3 ms·

I want to make you happy doesn’t sound like an affirmative defense for committing a crime, especially when you are getting paid to do that crime.

takeda 7y ago
I can understand someone doing electrical work without license, but unhooking a toilet or laying tiles? It's obvious that these laws were lobbied to protect job for those that got license, not because these require skill or much of knowledge.
- true_religion 7y ago
  If you improperly do construction work moisture can get beneath your additions, and damage the structure of the house or become a breeding ground for bacteria. This can mean more expensive work is needed in the future, or cause health problems. My mother actually got a lung infection due to black molds that set in after an unlicensed contractor did some plumbing work. Since they didn’t have insurance due to being unlicensed, the reconstruction and her health issues were left to us to handle.
  - kthejoker2 7y ago
    I can't tell if this some amazingly subtle form of astroturfing or what ... Did the worker claim to be licensed? Because that would constitute fraud and seems like a simple civil case for damages. And also: are these incidents common enough to demand special laws about, as opposed to the general laws of fraud , breach of contract, etc?
    - true_religion 7y ago
      Er nope. Just a regular case of an unlicensed contractor doing work. Also, what’s to AstroTurf? I am defending an existing law, it should be no surprise that some people like the law as it is...
kbenson 7y ago
I think the point is that they refused once, and only under additional pressure from the undercover officer agreed to actually do the illegal thing. If you wouldn't have broken the law without the police's involvement, I think that's entrapment. It wasn't a lot of pressure, and you could say they are likely to break the law under pressure from other people, but I think we shouldn't be prosecuting people for what we think they might do in the future, and instead for what they've actually done. And in some of these cases it looks like the only thing they've done that we know for sure is allow the police to pressure then into breaking the law so the police can arrest them and bolster their arrest numbers.
- true_religion 7y ago
  That the police have to ask you twice to commit a crime before you do it, doesn’t sound like a very good defense either. A lot of people are implying that maybe the police bullied the contractors into submission, or formed some emotional connection and used that to twist them via friendship. But there isn’t any evidence of that. I think it’s way more likely that the contractors simply saw a way to make more money. They couldn’t refuse the second time because it’s hard to turn down cash that’s sitting on the table. They probably think they do good work, so what is the harm? Now if we think that they shouldn’t be arrested, then we should stop this from being a crime, not castigate the police for actually enforcing the law. Personally, I think this sort of thing is worth a small fine at most, and the law should be changed.

takeda 7y ago

I can understand someone doing electrical work without license, but unhooking a toilet or laying tiles? It's obvious that these laws were lobbied to protect job for those that got license, not because these require skill or much of knowledge.

true_religion 7y ago
If you improperly do construction work moisture can get beneath your additions, and damage the structure of the house or become a breeding ground for bacteria. This can mean more expensive work is needed in the future, or cause health problems. My mother actually got a lung infection due to black molds that set in after an unlicensed contractor did some plumbing work. Since they didn’t have insurance due to being unlicensed, the reconstruction and her health issues were left to us to handle.
- kthejoker2 7y ago
  I can't tell if this some amazingly subtle form of astroturfing or what ... Did the worker claim to be licensed? Because that would constitute fraud and seems like a simple civil case for damages. And also: are these incidents common enough to demand special laws about, as opposed to the general laws of fraud , breach of contract, etc?
  - true_religion 7y ago
    Er nope. Just a regular case of an unlicensed contractor doing work. Also, what’s to AstroTurf? I am defending an existing law, it should be no surprise that some people like the law as it is...

kbenson 7y ago

I think the point is that they refused once, and only under additional pressure from the undercover officer agreed to actually do the illegal thing. If you wouldn't have broken the law without the police's involvement, I think that's entrapment. It wasn't a lot of pressure, and you could say they are likely to break the law under pressure from other people, but I think we shouldn't be prosecuting people for what we think they might do in the future, and instead for what they've actually done. And in some of these cases it looks like the only thing they've done that we know for sure is allow the police to pressure then into breaking the law so the police can arrest them and bolster their arrest numbers.

true_religion 7y ago
That the police have to ask you twice to commit a crime before you do it, doesn’t sound like a very good defense either. A lot of people are implying that maybe the police bullied the contractors into submission, or formed some emotional connection and used that to twist them via friendship. But there isn’t any evidence of that. I think it’s way more likely that the contractors simply saw a way to make more money. They couldn’t refuse the second time because it’s hard to turn down cash that’s sitting on the table. They probably think they do good work, so what is the harm? Now if we think that they shouldn’t be arrested, then we should stop this from being a crime, not castigate the police for actually enforcing the law. Personally, I think this sort of thing is worth a small fine at most, and the law should be changed.