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> Regarding performance, on the other hand Linux/BSD still don't match macOS real time audio capabilities. Got a source for that? I use a Debian machine for an

> Regarding performance, on the other hand Linux/BSD still don't match macOS real time audio capabilities. Got a source for that? I use a Debian machine for an audio workstation. I moved there from OSX and am using the same DAW and get less latency now. Especially because I can run a real-time kernel...

pjmlp 7y ago
The source is what professional musicians get to use. They don't have to customise their kernel on the newly bought Window/macOS laptop.
- IntelMiner 7y ago
  That doesn't line up with your original argument You said MacOS got better performance in realtime audio Just because it's what musicians "get to" use doesn't make it better. It makes it a standard
  - pjmlp 7y ago
    Sure it does, macOS doesn't need a customized kernel build, it just works of the box. This is the typical answer, "Linux can do that, just need a special customised build and change a couple of config files and /proc settings on boot". This is not the same as what a standard kernel for consumer OS is supposed to be out of factory.
    - fons 7y ago
      You are mixing up capabilities with inconvenience.
      - pjmlp 7y ago
        Then one wonders why Linux will never matter on the desktop, regardless of what Apple and Microsoft might do. Regular people aren't compiling kernels.
        einr 7y ago
        Regular people aren't compiling kernels, they're installing something like Ubuntu Studio (https://ubuntustudio.org/ https://ubuntustudio.org/) that comes with everything you need preconfigured out of the box.
        pjmlp 7y ago
        Regular people also don't install on OS distribution either, they buy a laptop/desktop system.
      - coldtea 7y ago
        You're mixing up capabilities with extra work with capabilities with no work. If OS X also had tailor made kernel just for lower real time latency it could do even better. But out of box, it's already better. That said, the point is moot. 99% of pro audio/MIDI apps/VSTs don't run on Linux, so only experimental nerdy musicians and FOSS zealots would use it for real studio work. You do get the occasional profile on music tech websites e.g. "Techno musician X uses Linux", and somebody always jumps in a forum to say they use some Linux DAW (and usually add a list of ugly hacks, workarounds, and things that don't work), but it's clearly a total outlier situation...
        WWLink 7y ago
        Something something real world enterprise solution. Big megacorp using Dells everywhere with Windows. Bla bla bla.
        coldtea 7y ago
        Something something snark missing the point. Nobody said Linux can't for some law of nature run music software. But it's empirically true that it both lacks 99% of music software people want to run, and that it's not used by 99% of musicians...
    - Teever 7y ago
      It's easier to load a real-time kernel in Debian than it is to install nvidia drivers. I haven't done it in a few years but a quick google search says that it's as simple as: apt-get install linux-image-rt-amd64 on Debian. Hell it's probably easier to load a real-time kernel in Debian than it is to install video card drivers on any other operating system. T
      - pjmlp 7y ago
        Simple while showing up shell commands don't combine for the crowd I am speaking of.
        cies 7y ago
        You were not speaking of a crowd in your original statement: > Regarding performance, on the other hand Linux/BSD still don't match macOS real time audio capabilities. It's better to say that you were wrong at this point then to try to shift yr statement to a popularity contest instead of the soft-realtime latency contest you, YOU, started with.
        pjmlp 7y ago
        They don't match, because I have been pointed out in this thread that I need to either install a special kernel version, go hunt for a customized Ubuntu version or compile a customized kernel. The macOS kernel doesn't require any of this, it just works. No audio professional using Apple hardware needs to learn these workarounds to actually do their work.
        cies 7y ago
        > No audio professional using Apple hardware needs to learn these workarounds to actually do their work. You keep repeating this. But no one said this is not the case.
        yati 7y ago
        That seems pretty patronizing of that "crowd". Is the topic of this thread (the top-level, not the topic of audio latency) something that matters to that crowd you represent?
- bestham 7y ago
  Your statement was that audio latency is lower on OSX compared to Linux, and you cannot back that up. We all know that the prevalence of Linux DAWs in the studios are low. But that would only be related to OSX having the lowest latency if latency was the only thing that ever mattered to professional studios. Which it’s not.
  - pjmlp 7y ago
    Try to do the same with a standard Linux distribution kernel, without customisation.
    - kelnos 7y ago
      Why? The goalposts you've erected are entirely arbitrary and unnecessary.
      - pjmlp 7y ago
        Because that is what regular users care about, they are not nerds compiling kernels to achieve what is supposed to be a factory enabled capability. My point stands, macOS kernel doesn't need to be compiled from scratch to achieve that.
        timc3 7y ago
        Ubuntu Studio doesn't need to be compiled from scratch to achieve it either.. The applications that most professionals involved in music and audio use don't run on Linux. And with most professionals the application and it's stable running is the key concern, the OS just facilitate the application.
        diffeomorphism 7y ago
        Why do you think any compiling whatsoever is involved?
        fit2rule 7y ago
        Ubuntu Studio doesn't need to be compiled from scratch either, but easily provides better performance specs than MacOS out of the box.
- monocasa 7y ago
  There's def a crowd using Ubuntu studio.
  - fit2rule 7y ago
    Ubuntu Studio user checking in .. REAPER on Ubuntu Studio is simply the highest performing DAW around. Nothing comes close.
- asveikau 7y ago
  The comment above this one says: > I ... get less latency now. Especially because I can run a real-time kernel... Where does it say they needed the real-time kernel to match macOS? It says "especially because", not "exclusively because". No data is shared on precisely how suitable it was or wasn't before the kernel tweaks.
  - pjmlp 7y ago
    Especially because does imply that.
    - asveikau 7y ago
      "It was acceptable before but it is especially good after kernel tweaks" is a perfectly valid reading of that sentence.
- fxtentacle 7y ago
  Did you know that some hardware mixing desks being sold for live concerts and TV broadcasts are actually 2 Linux systems in a box?
- fit2rule 7y ago
  Professional audio producers and musicians can just as easily gain a high-performance DAW by using Ubuntu Studio, out of the box. My system thus configured, runs REAPER far better than the MacBook or Windows machines that are in the studio for the same purposes.
qmmmur 7y ago
I wouldn't say it's easier, but you can achieve more deeply tailored audio environments with Linux than with macos. I have a friend who is able to run a vector of 4 samples on Manjaro with the high perf rt kernel and using alsa backend. This is impossible to achieve on macos without significant hacking or maybe one of the new workstations. Even then...

pjmlp 7y ago

The source is what professional musicians get to use. They don't have to customise their kernel on the newly bought Window/macOS laptop.

IntelMiner 7y ago
That doesn't line up with your original argument You said MacOS got better performance in realtime audio Just because it's what musicians "get to" use doesn't make it better. It makes it a standard
- pjmlp 7y ago
  Sure it does, macOS doesn't need a customized kernel build, it just works of the box. This is the typical answer, "Linux can do that, just need a special customised build and change a couple of config files and /proc settings on boot". This is not the same as what a standard kernel for consumer OS is supposed to be out of factory.
  - fons 7y ago
    You are mixing up capabilities with inconvenience.
    - pjmlp 7y ago
      Then one wonders why Linux will never matter on the desktop, regardless of what Apple and Microsoft might do. Regular people aren't compiling kernels.
      - einr 7y ago
        Regular people aren't compiling kernels, they're installing something like Ubuntu Studio (https://ubuntustudio.org/ https://ubuntustudio.org/) that comes with everything you need preconfigured out of the box.
        pjmlp 7y ago
        Regular people also don't install on OS distribution either, they buy a laptop/desktop system.
    - coldtea 7y ago
      You're mixing up capabilities with extra work with capabilities with no work. If OS X also had tailor made kernel just for lower real time latency it could do even better. But out of box, it's already better. That said, the point is moot. 99% of pro audio/MIDI apps/VSTs don't run on Linux, so only experimental nerdy musicians and FOSS zealots would use it for real studio work. You do get the occasional profile on music tech websites e.g. "Techno musician X uses Linux", and somebody always jumps in a forum to say they use some Linux DAW (and usually add a list of ugly hacks, workarounds, and things that don't work), but it's clearly a total outlier situation...
      - WWLink 7y ago
        Something something real world enterprise solution. Big megacorp using Dells everywhere with Windows. Bla bla bla.
        coldtea 7y ago
        Something something snark missing the point. Nobody said Linux can't for some law of nature run music software. But it's empirically true that it both lacks 99% of music software people want to run, and that it's not used by 99% of musicians...
  - Teever 7y ago
    It's easier to load a real-time kernel in Debian than it is to install nvidia drivers. I haven't done it in a few years but a quick google search says that it's as simple as: apt-get install linux-image-rt-amd64 on Debian. Hell it's probably easier to load a real-time kernel in Debian than it is to install video card drivers on any other operating system. T
    - pjmlp 7y ago
      Simple while showing up shell commands don't combine for the crowd I am speaking of.
      - cies 7y ago
        You were not speaking of a crowd in your original statement: > Regarding performance, on the other hand Linux/BSD still don't match macOS real time audio capabilities. It's better to say that you were wrong at this point then to try to shift yr statement to a popularity contest instead of the soft-realtime latency contest you, YOU, started with.
        pjmlp 7y ago
        They don't match, because I have been pointed out in this thread that I need to either install a special kernel version, go hunt for a customized Ubuntu version or compile a customized kernel. The macOS kernel doesn't require any of this, it just works. No audio professional using Apple hardware needs to learn these workarounds to actually do their work.
        cies 7y ago
        > No audio professional using Apple hardware needs to learn these workarounds to actually do their work. You keep repeating this. But no one said this is not the case.
      - yati 7y ago
        That seems pretty patronizing of that "crowd". Is the topic of this thread (the top-level, not the topic of audio latency) something that matters to that crowd you represent?
bestham 7y ago
Your statement was that audio latency is lower on OSX compared to Linux, and you cannot back that up. We all know that the prevalence of Linux DAWs in the studios are low. But that would only be related to OSX having the lowest latency if latency was the only thing that ever mattered to professional studios. Which it’s not.
- pjmlp 7y ago
  Try to do the same with a standard Linux distribution kernel, without customisation.
  - kelnos 7y ago
    Why? The goalposts you've erected are entirely arbitrary and unnecessary.
    - pjmlp 7y ago
      Because that is what regular users care about, they are not nerds compiling kernels to achieve what is supposed to be a factory enabled capability. My point stands, macOS kernel doesn't need to be compiled from scratch to achieve that.
      - timc3 7y ago
        Ubuntu Studio doesn't need to be compiled from scratch to achieve it either.. The applications that most professionals involved in music and audio use don't run on Linux. And with most professionals the application and it's stable running is the key concern, the OS just facilitate the application.
      - diffeomorphism 7y ago
        Why do you think any compiling whatsoever is involved?
      - fit2rule 7y ago
        Ubuntu Studio doesn't need to be compiled from scratch either, but easily provides better performance specs than MacOS out of the box.
monocasa 7y ago
There's def a crowd using Ubuntu studio.
- fit2rule 7y ago
  Ubuntu Studio user checking in .. REAPER on Ubuntu Studio is simply the highest performing DAW around. Nothing comes close.
asveikau 7y ago
The comment above this one says: > I ... get less latency now. Especially because I can run a real-time kernel... Where does it say they needed the real-time kernel to match macOS? It says "especially because", not "exclusively because". No data is shared on precisely how suitable it was or wasn't before the kernel tweaks.
- pjmlp 7y ago
  Especially because does imply that.
  - asveikau 7y ago
    "It was acceptable before but it is especially good after kernel tweaks" is a perfectly valid reading of that sentence.
fxtentacle 7y ago
Did you know that some hardware mixing desks being sold for live concerts and TV broadcasts are actually 2 Linux systems in a box?
fit2rule 7y ago
Professional audio producers and musicians can just as easily gain a high-performance DAW by using Ubuntu Studio, out of the box. My system thus configured, runs REAPER far better than the MacBook or Windows machines that are in the studio for the same purposes.

qmmmur 7y ago

I wouldn't say it's easier, but you can achieve more deeply tailored audio environments with Linux than with macos. I have a friend who is able to run a vector of 4 samples on Manjaro with the high perf rt kernel and using alsa backend. This is impossible to achieve on macos without significant hacking or maybe one of the new workstations. Even then...