5 ms·

Someone should just sell a camera and make the code open source, they'd quickly eat all the market

by mavhc 7y ago

solarkraft 7y ago
I wish. In hacker circles they definitely would, but to reach a broader audience they'd definitely have to do some education. But maybe ...
PragmaticPulp 7y ago
Open source has near-zero appeal outside of the hacker niche. The vast majority of people only care about price and maybe customer support. Open source isn't feasible for any of the mainstream systems anyway. It's not up to the camera makers. The silicon vendors would have to open-source license their chipset drivers and firmware source, which isn't going to happen any time soon.
- davidzweig 7y ago
  I think some Allwinner SOCs have blob-free mainline linux. If there are solid drivers for everything (camera, ISP etc.), not sure. V3s is even QFN with onboard ram, so easy to make a board for. Or use a board like this: https://licheepizero.us/ https://licheepizero.us/ But, yeah, I think you're right, you'd struggle to compete on cost and features with mass-market players. You could offer open source firmware for some existing cameras.. I think some people do do this.
  - consp 7y ago
    > I think some Allwinner SOCs have blob-free mainline linux. Have they finally stopped doing all the GPL violations and published the code? If no: then it is still a blob, only a linux kernel blob with unknown changes.
    - clarry 7y ago
      What blobs did you find in mainline Linux?
- eeZah7Ux 7y ago
  > Open source has near-zero appeal outside of the hacker niche Not really. Plenty of people are willing to modify the technology they use, both professionally and as a hobby. You don't need to be a developer to understand that you can update the camera firmware with a 3rd-party modification.
pabs3 7y ago
Pine64 recently mentioned they are making an IP camera (search for "CUBE FOSS IP camera", seems to be Sony based): https://www.pine64.org/2020/02/03/fosdem-2020-and-hardware-announcements/ https://www.pine64.org/2020/02/03/fosdem-2020-and-hardware-a... I doubt they have the marketing budget to eat into the general market for IP cameras though.
- trevyn 7y ago
  Rockchip and Allwinner don't sound safe.
  - pabs3 7y ago
    They have reasonably good support in mainline Linux/etc, so you don't have to use the vendor BSPs. In addition, for Allwinner you can even run open source firmware on the power management processor (AR100, OpenRISC based). http://linux-rockchip.org/ http://linux-rockchip.org/ https://linux-sunxi.org/ https://linux-sunxi.org/ https://linux-sunxi.org/AR100 https://linux-sunxi.org/AR100
scottlamb 7y ago
Fortunately you normally only need to access the NVR from the Internet, not the cameras. You can put the NVR behind a VPN as well, but one trustworthy enough to skip the VPN is much more convenient. Plug: I'm developing a secure, reliable Free Software NVR, in Rust. Functionality is very limited now: embarrassingly, no motion detection yet, no live view, and a very "written by a backend engineer" UI. But it's slowly improving. I'd welcome help! https://github.com/scottlamb/moonfire-nvr https://github.com/scottlamb/moonfire-nvr
netsharc 7y ago
But... Steps after those 2 steps above are: 3. Chinese companies clone the hardware and copy the software, changing the cosmetics. 4. They sell their cameras for cheaper.
- mavhc 7y ago
  I'm suggesting the chinese companies use open source software in the first place. Promoting privacy should be a great marketing tool in the current era. "Everyone else is streaming your home back to their unsecured servers, we're not, and we have made our code public so any bugs can easily be found and fixed"
janekm 7y ago
M5Camera: https://m5stack.com/products/fish-eye-camera-module-ov2640?_pos=12&_sid=cd7bd7fb0&_ss=r&variant=17346938273882 https://m5stack.com/products/fish-eye-camera-module-ov2640?_... It's not the most high quality camera module but mostly open source and very flexible...

Someone should just sell a camera and make the code open source, they'd quickly eat all the market

by mavhc 7y ago

Someone should just sell a camera and make the code open source, they'd quickly eat all the market

I wish. In hacker circles they definitely would, but to reach a broader audience they'd definitely have to do some education. But maybe ...

PragmaticPulp 7y ago

Open source has near-zero appeal outside of the hacker niche. The vast majority of people only care about price and maybe customer support. Open source isn't feasible for any of the mainstream systems anyway. It's not up to the camera makers. The silicon vendors would have to open-source license their chipset drivers and firmware source, which isn't going to happen any time soon.

davidzweig 7y ago
I think some Allwinner SOCs have blob-free mainline linux. If there are solid drivers for everything (camera, ISP etc.), not sure. V3s is even QFN with onboard ram, so easy to make a board for. Or use a board like this: https://licheepizero.us/ https://licheepizero.us/ But, yeah, I think you're right, you'd struggle to compete on cost and features with mass-market players. You could offer open source firmware for some existing cameras.. I think some people do do this.
- consp 7y ago
  > I think some Allwinner SOCs have blob-free mainline linux. Have they finally stopped doing all the GPL violations and published the code? If no: then it is still a blob, only a linux kernel blob with unknown changes.
  - clarry 7y ago
    What blobs did you find in mainline Linux?
eeZah7Ux 7y ago
> Open source has near-zero appeal outside of the hacker niche Not really. Plenty of people are willing to modify the technology they use, both professionally and as a hobby. You don't need to be a developer to understand that you can update the camera firmware with a 3rd-party modification.

pabs3 7y ago

Pine64 recently mentioned they are making an IP camera (search for "CUBE FOSS IP camera", seems to be Sony based): https://www.pine64.org/2020/02/03/fosdem-2020-and-hardware-announcements/ https://www.pine64.org/2020/02/03/fosdem-2020-and-hardware-a... I doubt they have the marketing budget to eat into the general market for IP cameras though.

trevyn 7y ago
Rockchip and Allwinner don't sound safe.
- pabs3 7y ago
  They have reasonably good support in mainline Linux/etc, so you don't have to use the vendor BSPs. In addition, for Allwinner you can even run open source firmware on the power management processor (AR100, OpenRISC based). http://linux-rockchip.org/ http://linux-rockchip.org/ https://linux-sunxi.org/ https://linux-sunxi.org/ https://linux-sunxi.org/AR100 https://linux-sunxi.org/AR100

scottlamb 7y ago

Fortunately you normally only need to access the NVR from the Internet, not the cameras. You can put the NVR behind a VPN as well, but one trustworthy enough to skip the VPN is much more convenient. Plug: I'm developing a secure, reliable Free Software NVR, in Rust. Functionality is very limited now: embarrassingly, no motion detection yet, no live view, and a very "written by a backend engineer" UI. But it's slowly improving. I'd welcome help! https://github.com/scottlamb/moonfire-nvr https://github.com/scottlamb/moonfire-nvr

netsharc 7y ago

But... Steps after those 2 steps above are: 3. Chinese companies clone the hardware and copy the software, changing the cosmetics. 4. They sell their cameras for cheaper.

mavhc 7y ago
I'm suggesting the chinese companies use open source software in the first place. Promoting privacy should be a great marketing tool in the current era. "Everyone else is streaming your home back to their unsecured servers, we're not, and we have made our code public so any bugs can easily be found and fixed"

janekm 7y ago

M5Camera: https://m5stack.com/products/fish-eye-camera-module-ov2640?_pos=12&_sid=cd7bd7fb0&_ss=r&variant=17346938273882 https://m5stack.com/products/fish-eye-camera-module-ov2640?_... It's not the most high quality camera module but mostly open source and very flexible...