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I did this last year on a 10 year old Camry, bought the car fax, paid for a pre-purchase inspection, everything checked out. Six months later, a major electric

I did this last year on a 10 year old Camry, bought the car fax, paid for a pre-purchase inspection, everything checked out. Six months later, a major electrical issue damaged a significant portion of the internal computer system, which cost almost as much to fix as the car was worth. Almost $8k down the drain in 6 months. You’re always rolling the dice on an old car, no matter how much research and prep you do.

danmg 7y ago
Sounds like unreported flood damage.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
neogodless 7y ago
I don't know the real statistics, but typically buying a 10 year old Camry is rolling a 100-sided dice and unless you roll a 1 or a 2, you're fine. You just had a particularly unlucky roll. For most people, over a lifetime of buying cars (say 60 years) buying the $15k car (at today's prices) every 5 years vs $30k new car every 5 years will save them $180k. You can replace a lot of computer systems with the savings (ignoring even more savings with insurance, etc.)
- baumandm 7y ago
  I also don't know the real statistics, but I don't think it's fair to assume the used car will last the same as a new car. If new cars cost $30k and last 10 years, and used cars cost $15k and last 5 years, you break even. Alternately if you always trade-in your car after 5 years to buy a new car, you'll end up paying a lot less than $30k each time.
  - neogodless 7y ago
    Yup, you got it. No assumption here that the car itself will only last 5 years. Just that people have their habits. If they weren't willing to buy a 5 year old car over their brand new car, they're also likely to want a new car when their current one is 5 years old. Of course, lots of people make better (in my opinion) decisions than that. But then they aren't the ones that need to understand where rationalizing spending money isn't actual logical.
  - Spivak 7y ago
    I feel like I'm going mad in this thread. You buy a reliable used car with ~30k miles for half of the cost of buying new and then drive it until you hit 150k+ miles. Where are you buying cars where you're only getting a 50% discount from new with half of the cars useful life spent?
    - neogodless 7y ago
      Indeed! I got a car with ~8k miles for 30% less than new. And it's a budget hatchback, not a rapidly depreciating German luxury sedan.
  - alphabettsy 7y ago
    Obviously because this is nonsense.
- save_ferris 7y ago
  > I don't know the real statistics, but typically buying a 10 year old Camry is rolling a 100-sided dice and unless you roll a 1 or a 2, you're fine. You just had a particularly unlucky roll. Without concrete data to support this, it's absurd to suggest that any vehicle has a mean failure rate of just 1-2% after 10 years on the road. Years of being subjected to the elements (extreme elements in certain parts of the country), normal wear, etc. constantly cause failures in older vehicles.
  - neogodless 7y ago
    I'll say I partially agree with you. First, of course without data it's anecdotal at best, and feelings at worst! I certainly feel like Toyotas last forever. That is, of course, variable on a lot of factors. I've seen average miles per year range from 10,000 to 15,000. Assuming the high end, 10 years would take us to 150,000 miles. Well-maintained models would likely still be running, but maintenance would have increased beyond brakes, spark plugs, etc. to alternators, timing belts/chains, water pumps, exhaust, radiators... they add up. But more to my point, second - I'm talking about Big Failures like a very expensive CPU system or an engine or transmission. Those aren't likely to die before 150,000 in a reliable vehicle, and the Camry is one of the best.
AnIdiotOnTheNet 7y ago
To add my own anecdote: I've never paid more than $3k for a car. Worst case that has occurred so far is that my most recent one threw a rod less than a year after owning it and I had to spend another $2.5k on replacing the engine. So now I'm $5k down, but that's still a hell of a lot better off than $10-$15k let alone $50k or whatever the fuck insane price new cars are these days.
- dirktheman 7y ago
  Same here. I usually get 10-15 year old Japanese cars, and I'm fairly capable of identifying major flaws during a test ride. I spend 2500-3000 euros on the car, and another 500-1000 to get it sorted. Our last family car, a Mitsubishi Grandis, lasted 6 years without major repairs. We traded it on for our new car, a Mitsubishi Grandis, and I got 1000 euros for the Space Wagon. The Grandis is still going strong after 5 years and no major bills other than regular maintenance. It's just beyond me why people would buy a brand new car on loan. Only if you're poor/living from paycheck to paycheck and absolutely rely on a car to get to your job I understand why it would make sense on some level to get a car loan.
  - Raidion 7y ago
    There are a ton of reasons taking a loan is better than buying outright if you have any sort of risk tolerance and you can get a low APR. Over 5 years, on a 20k car, inflation would have eaten ~2k purchasing power of the loan, while the car's value isn't affected. 2014-2019, S&P500 has returned >10% (inflation adjusted). AND you can always trade money for a lien free car, but it's a lot harder to trade the car for money (you're gonna still need a car and title for loan deals aren't great). Taking a loan out for the car means I'm buying a 20k car for 18k, being able to return 10% a year on the money I borrowed, with the ability to pay off the car anytime I want. Buying a car in cash is for those who can't get a low APR loan and/or are too risk averse to use debt properly.
    - scarface74 7y ago
      You’re not going to get a low apr on a 7 year loan - the entire subject of the submission.
imtringued 7y ago
Why would that money be down the drain? You're talking as if the car is still broken.
- save_ferris 7y ago
  The cost to repair was around $5k, which is a very large amount of money to put into such an old car. The vehicle also subsequently lost most of it's trade-in value when this issue appeared, which completely contradicted the entire argument that old cars retain their value better. They only do as long as they don't have any issues.
auiya 7y ago
Laughs in 15-year-old BMW
dcchambers 7y ago
> You’re always rolling the dice on an old car That's why I like certified pre-owned. It's the sweet spot between new and used IMO. Get a car that is just a couple years old (often from a trade or a lease), an extended manufacturer's warrenty, and let the original owner take the major hit on depreciation.
gbrown 7y ago
You can mitigate this by purchasing something pre-owned certified or equivalent. When I bought my used Volt, I had to bring in a print out that indicated the particular car was indeed already listed as certified for them to honor it, but it ended up being useful when the Transmission Control Module went out and needed to be replaced. I got the impression they list everything as pre-owned certified on the website and then try to up-charge people for it in person, without actually doing any of the supposed checks. On the other hand, if you can get it the warranty should help with any gremlins in the first few years.
- coredog64 7y ago
  You’re not going to get a certified used vehicle that is 10 years old. You might get one as old as 5 years, but I would expect most to be 2 or 3. Certified used vehicles are also significantly more expensive than a used vehicle and a warranty, and Consumer Reports recommends the latter.
JMTQp8lwXL 7y ago
CarMax typically doesn't sell cars that old. 3-5 years is their typical upper age. The odds of a major issue with a car that's only half as old, I'd imagine, are lower.
- scarface74 7y ago
  They will sell cars older. We are looking at some as old as 2010 for our son now.

danmg 7y ago

Sounds like unreported flood damage.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

neogodless 7y ago

I don't know the real statistics, but typically buying a 10 year old Camry is rolling a 100-sided dice and unless you roll a 1 or a 2, you're fine. You just had a particularly unlucky roll. For most people, over a lifetime of buying cars (say 60 years) buying the $15k car (at today's prices) every 5 years vs $30k new car every 5 years will save them $180k. You can replace a lot of computer systems with the savings (ignoring even more savings with insurance, etc.)

baumandm 7y ago
I also don't know the real statistics, but I don't think it's fair to assume the used car will last the same as a new car. If new cars cost $30k and last 10 years, and used cars cost $15k and last 5 years, you break even. Alternately if you always trade-in your car after 5 years to buy a new car, you'll end up paying a lot less than $30k each time.
- neogodless 7y ago
  Yup, you got it. No assumption here that the car itself will only last 5 years. Just that people have their habits. If they weren't willing to buy a 5 year old car over their brand new car, they're also likely to want a new car when their current one is 5 years old. Of course, lots of people make better (in my opinion) decisions than that. But then they aren't the ones that need to understand where rationalizing spending money isn't actual logical.
- Spivak 7y ago
  I feel like I'm going mad in this thread. You buy a reliable used car with ~30k miles for half of the cost of buying new and then drive it until you hit 150k+ miles. Where are you buying cars where you're only getting a 50% discount from new with half of the cars useful life spent?
  - neogodless 7y ago
    Indeed! I got a car with ~8k miles for 30% less than new. And it's a budget hatchback, not a rapidly depreciating German luxury sedan.
- alphabettsy 7y ago
  Obviously because this is nonsense.
save_ferris 7y ago
> I don't know the real statistics, but typically buying a 10 year old Camry is rolling a 100-sided dice and unless you roll a 1 or a 2, you're fine. You just had a particularly unlucky roll. Without concrete data to support this, it's absurd to suggest that any vehicle has a mean failure rate of just 1-2% after 10 years on the road. Years of being subjected to the elements (extreme elements in certain parts of the country), normal wear, etc. constantly cause failures in older vehicles.
- neogodless 7y ago
  I'll say I partially agree with you. First, of course without data it's anecdotal at best, and feelings at worst! I certainly feel like Toyotas last forever. That is, of course, variable on a lot of factors. I've seen average miles per year range from 10,000 to 15,000. Assuming the high end, 10 years would take us to 150,000 miles. Well-maintained models would likely still be running, but maintenance would have increased beyond brakes, spark plugs, etc. to alternators, timing belts/chains, water pumps, exhaust, radiators... they add up. But more to my point, second - I'm talking about Big Failures like a very expensive CPU system or an engine or transmission. Those aren't likely to die before 150,000 in a reliable vehicle, and the Camry is one of the best.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 7y ago

To add my own anecdote: I've never paid more than $3k for a car. Worst case that has occurred so far is that my most recent one threw a rod less than a year after owning it and I had to spend another $2.5k on replacing the engine. So now I'm $5k down, but that's still a hell of a lot better off than $10-$15k let alone $50k or whatever the fuck insane price new cars are these days.

dirktheman 7y ago
Same here. I usually get 10-15 year old Japanese cars, and I'm fairly capable of identifying major flaws during a test ride. I spend 2500-3000 euros on the car, and another 500-1000 to get it sorted. Our last family car, a Mitsubishi Grandis, lasted 6 years without major repairs. We traded it on for our new car, a Mitsubishi Grandis, and I got 1000 euros for the Space Wagon. The Grandis is still going strong after 5 years and no major bills other than regular maintenance. It's just beyond me why people would buy a brand new car on loan. Only if you're poor/living from paycheck to paycheck and absolutely rely on a car to get to your job I understand why it would make sense on some level to get a car loan.
- Raidion 7y ago
  There are a ton of reasons taking a loan is better than buying outright if you have any sort of risk tolerance and you can get a low APR. Over 5 years, on a 20k car, inflation would have eaten ~2k purchasing power of the loan, while the car's value isn't affected. 2014-2019, S&P500 has returned >10% (inflation adjusted). AND you can always trade money for a lien free car, but it's a lot harder to trade the car for money (you're gonna still need a car and title for loan deals aren't great). Taking a loan out for the car means I'm buying a 20k car for 18k, being able to return 10% a year on the money I borrowed, with the ability to pay off the car anytime I want. Buying a car in cash is for those who can't get a low APR loan and/or are too risk averse to use debt properly.
  - scarface74 7y ago
    You’re not going to get a low apr on a 7 year loan - the entire subject of the submission.

imtringued 7y ago

Why would that money be down the drain? You're talking as if the car is still broken.

save_ferris 7y ago
The cost to repair was around $5k, which is a very large amount of money to put into such an old car. The vehicle also subsequently lost most of it's trade-in value when this issue appeared, which completely contradicted the entire argument that old cars retain their value better. They only do as long as they don't have any issues.

auiya 7y ago

Laughs in 15-year-old BMW

dcchambers 7y ago

> You’re always rolling the dice on an old car That's why I like certified pre-owned. It's the sweet spot between new and used IMO. Get a car that is just a couple years old (often from a trade or a lease), an extended manufacturer's warrenty, and let the original owner take the major hit on depreciation.

gbrown 7y ago

You can mitigate this by purchasing something pre-owned certified or equivalent. When I bought my used Volt, I had to bring in a print out that indicated the particular car was indeed already listed as certified for them to honor it, but it ended up being useful when the Transmission Control Module went out and needed to be replaced. I got the impression they list everything as pre-owned certified on the website and then try to up-charge people for it in person, without actually doing any of the supposed checks. On the other hand, if you can get it the warranty should help with any gremlins in the first few years.

coredog64 7y ago
You’re not going to get a certified used vehicle that is 10 years old. You might get one as old as 5 years, but I would expect most to be 2 or 3. Certified used vehicles are also significantly more expensive than a used vehicle and a warranty, and Consumer Reports recommends the latter.

JMTQp8lwXL 7y ago

CarMax typically doesn't sell cars that old. 3-5 years is their typical upper age. The odds of a major issue with a car that's only half as old, I'd imagine, are lower.

scarface74 7y ago
They will sell cars older. We are looking at some as old as 2010 for our son now.