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"Surfers, for the most part, don’t need more stuff, don’t want more surfers, don’t care about grabbing attention, etc." This is actually completely true. I'm f

"Surfers, for the most part, don’t need more stuff, don’t want more surfers, don’t care about grabbing attention, etc." This is actually completely true. I'm friends with a guy who owns a surf shop in one of the highest grossing areas for surfing equipment/clothing in southern california, his biggest gripe with the industry is that surfers spend no money. They won't pay for parking, won't pay for surf apps, won't buy a new board unless they have to, don't really buy the clothes, etc. It's part of the culture. Edit: To add to his perspective, it's not about getting wealthy from surfing. The guy has been surfing his whole life, is a lifelong lifeguard, surfs 20 foot waves. He just wishes the industry could grow and innovate, but instead sees it stagnate. Sure the vibe and love for surfing is there, but I think he is frustrated that there is no wealth in the industry to foster further growth and investment. But then again, the way I see it is surfing as a sport is extremely limited, you can only do it on coasts, and only some coasts are actually consistently good for it.

monk_e_boy 7y ago
When we go to the beach twice a day for a surf - who can afford to pay for parking? Plus the jog to the beach is good for you. And some people what to look like a surfer. I am a surfer who wants to look like a normal person. Who buys a new board if they don't have to? Madness. I choose my equipment carefully, it has to match my style. Standing on some clever foam out in the middle of the ocean is tricky and very personal. I wouldn't say it's part of the culture, it's just being normal. I don't upgrade my PC to stay on trend. I don't upgrade my surfboard to stay on trend. They are tools.
- sooheon 7y ago
  Do you think propensity to spend is perfectly equal across all hobbies? Is it possible that surfers spend less relative to something like photography or sailing? By saying it's "just being normal", you're signaling that sensible frugality is normal to you. It's possible that value has some correlation with your identity as a surfer, no?
  - madhadron 7y ago
    Sailing is a big set of categories. Folks how have a Laser and work that into the ground are rather like surfers. Lasers are all the same. Get out there and sail. When you have worn out your sail, grudgingly buy a new one. Patch the fiberglass in your deck when it needs it. Folks who have wooden keelboats are about as into working on the boat as they are into sailing the boat. They spend money, but it's not on flashy gear. It's on another five gallons of bottom paint and another box of sandpaper because that varnish has to be redone again. Marketing and brand doesn't really help you sell these or increase margins on them, because a bunch of ratty guys are on the dock comparing how long they had to go between repainting the bottom with that manufacturer versus this one. Folks who have big glitzy boats as a status symbol spend money, but generally you're not selling to them. You're selling to a designer or to workmen. And all the life jackets are still the same orange ones off the shelf from West Marine or the like.
    - ilikepi 7y ago
      > Lasers are all the same. It's interesting you chose that specific boat given the dust-up between the trademark owner and the builders over the past year, and the recent controversy in the 2024 Olympic selection committee. I've only barely followed it, but at least some of the controversy seems to be about the lack of innovation in the class.
      - madhadron 7y ago
        I haven't even heard about the dustup, and one of the reasons that I pick the Laser is that the world of Laser sailing is so large that the Olympics are a tiny, tiny fraction of it. There are very few Olympic classes for which that is the case. Much of the attraction of the class is the lack of innovation. Innovation in racing sailboats tends to sacrifice other qualities like seakindliness, survivability, and versatility. Look at the Americas Cup boats for extreme examples. They're amazingly fast, but useless for anything but that one task. Having a boat that has persisted as a first choice for Olympic racing and taking your kids out for daysail means that it is happens to have been an incredibly good design, and allowing innovation in the class is more likely to end up with reducing that versatility, rather the way the American Kennel Club's focus on conformation has destroyed dog breeds.
bagacrap 7y ago
Why is he even in the industry then? It sounds like he set up shop in a high rent area and I doubt he can compete on price with online retailers. It's a dubious choice from a business perspective. Hardcore surfers probably know as much as he does about the products he's selling, or know enough to find them online for cheaper, so what is the value add he offers? I'm sure he chose this line of work bc he wants to be around surfers and near the beach etc, but maybe he should have tried something more boring and profitable if lack of success is going to bother him.
- codingslave 7y ago
  He's in his late 30s, been surfing his whole life, it is his life. He still does well for himself very well for himself, but I think he just wishes the industry could grow and innovate, but instead sees it stagnate. Sure the vibe and love for surfing is there, but I think he is frustrated that there is no wealth in the industry to foster further growth and investment.
b5n 7y ago
No one wants to pay for parking. Surf apps suck, they're generally asking around $10 a month, and they do little more than provide prettified weather buoy data. _Decent_ wetsuits are in the $300 - $500 range, new board $600 - $1000. I think it's pretty capitalist to let some kook buy it new and then snag it from them off craigslist for %30 - %50 of retail.
- everybodyknows 7y ago
  Free, privacy-preserving alternative to surf app: https://forecast.weather.gov/product.php?site=SGX&issuedby=SGX&product=SRF&format=CI&version=1 https://forecast.weather.gov/product.php?site=SGX&issuedby=S...
- codingslave 7y ago
  This made me laugh, because everyone I know does exactly this for the boards off of craigslist.
ako 7y ago
All money saved is spend on surf-trips searching for the best waves... And working less, to have more time surfing.
- john_cogs 7y ago
  Exactly this.
0xffff2 7y ago
>He just wishes the industry could grow and innovate... What does that even mean? If all of the surfers are happy, why does the industry need to innovate? Why is constant innovation always seen as a good thing?
- geodel 7y ago
  Well maybe industry thinks that butterfly surfboards like butterfly keyboards is innovation worth having.
stronglikedan 7y ago
> Surfers...don’t care about grabbing attention I chuckled at this bit, because I grew up in a surf town and still live nearby. Every surfer I've every known has been an attention hog, and they will find a way let you know they surf within minutes of meeting you.
- dredmorbius 7y ago
  What of the surfers you didn't meet?
nradov 7y ago
Laird Hamilton is trying to grow and innovate the surfing industry. https://www.lairdhamilton.com/ https://www.lairdhamilton.com/
brudgers 7y ago
Waves don't innovate. An app won't mitigate the risk of drowning. Neither will a new board. Serious surfing revolves around risk assessment and mitigation and a flow of opportunities. If you can look out the window and see the waves, there's not much point in an app. In the old days, the surf report was a recorded message over POTS. The local spot doesn't need an app. Serious surfing is local.
turk73 7y ago
Because surfing is a bum lifestyle. They're just hip bums.

monk_e_boy 7y ago

When we go to the beach twice a day for a surf - who can afford to pay for parking? Plus the jog to the beach is good for you. And some people what to look like a surfer. I am a surfer who wants to look like a normal person. Who buys a new board if they don't have to? Madness. I choose my equipment carefully, it has to match my style. Standing on some clever foam out in the middle of the ocean is tricky and very personal. I wouldn't say it's part of the culture, it's just being normal. I don't upgrade my PC to stay on trend. I don't upgrade my surfboard to stay on trend. They are tools.

sooheon 7y ago
Do you think propensity to spend is perfectly equal across all hobbies? Is it possible that surfers spend less relative to something like photography or sailing? By saying it's "just being normal", you're signaling that sensible frugality is normal to you. It's possible that value has some correlation with your identity as a surfer, no?
- madhadron 7y ago
  Sailing is a big set of categories. Folks how have a Laser and work that into the ground are rather like surfers. Lasers are all the same. Get out there and sail. When you have worn out your sail, grudgingly buy a new one. Patch the fiberglass in your deck when it needs it. Folks who have wooden keelboats are about as into working on the boat as they are into sailing the boat. They spend money, but it's not on flashy gear. It's on another five gallons of bottom paint and another box of sandpaper because that varnish has to be redone again. Marketing and brand doesn't really help you sell these or increase margins on them, because a bunch of ratty guys are on the dock comparing how long they had to go between repainting the bottom with that manufacturer versus this one. Folks who have big glitzy boats as a status symbol spend money, but generally you're not selling to them. You're selling to a designer or to workmen. And all the life jackets are still the same orange ones off the shelf from West Marine or the like.
  - ilikepi 7y ago
    > Lasers are all the same. It's interesting you chose that specific boat given the dust-up between the trademark owner and the builders over the past year, and the recent controversy in the 2024 Olympic selection committee. I've only barely followed it, but at least some of the controversy seems to be about the lack of innovation in the class.
    - madhadron 7y ago
      I haven't even heard about the dustup, and one of the reasons that I pick the Laser is that the world of Laser sailing is so large that the Olympics are a tiny, tiny fraction of it. There are very few Olympic classes for which that is the case. Much of the attraction of the class is the lack of innovation. Innovation in racing sailboats tends to sacrifice other qualities like seakindliness, survivability, and versatility. Look at the Americas Cup boats for extreme examples. They're amazingly fast, but useless for anything but that one task. Having a boat that has persisted as a first choice for Olympic racing and taking your kids out for daysail means that it is happens to have been an incredibly good design, and allowing innovation in the class is more likely to end up with reducing that versatility, rather the way the American Kennel Club's focus on conformation has destroyed dog breeds.

bagacrap 7y ago

Why is he even in the industry then? It sounds like he set up shop in a high rent area and I doubt he can compete on price with online retailers. It's a dubious choice from a business perspective. Hardcore surfers probably know as much as he does about the products he's selling, or know enough to find them online for cheaper, so what is the value add he offers? I'm sure he chose this line of work bc he wants to be around surfers and near the beach etc, but maybe he should have tried something more boring and profitable if lack of success is going to bother him.

codingslave 7y ago
He's in his late 30s, been surfing his whole life, it is his life. He still does well for himself very well for himself, but I think he just wishes the industry could grow and innovate, but instead sees it stagnate. Sure the vibe and love for surfing is there, but I think he is frustrated that there is no wealth in the industry to foster further growth and investment.

b5n 7y ago

No one wants to pay for parking. Surf apps suck, they're generally asking around $10 a month, and they do little more than provide prettified weather buoy data. _Decent_ wetsuits are in the $300 - $500 range, new board $600 - $1000. I think it's pretty capitalist to let some kook buy it new and then snag it from them off craigslist for %30 - %50 of retail.

everybodyknows 7y ago
Free, privacy-preserving alternative to surf app: https://forecast.weather.gov/product.php?site=SGX&issuedby=SGX&product=SRF&format=CI&version=1 https://forecast.weather.gov/product.php?site=SGX&issuedby=S...
codingslave 7y ago
This made me laugh, because everyone I know does exactly this for the boards off of craigslist.

ako 7y ago

All money saved is spend on surf-trips searching for the best waves... And working less, to have more time surfing.

john_cogs 7y ago
Exactly this.

0xffff2 7y ago

>He just wishes the industry could grow and innovate... What does that even mean? If all of the surfers are happy, why does the industry need to innovate? Why is constant innovation always seen as a good thing?

geodel 7y ago
Well maybe industry thinks that butterfly surfboards like butterfly keyboards is innovation worth having.

stronglikedan 7y ago

> Surfers...don’t care about grabbing attention I chuckled at this bit, because I grew up in a surf town and still live nearby. Every surfer I've every known has been an attention hog, and they will find a way let you know they surf within minutes of meeting you.

dredmorbius 7y ago
What of the surfers you didn't meet?

nradov 7y ago

Laird Hamilton is trying to grow and innovate the surfing industry. https://www.lairdhamilton.com/ https://www.lairdhamilton.com/

brudgers 7y ago

Waves don't innovate. An app won't mitigate the risk of drowning. Neither will a new board. Serious surfing revolves around risk assessment and mitigation and a flow of opportunities. If you can look out the window and see the waves, there's not much point in an app. In the old days, the surf report was a recorded message over POTS. The local spot doesn't need an app. Serious surfing is local.

turk73 7y ago

Because surfing is a bum lifestyle. They're just hip bums.