8 ms·

I am not normally a conspiracy theorist.. but I have come to suspect the same. One example, despite all that has come up in the this case, and the number of ti

I am not normally a conspiracy theorist.. but I have come to suspect the same. One example, despite all that has come up in the this case, and the number of times Ghislaine Maxwell's name has been brought up, there is no word of her whereabouts. Unless we think she is some Jason Bourne level expert that can just make herself disappear, I can think of only three explanations - 1) The law enforcement agencies are choosing not to find her and track her down for some reason. 2) She is being kept hidden (willingly or unwillingly) by someone else who has the means and ability to do so. 3) She is already dead and her body will turn up at some point. The thought there could be such types of 'cover ups' in the western democratic world is very scary. I was always certain this stuff only happened in the movies, now I am not as sure about that.

micah94 7y ago
You might have missed this: https://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Ghislaine-Maxwell-accused-of-helping-Epstein-reportedly-hides-in-Israel-613367 https://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Ghislaine-Maxwell-accused-...
- notyourday 7y ago
  Where there's a will, there's a way. Start squeezing her assets. Socialites cannot live without spending hundreds of thousands dollars a year which is difficult to do when one's accounts are frozen.
  - jdck1326 7y ago
    And risk upsetting Israel?
    - HeWhoLurksLate 7y ago
      You have a point.
    - shard972 7y ago
      Oh no, somehow the worst thing the west can do! Why is that?
marriedWpt 7y ago
Your surprise that this happens under democracy- does that change your political views? It doesn't change mine. The government is notorious for being corrupt and inefficient. I hear this and it makes me horrified of the thought of government takeover of a sector.
- baroomba 7y ago
  I'm not sure the government failing, for whatever reason, to hold private organizations and individuals to account for their wrongdoing is quite a clear, blanket argument against government power, in favor of the power of private organizations and individuals.
  - AndrewBissell 7y ago
    "The government is failing to pursue these sadistic pedophiles! Better just leave everything in their hands and not empower the government to do anything."
- nickthemagicman 7y ago
  Oh come on you mean to tell me that private industries aren't full of nepotism, bribery, corruption, and incompetence? Thalidomide, 737 max, Enron... Meanwhile tons of public sectors run silently but smoothly and are taken for granted. Your argument to demonize the public sector is ill considered, cliched, simple minded, and one sided.
- gameswithgo 7y ago
  >The government is notorious for being corrupt and inefficient So is the private sector. Excellence is rare. Such is life, welcome to earth.
  - marriedWpt 7y ago
    The private sector goes out of business. The government lives until it collapses.
giarc 7y ago
If she's sitting in a cafe in some random country, let's say Morocco or Bermuda, what is their law enforcements motivation for finding her? As far as I understand, there is no arrest warrant out for her, nor any Interpol involvement. They've got better things to do, so I wouldn't be so quick to assume law enforcement around the world is in on this.
- papreclip 7y ago
  Morocco and Bermuda are pretty naive guesses. Her mother was a "holocaust expert" and her father was not merely an agent for the Mossad but some sort of hero in the organization. She's practically Israeli royalty
- dsfyu404ed 7y ago
  >what is their law enforcements motivation for finding her? If even a fraction of what is alleged about Epstein's schemes is true then whoever has her can obtain the kind of dirt that multi-billion dollar intelligence agencies can only dream of. As another commenters said she is probably in Israel. By virtue of connections and it having a very big stake in not pissing off the US too much she is unlikely to get the $5 wrench treatment there.
  - Relys 7y ago
    Who's not to say that they weren't already intelligence assets and this whole kompromat operation was actually ran by a nation-state or collection of nation-states?
    - hylaride 7y ago
      I enjoy a good conspiracy theory as entertainment, but I'm kind of having a mind blown moment with this Epstein stuff...
      - ra5 7y ago
        Same here. It's incredibly striking to sort of see the pieces laid out in front of you, really _feel_ that they put together facts, but not have the glue you need to objectively/factually put them all together. To me it feels like the "Israeli operative" scenario seems pretty legit.
tzs 7y ago
Is it actually hard to disappear if you have money?
- wahern 7y ago
  If you want to keep the money, presumably yes. If you don't mind becoming an anonymous but financially insecure expat in the jungles of South America or Asia, then sure.
  - readhn 7y ago
    whats the going rate for a plastic face change surgery and a new US passport/identity? Will $500,000 do? Next step is setup private offshore trust/fund with new identity being the beneficiary. money problem solved. Ideally have all of the "new identity" paper work done well before it is needed: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/jeffrey-epstein-used-foreign-passport-fake-name-enter-saudi-arabia-n1031046 https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/jeffrey-...
    - wahern 7y ago
      1) If you're throwing lots of money around, there's a trail of evidence--electronic, paper, gossip. 2) If people know you're trying to hide--because you're getting face change surgery, because you're trying to launder gobs of cash--you're vulnerable to extortion, theft, and murder, in the moment and in perpetuity. (Again, the world is an ugly place filled with untold numbers of nasty people and billions of desperate people.) You need either the law or a credible threat of retaliation to protect large assets. The former requires identity and a trail of evidence of ownership, not to mention reliable law enforcement; the latter requires reputation, which requires identity and a trail of evidence of retaliation. And except for industrial countries with a strong rule of law (i.e. the places you're probably trying to flee), both the law and the jungle require regular payments in cash, favors, or blood, commensurate with the assets you're trying to protect, to maintain the state of things. Not only can that quickly diminish your wealth, you're creating an ever larger footprint. Is it possible? Theoretically, just like in the movies. But it's not easy. And it's not easy to pivot from an ultra rich, jet setting, flamboyant con-man to an anonymous nobody. It's worth noting that your link proves my point--his fake identity was readily discovered with a routine search warrant and home inspection. Epstein wasn't willing to give up the comforts of his public persona and the convenience of switching between his identities. And he clearly wasn't willing to flee before he got caught, which is something of a prerequisite. Having some money is a good start. You can buy a bar or a hostel in some far flung part of the world where nobody asks questions, and hopefully you can coast for several decades. Maybe you can hide just enough gold and currency to maintain a comfortable life without drawing attention; enough to match the flow of retirement benefits (Social Security, etc), which can often be drawn down regardless of residency and are a common source of income for older expats. Otherwise, it's just mo' money, mo' problems. On the other hand, it's rare for authorities to care enough to hunt someone down to the ends of the earth. But I assume the context here is a motivated intelligence agency or similarly resourceful and persistent organization (e.g. DoJ no longer able to turn a blind eye). Either way, though, the easiest way to hunt someone down is to follow the money. Sources: Movies. Education. Traveling and meeting "interesting" expats from various countries fleeing everything you'd expect (wives, taxes, poverty, etc) except prosecution for heinous crimes, if their stories are to be believed.
smoyer 7y ago
I'm not either but I believe what you've stated to be true and am skeptical that he actually hung himself.
- peteretep 7y ago
  > am skeptical that he actually hung himself The simplest explanation here, if you’re trying to include outside interference, is that a patient on suicide watch was intentionally allowed conditions in which he could finish the job. Why hang him when you can intentionally botch the surveillance and he’ll hang himself for you? Much cleaner.
  - AndrewBissell 7y ago
    In the words of the TrueAnon hosts "10% chance that they just MKUltra'd him into killing himself."
auntienomen 7y ago
She is under investigation. That's step 1 to extradition. https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/27/jeffrey-epstein-friend-ghislaine-maxwell-under-fbi-investigation.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/27/jeffrey-epstein-friend-ghisl...
fnord123 7y ago
I think the common suspicion is that Epstein had an Eli Cohen style role and Maxwell was his handler.

micah94 7y ago

You might have missed this: https://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Ghislaine-Maxwell-accused-of-helping-Epstein-reportedly-hides-in-Israel-613367 https://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Ghislaine-Maxwell-accused-...

notyourday 7y ago
Where there's a will, there's a way. Start squeezing her assets. Socialites cannot live without spending hundreds of thousands dollars a year which is difficult to do when one's accounts are frozen.
- jdck1326 7y ago
  And risk upsetting Israel?
  - HeWhoLurksLate 7y ago
    You have a point.
  - shard972 7y ago
    Oh no, somehow the worst thing the west can do! Why is that?

marriedWpt 7y ago

Your surprise that this happens under democracy- does that change your political views? It doesn't change mine. The government is notorious for being corrupt and inefficient. I hear this and it makes me horrified of the thought of government takeover of a sector.

baroomba 7y ago
I'm not sure the government failing, for whatever reason, to hold private organizations and individuals to account for their wrongdoing is quite a clear, blanket argument against government power, in favor of the power of private organizations and individuals.
- AndrewBissell 7y ago
  "The government is failing to pursue these sadistic pedophiles! Better just leave everything in their hands and not empower the government to do anything."
nickthemagicman 7y ago
Oh come on you mean to tell me that private industries aren't full of nepotism, bribery, corruption, and incompetence? Thalidomide, 737 max, Enron... Meanwhile tons of public sectors run silently but smoothly and are taken for granted. Your argument to demonize the public sector is ill considered, cliched, simple minded, and one sided.
gameswithgo 7y ago
>The government is notorious for being corrupt and inefficient So is the private sector. Excellence is rare. Such is life, welcome to earth.
- marriedWpt 7y ago
  The private sector goes out of business. The government lives until it collapses.

giarc 7y ago

If she's sitting in a cafe in some random country, let's say Morocco or Bermuda, what is their law enforcements motivation for finding her? As far as I understand, there is no arrest warrant out for her, nor any Interpol involvement. They've got better things to do, so I wouldn't be so quick to assume law enforcement around the world is in on this.

papreclip 7y ago
Morocco and Bermuda are pretty naive guesses. Her mother was a "holocaust expert" and her father was not merely an agent for the Mossad but some sort of hero in the organization. She's practically Israeli royalty
dsfyu404ed 7y ago
>what is their law enforcements motivation for finding her? If even a fraction of what is alleged about Epstein's schemes is true then whoever has her can obtain the kind of dirt that multi-billion dollar intelligence agencies can only dream of. As another commenters said she is probably in Israel. By virtue of connections and it having a very big stake in not pissing off the US too much she is unlikely to get the $5 wrench treatment there.
- Relys 7y ago
  Who's not to say that they weren't already intelligence assets and this whole kompromat operation was actually ran by a nation-state or collection of nation-states?
  - hylaride 7y ago
    I enjoy a good conspiracy theory as entertainment, but I'm kind of having a mind blown moment with this Epstein stuff...
    - ra5 7y ago
      Same here. It's incredibly striking to sort of see the pieces laid out in front of you, really _feel_ that they put together facts, but not have the glue you need to objectively/factually put them all together. To me it feels like the "Israeli operative" scenario seems pretty legit.

tzs 7y ago

Is it actually hard to disappear if you have money?

wahern 7y ago
If you want to keep the money, presumably yes. If you don't mind becoming an anonymous but financially insecure expat in the jungles of South America or Asia, then sure.
- readhn 7y ago
  whats the going rate for a plastic face change surgery and a new US passport/identity? Will $500,000 do? Next step is setup private offshore trust/fund with new identity being the beneficiary. money problem solved. Ideally have all of the "new identity" paper work done well before it is needed: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/jeffrey-epstein-used-foreign-passport-fake-name-enter-saudi-arabia-n1031046 https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/jeffrey-...
  - wahern 7y ago
    1) If you're throwing lots of money around, there's a trail of evidence--electronic, paper, gossip. 2) If people know you're trying to hide--because you're getting face change surgery, because you're trying to launder gobs of cash--you're vulnerable to extortion, theft, and murder, in the moment and in perpetuity. (Again, the world is an ugly place filled with untold numbers of nasty people and billions of desperate people.) You need either the law or a credible threat of retaliation to protect large assets. The former requires identity and a trail of evidence of ownership, not to mention reliable law enforcement; the latter requires reputation, which requires identity and a trail of evidence of retaliation. And except for industrial countries with a strong rule of law (i.e. the places you're probably trying to flee), both the law and the jungle require regular payments in cash, favors, or blood, commensurate with the assets you're trying to protect, to maintain the state of things. Not only can that quickly diminish your wealth, you're creating an ever larger footprint. Is it possible? Theoretically, just like in the movies. But it's not easy. And it's not easy to pivot from an ultra rich, jet setting, flamboyant con-man to an anonymous nobody. It's worth noting that your link proves my point--his fake identity was readily discovered with a routine search warrant and home inspection. Epstein wasn't willing to give up the comforts of his public persona and the convenience of switching between his identities. And he clearly wasn't willing to flee before he got caught, which is something of a prerequisite. Having some money is a good start. You can buy a bar or a hostel in some far flung part of the world where nobody asks questions, and hopefully you can coast for several decades. Maybe you can hide just enough gold and currency to maintain a comfortable life without drawing attention; enough to match the flow of retirement benefits (Social Security, etc), which can often be drawn down regardless of residency and are a common source of income for older expats. Otherwise, it's just mo' money, mo' problems. On the other hand, it's rare for authorities to care enough to hunt someone down to the ends of the earth. But I assume the context here is a motivated intelligence agency or similarly resourceful and persistent organization (e.g. DoJ no longer able to turn a blind eye). Either way, though, the easiest way to hunt someone down is to follow the money. Sources: Movies. Education. Traveling and meeting "interesting" expats from various countries fleeing everything you'd expect (wives, taxes, poverty, etc) except prosecution for heinous crimes, if their stories are to be believed.

smoyer 7y ago

I'm not either but I believe what you've stated to be true and am skeptical that he actually hung himself.

peteretep 7y ago
> am skeptical that he actually hung himself The simplest explanation here, if you’re trying to include outside interference, is that a patient on suicide watch was intentionally allowed conditions in which he could finish the job. Why hang him when you can intentionally botch the surveillance and he’ll hang himself for you? Much cleaner.
- AndrewBissell 7y ago
  In the words of the TrueAnon hosts "10% chance that they just MKUltra'd him into killing himself."

auntienomen 7y ago

She is under investigation. That's step 1 to extradition. https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/27/jeffrey-epstein-friend-ghislaine-maxwell-under-fbi-investigation.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/27/jeffrey-epstein-friend-ghisl...

fnord123 7y ago

I think the common suspicion is that Epstein had an Eli Cohen style role and Maxwell was his handler.