7 ms·

FBI director says disinformation campaigns 'never stopped' after 2016 elections

42 points by Liriel 7y ago

complianceowl 7y ago
The Russia hoax couldn't stick. The dossier of Pres. Trump peeing on women couldn't stick. Stormy Daniels couldn't stick. Allegations against Supreme Court appointees couldn't stick. Impeachment couldn't stick. If we want to talk about disinformation campaigns -- let's start right here at home: CNN, MSNBC, ABC, our own politicians, lobbyists. Regardless of our political affiliation -- to not look at the evidence and pledge a blind loyalty to a party and its narrative, is precisely part of the problem. Don't worry so much about Russia. Worry more about your own bias and refusal to think for yourself.
- woah 7y ago
  Wait. There isn’t any dispute about Stormy Daniels is there? Everybody involved concedes that Donald Trump did sleep with a porn star while he was married, and he did pay her hush money. I thought the only point in question was whether he was going to get off of the possible campaign finance violations on a technicality?
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- mpfundstein 7y ago
  thank you Sir.
- uniacid 7y ago
  Part of thinking for yourself is not to disregard the obvious disinformation campaigns Russia has been a part of, along the same lines of the Republican party as well. Don't broadly accuse the media of disinformation when there's much more evidence to show certain actors have pushed disinformation/misinformation than to just lump them all into one, if you want to go after any media org how about Fox News aka the Rupert Murdoch scam.
  - complianceowl 7y ago
    I didn’t stop at broadly accusing the media; I listed specific media outlets. You didn’t address any of the failed disinformation campaigns that I mentioned. You simply countered by throwing in a couple terms: republic party, Fox News, and the Rupert Murdoch scam. I would recommend you read the HN guidelines. Good day!
- SonOfKyuss 7y ago
  > The Russia hoax couldn't stick. The dossier of Pres. Trump peeing on women couldn't stick. Stormy Daniels couldn't stick. Allegations against Supreme Court appointees couldn't stick. Impeachment couldn't stick. > If we want to talk about disinformation campaigns -- let's start right here at home: CNN, MSNBC, ABC, our own politicians, lobbyists. Curiously left Fox News and OAN off this list. > Worry more about your own bias and refusal to think for yourself. The irony in your post is incredible. You are parroting Fox News and Russian propaganda talking points while directing people to think for themselves.
  - complianceowl 7y ago
    Allow me to address your grey comment. By accusing me of “parroting” and saying that the irony in my post is “incredible” might show how you feel, but does nothing to address my post. You provided a lot of emotion, zero facts — and nothing even remotely close to a substantive counter in your reply. And for that reason, I’m out.
    - ptyyy 7y ago
      > You provided a lot of emotion, zero facts This could be said about your original post.
      - complianceowl 7y ago
        I provided specific examples of events that actually transpired. Stop lying.
        knightofmars 7y ago
        Examples are not facts. Saying that "The Russian hoax couldn't stick." is a personal interpretation, because it falls on the narrative that Alexander Downer (once leader of the Austrialian conservative party) is somehow part of an elaborate conspiracy. Which, that he's part of an elaborate conspiracy, has zero supporting evidence and is being spread by the conservative media. Additionally, unless you want to believe that Mitt Romney is a "tool of the liberals" then "Impeachment couldn't stick." was entirely due to our system being broken and entirely based around party politics. Because, according to Mitt Romney, Trump absolutely abused his power and broke the law. We don't have people who actually care about the law and upholding it governing us so we have to deal with a broken system. That's a condemnation of both parties, they are both awful.
- BubRoss 7y ago
  What do you mean by 'did not stick'. If you mean that trump supporters didn't turn on him for cheating on his wife with pornstars and paying them to be quiet, then that could be reasonable, but the fact that it happened is not even in dispute.
scohesc 7y ago
Everybody around the world does it. In fact, the CIA has been doing it since its inception!
- AnimalMuppet 7y ago
  Sure. The problem with Russia is twofold: They're doing it really effectively, and they're doing it to us. We haven't ever seen a disinformation campaign that was this effective before. At least, we haven't seen one that was this effective against countries with free media and an educated population. (Though the effectiveness of this attack might lead one to question both the freedom of the media and the educatedness of the population...) Them doing it to us may be "turnabout is fair play", but that doesn't mean that we have to like it, approve of it, or accept it.
  - davidwitt415 7y ago
    The Russian Internet Research Agency activity on Facebook was miniscule compared to what was spent by the Clinton and Trump campaigns, not even including PACs. It beggars belief that somehow their 'weird tricks' were so effective and novel that US political advertising consultants -by far the largest and most sophisticated in the world- never figured them out. (Remember Willie Horton? https://www.vox.com/2018/12/1/18121221/george-hw-bush-willie-horton-dog-whistle-politics https://www.vox.com/2018/12/1/18121221/george-hw-bush-willie...) 'Without counting PACs, the top campaigns spent 1,760X more on election ads than one group of Russian meddlers puts the situation into context.' https://techcrunch.com/2017/11/01/russian-facebook-ad-spend/ https://techcrunch.com/2017/11/01/russian-facebook-ad-spend/ 'We haven't ever seen a disinformation campaign that was this effective before.' I think you're right on that one, but not in the way you think; the most effective disinformation campaign in history was waged by the DNC to blame the Russians for everything when they were a.) caught out in throwing the Democratic nomination to Hillary and b.) being so inept at electioneering that they left the door open for Trump to win.
    - lern_too_spel 7y ago
      The amount that they spent on advertising might be small, but the amount that they spent on managing troll accounts stoking conspiracy theories definitely wasn't, with hundreds of accounts removed on multiple platforms. Neither campaign is legally allowed to use that trick, which is evidently very effective by how many people are seen spouting political conspiracy theories these days.
craftyguy 7y ago
> Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. Videos of pratfalls or disasters, or cute animal pictures. If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Edit: There's no new information here. Anyone who has been paying even a tiny bit of attention would already know this. "Hacker" "news" wouldn't know an on-topic story if it hit them in the face.
mlspr01 7y ago
Disinformation campaigns never stopped since... -the 80's when they passed legislation no longer requiring news -to present both sides of the argument -the Cold War -the massive propaganda campaigns via news, radio, social clubs, and film and advertising of WW2 -the father of public relations Edward Bernays wrote the book in 1921 -the guy he stole most of his stuff from Walter Lippmann worked for the US on an unprecedented campaign for WWI -Ivy Lee, the "first publicist" was hired by the John D. Rockefeller, to improve his public image -traders in Amsterdam used various methods to deceive other investors regarding tulip values -Roman Emperors waged disinformation campaigns against the citizens to make sure they knew that their military campaigns were always the most valiant righteous and most of all triumphant possible -Themistocles launched a disinformation campaign luring the Persians into a naval battle they were ill prepared for at the battle of Salamis Basically disinformation campaigns have been running since the beginning of time...and the most effective ones are the ones you still never realized.
- ndjdjwjj 7y ago
  People realized there's no advantage to letting both sides speak. The majority benefits from stifling the minority and inherently has the power to do so by virtue of being the majority. This gets justified with arguments against normalization usually. Why it's so hard for the 'right' side to present their side persuasively isn't examined too closely.
omilu 7y ago
The disinformation campaign is called MSNBC, activists masquerading as journalists, that think the ends justify the means.

42 points by Liriel 7y ago

The Russia hoax couldn't stick. The dossier of Pres. Trump peeing on women couldn't stick. Stormy Daniels couldn't stick. Allegations against Supreme Court appointees couldn't stick. Impeachment couldn't stick. If we want to talk about disinformation campaigns -- let's start right here at home: CNN, MSNBC, ABC, our own politicians, lobbyists. Regardless of our political affiliation -- to not look at the evidence and pledge a blind loyalty to a party and its narrative, is precisely part of the problem. Don't worry so much about Russia. Worry more about your own bias and refusal to think for yourself.

woah 7y ago
Wait. There isn’t any dispute about Stormy Daniels is there? Everybody involved concedes that Donald Trump did sleep with a porn star while he was married, and he did pay her hush money. I thought the only point in question was whether he was going to get off of the possible campaign finance violations on a technicality?
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
mpfundstein 7y ago
thank you Sir.
uniacid 7y ago
Part of thinking for yourself is not to disregard the obvious disinformation campaigns Russia has been a part of, along the same lines of the Republican party as well. Don't broadly accuse the media of disinformation when there's much more evidence to show certain actors have pushed disinformation/misinformation than to just lump them all into one, if you want to go after any media org how about Fox News aka the Rupert Murdoch scam.
- complianceowl 7y ago
  I didn’t stop at broadly accusing the media; I listed specific media outlets. You didn’t address any of the failed disinformation campaigns that I mentioned. You simply countered by throwing in a couple terms: republic party, Fox News, and the Rupert Murdoch scam. I would recommend you read the HN guidelines. Good day!
SonOfKyuss 7y ago
> The Russia hoax couldn't stick. The dossier of Pres. Trump peeing on women couldn't stick. Stormy Daniels couldn't stick. Allegations against Supreme Court appointees couldn't stick. Impeachment couldn't stick. > If we want to talk about disinformation campaigns -- let's start right here at home: CNN, MSNBC, ABC, our own politicians, lobbyists. Curiously left Fox News and OAN off this list. > Worry more about your own bias and refusal to think for yourself. The irony in your post is incredible. You are parroting Fox News and Russian propaganda talking points while directing people to think for themselves.
- complianceowl 7y ago
  Allow me to address your grey comment. By accusing me of “parroting” and saying that the irony in my post is “incredible” might show how you feel, but does nothing to address my post. You provided a lot of emotion, zero facts — and nothing even remotely close to a substantive counter in your reply. And for that reason, I’m out.
  - ptyyy 7y ago
    > You provided a lot of emotion, zero facts This could be said about your original post.
    - complianceowl 7y ago
      I provided specific examples of events that actually transpired. Stop lying.
      - knightofmars 7y ago
        Examples are not facts. Saying that "The Russian hoax couldn't stick." is a personal interpretation, because it falls on the narrative that Alexander Downer (once leader of the Austrialian conservative party) is somehow part of an elaborate conspiracy. Which, that he's part of an elaborate conspiracy, has zero supporting evidence and is being spread by the conservative media. Additionally, unless you want to believe that Mitt Romney is a "tool of the liberals" then "Impeachment couldn't stick." was entirely due to our system being broken and entirely based around party politics. Because, according to Mitt Romney, Trump absolutely abused his power and broke the law. We don't have people who actually care about the law and upholding it governing us so we have to deal with a broken system. That's a condemnation of both parties, they are both awful.
BubRoss 7y ago
What do you mean by 'did not stick'. If you mean that trump supporters didn't turn on him for cheating on his wife with pornstars and paying them to be quiet, then that could be reasonable, but the fact that it happened is not even in dispute.

scohesc 7y ago

Everybody around the world does it. In fact, the CIA has been doing it since its inception!

AnimalMuppet 7y ago
Sure. The problem with Russia is twofold: They're doing it really effectively, and they're doing it to us. We haven't ever seen a disinformation campaign that was this effective before. At least, we haven't seen one that was this effective against countries with free media and an educated population. (Though the effectiveness of this attack might lead one to question both the freedom of the media and the educatedness of the population...) Them doing it to us may be "turnabout is fair play", but that doesn't mean that we have to like it, approve of it, or accept it.
- davidwitt415 7y ago
  The Russian Internet Research Agency activity on Facebook was miniscule compared to what was spent by the Clinton and Trump campaigns, not even including PACs. It beggars belief that somehow their 'weird tricks' were so effective and novel that US political advertising consultants -by far the largest and most sophisticated in the world- never figured them out. (Remember Willie Horton? https://www.vox.com/2018/12/1/18121221/george-hw-bush-willie-horton-dog-whistle-politics https://www.vox.com/2018/12/1/18121221/george-hw-bush-willie...) 'Without counting PACs, the top campaigns spent 1,760X more on election ads than one group of Russian meddlers puts the situation into context.' https://techcrunch.com/2017/11/01/russian-facebook-ad-spend/ https://techcrunch.com/2017/11/01/russian-facebook-ad-spend/ 'We haven't ever seen a disinformation campaign that was this effective before.' I think you're right on that one, but not in the way you think; the most effective disinformation campaign in history was waged by the DNC to blame the Russians for everything when they were a.) caught out in throwing the Democratic nomination to Hillary and b.) being so inept at electioneering that they left the door open for Trump to win.
  - lern_too_spel 7y ago
    The amount that they spent on advertising might be small, but the amount that they spent on managing troll accounts stoking conspiracy theories definitely wasn't, with hundreds of accounts removed on multiple platforms. Neither campaign is legally allowed to use that trick, which is evidently very effective by how many people are seen spouting political conspiracy theories these days.

craftyguy 7y ago

> Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. Videos of pratfalls or disasters, or cute animal pictures. If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Edit: There's no new information here. Anyone who has been paying even a tiny bit of attention would already know this. "Hacker" "news" wouldn't know an on-topic story if it hit them in the face.

mlspr01 7y ago

Disinformation campaigns never stopped since... -the 80's when they passed legislation no longer requiring news -to present both sides of the argument -the Cold War -the massive propaganda campaigns via news, radio, social clubs, and film and advertising of WW2 -the father of public relations Edward Bernays wrote the book in 1921 -the guy he stole most of his stuff from Walter Lippmann worked for the US on an unprecedented campaign for WWI -Ivy Lee, the "first publicist" was hired by the John D. Rockefeller, to improve his public image -traders in Amsterdam used various methods to deceive other investors regarding tulip values -Roman Emperors waged disinformation campaigns against the citizens to make sure they knew that their military campaigns were always the most valiant righteous and most of all triumphant possible -Themistocles launched a disinformation campaign luring the Persians into a naval battle they were ill prepared for at the battle of Salamis Basically disinformation campaigns have been running since the beginning of time...and the most effective ones are the ones you still never realized.

ndjdjwjj 7y ago
People realized there's no advantage to letting both sides speak. The majority benefits from stifling the minority and inherently has the power to do so by virtue of being the majority. This gets justified with arguments against normalization usually. Why it's so hard for the 'right' side to present their side persuasively isn't examined too closely.

omilu 7y ago

The disinformation campaign is called MSNBC, activists masquerading as journalists, that think the ends justify the means.