4 ms·

I can think of two questions I'd love to see a journalist track down: 1. What's the legal process for banning a book? 2. If it's not equally as hard (or harde

I can think of two questions I'd love to see a journalist track down: 1. What's the legal process for banning a book? 2. If it's not equally as hard (or harder) for the government to take down a website, why?

tibbon 16y ago
From my understanding, there are no 'banned books' in the US, but rather ones that are blacklisted by library, teaching and bookstore groups making them difficult to come by. I'm personally unaware of any book that the US Government has banned, although I'm always willing to be wrong :)
- joeybaker 16y ago
  hmm… you appear to be right: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most-commonly_challenged_books_in_the_United_States http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most-commonly_challenge... That brings me to my second question: why don't we have a similar process for websites?
  - peterwwillis 16y ago
    The book Bridge to Terabithia (of which a 2007 film was adapted) was at number 8 on the ALA's list of frequently challenged books because: "The censorship attempts stem from death being a part of the plot; Jess' frequent use of the word "lord" outside of prayer; concerns that the book promotes secular humanism, New Age religion, occultism, and Satanism; and for use of offensive language." Maybe it's better we don't have a similar process.
    - joeybaker 16y ago
      Fair point, but the merits of the book banning system: are that it appears to be relatively difficult to implement or enforce, and that it's restricted to localities instead of a whole country.
      - cookiecaper 16y ago
        The only way to have a publication legally banned in the United States is to have it declared legally obscene. Obscenity is a local consideration and it's practically impossible to get something banned universally. The only way publications are kept out are complaints to vendors and/or the willful adoption of mandatory rating systems, which generally have a rating that is equivalent to a commercial blackout (see "AO" from the ESRB or "NC-17" from MPAA; material so rated is not generally available because most "respectable" vendors refuse to stock it). IANAL.
  - cookiecaper 16y ago
    Because banning books invokes Fahrenheit 451 and 1984, but banning websites doesn't. In short, because they think they can get away with it for websites.
- kmfrk 16y ago
  Pretty much - recently, a member of the army (or something such) wrote a book with some very sensitive details that caught the government off guard. The government's reaction? Buying all first-edition copies of the book.
  - wlievens 16y ago
    Great business model, come to think of it.
    - m_myers 16y ago
      It's rather like people who buy a book just so they can burn it. If I'm the publisher, that's my cue to reprint as fast as possible.
      - kmfrk 16y ago
        I'm pretty sure that the book was sent to the relevant government people to be vetted, before it was published. The first time around, someone in the government must have missed the details. The second time around, I'm sure they combed through it and pointed out the things that they would prefer the author left out. After that, the modified book probably got the green light. I don't see why you would want to be an ass and just republish the book again without talking to the people.
        Kliment 16y ago
        Since when does the government need to approve books for publication? You want to "be an ass" because as the author, you want those details out, and as the publisher, you know those details are what will sell the book.
        kmfrk 16y ago
        Sure, endanger the lives of American and coalition troops, how does that make someone an asshole? As long as you're doing it for PR and profit.
- mryall 16y ago
  Presumably those "books" with child pornography in them aren't allowed to be sold in the States. As someone who doesn't live there, I'm curious: how is that enforced?
  - dagw 16y ago
    As long as they're only describing the act in text it's legal. If there are photos, it's obviously right out. If there are illustrations, then the courts haven't definitely settled the question last I heard.
    - jonknee 16y ago
      Not necessarily. Remember that pedophilia book that got Amazon some flack? A rogue sheriff in Florida had one of his deputies buy the hard copy and then arrest the writer for "distribution of obscene material depicting minors engaged in harmful conduct". Horrible precedent for several reasons. http://articles.cnn.com/2010-12-22/justice/florida.obscenity.arrest_1_book-outlines-book-talks-controversial-book?_s=PM:CRIME http://articles.cnn.com/2010-12-22/justice/florida.obscenity...
      - dagw 16y ago
        True, but that case has yet to be settled. Either way as far as I know the US government has made no move to ban the book, and even if they do get a conviction it will be under local laws and not federal laws.
- michael_dorfman 16y ago
  I'm personally unaware of any book that the US Government has banned, although I'm always willing to be wrong One of Wilhelm Reich's books was banned by the FDA in 1956. (Man, is that a strange story....) But in the general case, your point holds.
joe_the_user 16y ago
There are set procedures for banning books in particular. There have been books banned in the US, however. US went to court to censor The CIA and the Cult of Intelligence for its use of classified materials. US FDA went to court and had Wilhelm Reich's books banned as "labels" for his orgone blank. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_Reich http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_Reich So altogether, the procedure for banning books and banning websites is similar - in the sense that both approaches use "obscure clauses" and twist the meaning of free speech and due-process to suit their goals while covering up their effect. The one good thing is that free speech still has popular support here.

tibbon 16y ago

From my understanding, there are no 'banned books' in the US, but rather ones that are blacklisted by library, teaching and bookstore groups making them difficult to come by. I'm personally unaware of any book that the US Government has banned, although I'm always willing to be wrong :)

joeybaker 16y ago
hmm… you appear to be right: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most-commonly_challenged_books_in_the_United_States http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most-commonly_challenge... That brings me to my second question: why don't we have a similar process for websites?
- peterwwillis 16y ago
  The book Bridge to Terabithia (of which a 2007 film was adapted) was at number 8 on the ALA's list of frequently challenged books because: "The censorship attempts stem from death being a part of the plot; Jess' frequent use of the word "lord" outside of prayer; concerns that the book promotes secular humanism, New Age religion, occultism, and Satanism; and for use of offensive language." Maybe it's better we don't have a similar process.
  - joeybaker 16y ago
    Fair point, but the merits of the book banning system: are that it appears to be relatively difficult to implement or enforce, and that it's restricted to localities instead of a whole country.
    - cookiecaper 16y ago
      The only way to have a publication legally banned in the United States is to have it declared legally obscene. Obscenity is a local consideration and it's practically impossible to get something banned universally. The only way publications are kept out are complaints to vendors and/or the willful adoption of mandatory rating systems, which generally have a rating that is equivalent to a commercial blackout (see "AO" from the ESRB or "NC-17" from MPAA; material so rated is not generally available because most "respectable" vendors refuse to stock it). IANAL.
- cookiecaper 16y ago
  Because banning books invokes Fahrenheit 451 and 1984, but banning websites doesn't. In short, because they think they can get away with it for websites.
kmfrk 16y ago
Pretty much - recently, a member of the army (or something such) wrote a book with some very sensitive details that caught the government off guard. The government's reaction? Buying all first-edition copies of the book.
- wlievens 16y ago
  Great business model, come to think of it.
  - m_myers 16y ago
    It's rather like people who buy a book just so they can burn it. If I'm the publisher, that's my cue to reprint as fast as possible.
    - kmfrk 16y ago
      I'm pretty sure that the book was sent to the relevant government people to be vetted, before it was published. The first time around, someone in the government must have missed the details. The second time around, I'm sure they combed through it and pointed out the things that they would prefer the author left out. After that, the modified book probably got the green light. I don't see why you would want to be an ass and just republish the book again without talking to the people.
      - Kliment 16y ago
        Since when does the government need to approve books for publication? You want to "be an ass" because as the author, you want those details out, and as the publisher, you know those details are what will sell the book.
        kmfrk 16y ago
        Sure, endanger the lives of American and coalition troops, how does that make someone an asshole? As long as you're doing it for PR and profit.
mryall 16y ago
Presumably those "books" with child pornography in them aren't allowed to be sold in the States. As someone who doesn't live there, I'm curious: how is that enforced?
- dagw 16y ago
  As long as they're only describing the act in text it's legal. If there are photos, it's obviously right out. If there are illustrations, then the courts haven't definitely settled the question last I heard.
  - jonknee 16y ago
    Not necessarily. Remember that pedophilia book that got Amazon some flack? A rogue sheriff in Florida had one of his deputies buy the hard copy and then arrest the writer for "distribution of obscene material depicting minors engaged in harmful conduct". Horrible precedent for several reasons. http://articles.cnn.com/2010-12-22/justice/florida.obscenity.arrest_1_book-outlines-book-talks-controversial-book?_s=PM:CRIME http://articles.cnn.com/2010-12-22/justice/florida.obscenity...
    - dagw 16y ago
      True, but that case has yet to be settled. Either way as far as I know the US government has made no move to ban the book, and even if they do get a conviction it will be under local laws and not federal laws.
michael_dorfman 16y ago
I'm personally unaware of any book that the US Government has banned, although I'm always willing to be wrong One of Wilhelm Reich's books was banned by the FDA in 1956. (Man, is that a strange story....) But in the general case, your point holds.

joe_the_user 16y ago

There are set procedures for banning books in particular. There have been books banned in the US, however. US went to court to censor The CIA and the Cult of Intelligence for its use of classified materials. US FDA went to court and had Wilhelm Reich's books banned as "labels" for his orgone blank. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_Reich http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_Reich So altogether, the procedure for banning books and banning websites is similar - in the sense that both approaches use "obscure clauses" and twist the meaning of free speech and due-process to suit their goals while covering up their effect. The one good thing is that free speech still has popular support here.