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I spent an hour yesterday with two different websites trying to place an order on Firefox (to name and shame, CVS and shutterfly). I eventually gave up and used

I spent an hour yesterday with two different websites trying to place an order on Firefox (to name and shame, CVS and shutterfly). I eventually gave up and used Chrome to place an order, but sent a note telling CVS that they lost my business because their website is broken on Firefox. Please, more people switch to Firefox. Chrome is breaking the internet.

Scarbutt 7y ago
Is likely they know this and the costs of supporting firefox doesn't outweigh the benefits for them.
- diag 7y ago
  What's the benefit of breaking services for a subset of your customers? I can't think of any.
  - snazz 7y ago
    They’re not intentionally breaking anything, they’re just making it work exclusively with Chromium by not testing under Firefox. It saves them time and money.
_bxg1 7y ago
Something I realized recently is that all of these sites have analytics. They can see exactly what percentage of their users are on Firefox, and that will directly drive their dev priorities. Using Firefox isn't just a symbolic gesture; it's a direct vote in its favor.
- dexen 7y ago
  >all of these sites have analytics. The analytics is most likely blocked by common adblock rules. And present-day Firefox users are quite likely to be advanced users, running adblock. Thus Firefox ends up being under-represented in the analytics.
  - ohazi 7y ago
    Do as blockers typically block the user agent? Or have people just gotten lazy and only bother looking at JavaScript generated analytics logs and not actual server logs? Or have user agents devolved to the point where every browser lists every other browser and you genuinely can't tell them apart anymore? Seems like you should still be able to identify the browser without a fancy analytics package.
    - dblohm7 7y ago
      > Or have people just gotten lazy and only bother looking at JavaScript generated analytics logs and not actual server logs? Yes
    - PeterisP 7y ago
      > have people just gotten lazy and only bother looking at JavaScript generated analytics logs and not actual server logs? Yes. On the other hand, if you're running adblock, many sites probably don't care how and if the site works for you.
      - marcosdumay 7y ago
        Sites that are directly taking your money should care. Or, at least, I would expect them to, but they don't seem to care at all.
- matthewbauer 7y ago
  Recently there has been a push to remove user agents since it tends to make tracking easier. You should make sure firefox is still identifiable.
- thdrdt 7y ago
  Well because a lot of Firefox users block analytics they won't show up in the stats. And by the way: it is estimated that 60% of all internet users block analytics. So take your stats with a grain of salt.
  - hastes 7y ago
    > it is estimated that 60% of all internet users block analytics. So take your stats with a grain of salt. Source?
AnIdiotOnTheNet 7y ago
I will switch to Firefox as soon as I am convinced it is a better option. It has been my experience that it is slower and more broken than Chrome, and despite promises of respecting users has a history violating user trust. Plus, there was that one time they fired a guy for having a fetish.
jlmorton 7y ago
Possible you have strict tracking protection enabled? Firefox is pretty clear this may break some websites.
- neltnerb 7y ago
  Nah, I don't set it to strict, and turned off the new Enhanced Tracking Prevention that's on by default. And all extensions were either disabled or set to permit everything on both sites. But I didn't reset my browser or start it in safe mode just to give a company my business. It is totally possible that the "problem is on my side" but they still lost my business. There's only so much effort I'm willing to put into purchasing from a company if I can't use their website. Most places work fine, both of these didn't. I normally just find a company that has a better website to give my money to instead.
krn 7y ago
> Please, more people switch to Firefox. Chrome is breaking the internet. I have tried to switch to Firefox multiple times, but I couldn't stand how much slower it felt than Brave, especially on Android. I also prefer the minimalistic interface of Chromium, and run Brave with its "Rewards" feature turned off.
- neltnerb 7y ago
  Oh, I meant on my desktop. I use Firefox Focus or Firefox Preview on my phone and if Focus doesn't work I've yet to personally find Firefox Preview to be slow. YMMV of course. Firefox has a long way to go it seems on mobile.
ycombonator 7y ago
CVS is an outsourced shop, stripped to the bone. All their IT jobs have left Rhode Island over the years to be replaced by “managed services”. It’s highly unlikely they will read your feedback.
digitarald 7y ago
Please report those via webcompat.com – Firefox's compat team will always follow up and learn more how to close the platform gap that causes the issues but also reach out to the devs.
driverdan 7y ago
Are you sure something isn't wrong on your end? The only time I have trouble is when NoScript breaks things and that's to be expected.
- neltnerb 7y ago
  No, not sure, but I disabled adblock, cookie deletion, noscript, cross-website cookie trackers, etc. Pretty much disabled every extension in my efforts with no luck. It's possible it would have eventually worked if I started the browser in safe mode or something, but this doesn't seem reasonable to me to do to be able to give them money.

Scarbutt 7y ago

Is likely they know this and the costs of supporting firefox doesn't outweigh the benefits for them.

diag 7y ago
What's the benefit of breaking services for a subset of your customers? I can't think of any.
- snazz 7y ago
  They’re not intentionally breaking anything, they’re just making it work exclusively with Chromium by not testing under Firefox. It saves them time and money.

_bxg1 7y ago

Something I realized recently is that all of these sites have analytics. They can see exactly what percentage of their users are on Firefox, and that will directly drive their dev priorities. Using Firefox isn't just a symbolic gesture; it's a direct vote in its favor.

dexen 7y ago
>all of these sites have analytics. The analytics is most likely blocked by common adblock rules. And present-day Firefox users are quite likely to be advanced users, running adblock. Thus Firefox ends up being under-represented in the analytics.
- ohazi 7y ago
  Do as blockers typically block the user agent? Or have people just gotten lazy and only bother looking at JavaScript generated analytics logs and not actual server logs? Or have user agents devolved to the point where every browser lists every other browser and you genuinely can't tell them apart anymore? Seems like you should still be able to identify the browser without a fancy analytics package.
  - dblohm7 7y ago
    > Or have people just gotten lazy and only bother looking at JavaScript generated analytics logs and not actual server logs? Yes
  - PeterisP 7y ago
    > have people just gotten lazy and only bother looking at JavaScript generated analytics logs and not actual server logs? Yes. On the other hand, if you're running adblock, many sites probably don't care how and if the site works for you.
    - marcosdumay 7y ago
      Sites that are directly taking your money should care. Or, at least, I would expect them to, but they don't seem to care at all.
matthewbauer 7y ago
Recently there has been a push to remove user agents since it tends to make tracking easier. You should make sure firefox is still identifiable.
thdrdt 7y ago
Well because a lot of Firefox users block analytics they won't show up in the stats. And by the way: it is estimated that 60% of all internet users block analytics. So take your stats with a grain of salt.
- hastes 7y ago
  > it is estimated that 60% of all internet users block analytics. So take your stats with a grain of salt. Source?

AnIdiotOnTheNet 7y ago

I will switch to Firefox as soon as I am convinced it is a better option. It has been my experience that it is slower and more broken than Chrome, and despite promises of respecting users has a history violating user trust. Plus, there was that one time they fired a guy for having a fetish.

jlmorton 7y ago

Possible you have strict tracking protection enabled? Firefox is pretty clear this may break some websites.

neltnerb 7y ago
Nah, I don't set it to strict, and turned off the new Enhanced Tracking Prevention that's on by default. And all extensions were either disabled or set to permit everything on both sites. But I didn't reset my browser or start it in safe mode just to give a company my business. It is totally possible that the "problem is on my side" but they still lost my business. There's only so much effort I'm willing to put into purchasing from a company if I can't use their website. Most places work fine, both of these didn't. I normally just find a company that has a better website to give my money to instead.

krn 7y ago

> Please, more people switch to Firefox. Chrome is breaking the internet. I have tried to switch to Firefox multiple times, but I couldn't stand how much slower it felt than Brave, especially on Android. I also prefer the minimalistic interface of Chromium, and run Brave with its "Rewards" feature turned off.

neltnerb 7y ago
Oh, I meant on my desktop. I use Firefox Focus or Firefox Preview on my phone and if Focus doesn't work I've yet to personally find Firefox Preview to be slow. YMMV of course. Firefox has a long way to go it seems on mobile.

ycombonator 7y ago

CVS is an outsourced shop, stripped to the bone. All their IT jobs have left Rhode Island over the years to be replaced by “managed services”. It’s highly unlikely they will read your feedback.

digitarald 7y ago

Please report those via webcompat.com – Firefox's compat team will always follow up and learn more how to close the platform gap that causes the issues but also reach out to the devs.

driverdan 7y ago

Are you sure something isn't wrong on your end? The only time I have trouble is when NoScript breaks things and that's to be expected.

neltnerb 7y ago
No, not sure, but I disabled adblock, cookie deletion, noscript, cross-website cookie trackers, etc. Pretty much disabled every extension in my efforts with no luck. It's possible it would have eventually worked if I started the browser in safe mode or something, but this doesn't seem reasonable to me to do to be able to give them money.