" pumps more frequently. Unfortunately, the old pumps were eventually "upgraded" and I now have to deal with crappy gas pump software everywhere. So, I don't think it's based on the age of the pump. I'm guessing that there is a pretty standard architecture that they all adhere to. So yeah, I bet they run Java. BTW: I've noticed this same thing with ATM software. I'm pretty sure they run Java as well.

TheOtherHobbes 7y ago
Our local ATMs are slow because they pause to show ads. "Please wait" is a deliberate feature, not a bug.

refurb 7y ago

This reminds me of back in the 90’s when the store I worked at replaced an old electronic cash register with one run by a computer. It was so slow and I had no idea why. The display was a standard text screen of 40 x 80. The math is dead simple and the only other thing it did was open the cash drawer. The computer was a 486-40MHz so better than the one I had a home that ran Ultimate 7 just fine.

nolok 7y ago

Weren't a lot of those windows ce back in the day? So regular c/cpp/... Apps under the hood, just terrible ones and on asthmatic hardware

numpad0 7y ago
Windows Phone 7 was ecstatically phenomenal though, despite being CE based.

dTal 7y ago

Java is quite fast. In general, for 99% of tasks, if it takes more than a few milliseconds there's a network involved.

stevenjgarner 7y ago

I wonder if any of that performance is due to the intrinsic safety requirements, especially the need to select only intrinsically safe components that will never produce enough energy to ignite gasoline vapors under any transient condition - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intrinsic_safety https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intrinsic_safety

takeda 7y ago
Yet, they can process data fast enough to display video ads. I don't think this is the reason.

garaetjjte 7y ago

>I bet they run Java. And maybe it runs on Windows CE device with anemic CPU.. On aside.. fuel pumps with embedded computers and payment terminals are US thing? There it is necessary to pay at the cashier after filling. (and it is most annoying part, because they try to upsell you hotdog/coffee, washer fluid and encourage to join loyalty program)

HocusLocus 7y ago
"Would you like to join our customer loyalty reward program?" "No, I'm just naturally loyal. Runs in the family."