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I've reluctantly come to the conclusion that the simplest explanation for investigations being constantly spiked or important evidence repeatedly disappearing d

I've reluctantly come to the conclusion that the simplest explanation for investigations being constantly spiked or important evidence repeatedly disappearing during Epstein's life, is that enough high-ranking officials got invited to "parties" and slept with his underage sex slaves (or worse) on video, and were then blackmailed. The fact that even after his life there aren't gobs of collaborators being arrested also leads me to think that he wasn't even in charge of the whole thing.

mgolawala 7y ago
I am not normally a conspiracy theorist.. but I have come to suspect the same. One example, despite all that has come up in the this case, and the number of times Ghislaine Maxwell's name has been brought up, there is no word of her whereabouts. Unless we think she is some Jason Bourne level expert that can just make herself disappear, I can think of only three explanations - 1) The law enforcement agencies are choosing not to find her and track her down for some reason. 2) She is being kept hidden (willingly or unwillingly) by someone else who has the means and ability to do so. 3) She is already dead and her body will turn up at some point. The thought there could be such types of 'cover ups' in the western democratic world is very scary. I was always certain this stuff only happened in the movies, now I am not as sure about that.
- micah94 7y ago
  You might have missed this: https://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Ghislaine-Maxwell-accused-of-helping-Epstein-reportedly-hides-in-Israel-613367 https://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Ghislaine-Maxwell-accused-...
  - notyourday 7y ago
    Where there's a will, there's a way. Start squeezing her assets. Socialites cannot live without spending hundreds of thousands dollars a year which is difficult to do when one's accounts are frozen.
    - jdck1326 7y ago
      And risk upsetting Israel?
      - HeWhoLurksLate 7y ago
        You have a point.
      - shard972 7y ago
        Oh no, somehow the worst thing the west can do! Why is that?
- marriedWpt 7y ago
  Your surprise that this happens under democracy- does that change your political views? It doesn't change mine. The government is notorious for being corrupt and inefficient. I hear this and it makes me horrified of the thought of government takeover of a sector.
  - baroomba 7y ago
    I'm not sure the government failing, for whatever reason, to hold private organizations and individuals to account for their wrongdoing is quite a clear, blanket argument against government power, in favor of the power of private organizations and individuals.
    - AndrewBissell 7y ago
      "The government is failing to pursue these sadistic pedophiles! Better just leave everything in their hands and not empower the government to do anything."
  - nickthemagicman 7y ago
    Oh come on you mean to tell me that private industries aren't full of nepotism, bribery, corruption, and incompetence? Thalidomide, 737 max, Enron... Meanwhile tons of public sectors run silently but smoothly and are taken for granted. Your argument to demonize the public sector is ill considered, cliched, simple minded, and one sided.
  - gameswithgo 7y ago
    >The government is notorious for being corrupt and inefficient So is the private sector. Excellence is rare. Such is life, welcome to earth.
    - marriedWpt 7y ago
      The private sector goes out of business. The government lives until it collapses.
- giarc 7y ago
  If she's sitting in a cafe in some random country, let's say Morocco or Bermuda, what is their law enforcements motivation for finding her? As far as I understand, there is no arrest warrant out for her, nor any Interpol involvement. They've got better things to do, so I wouldn't be so quick to assume law enforcement around the world is in on this.
  - papreclip 7y ago
    Morocco and Bermuda are pretty naive guesses. Her mother was a "holocaust expert" and her father was not merely an agent for the Mossad but some sort of hero in the organization. She's practically Israeli royalty
  - dsfyu404ed 7y ago
    >what is their law enforcements motivation for finding her? If even a fraction of what is alleged about Epstein's schemes is true then whoever has her can obtain the kind of dirt that multi-billion dollar intelligence agencies can only dream of. As another commenters said she is probably in Israel. By virtue of connections and it having a very big stake in not pissing off the US too much she is unlikely to get the $5 wrench treatment there.
    - Relys 7y ago
      Who's not to say that they weren't already intelligence assets and this whole kompromat operation was actually ran by a nation-state or collection of nation-states?
      - hylaride 7y ago
        I enjoy a good conspiracy theory as entertainment, but I'm kind of having a mind blown moment with this Epstein stuff...
        ra5 7y ago
        Same here. It's incredibly striking to sort of see the pieces laid out in front of you, really _feel_ that they put together facts, but not have the glue you need to objectively/factually put them all together. To me it feels like the "Israeli operative" scenario seems pretty legit.
- tzs 7y ago
  Is it actually hard to disappear if you have money?
  - wahern 7y ago
    If you want to keep the money, presumably yes. If you don't mind becoming an anonymous but financially insecure expat in the jungles of South America or Asia, then sure.
    - readhn 7y ago
      whats the going rate for a plastic face change surgery and a new US passport/identity? Will $500,000 do? Next step is setup private offshore trust/fund with new identity being the beneficiary. money problem solved. Ideally have all of the "new identity" paper work done well before it is needed: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/jeffrey-epstein-used-foreign-passport-fake-name-enter-saudi-arabia-n1031046 https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/jeffrey-...
      - wahern 7y ago
        1) If you're throwing lots of money around, there's a trail of evidence--electronic, paper, gossip. 2) If people know you're trying to hide--because you're getting face change surgery, because you're trying to launder gobs of cash--you're vulnerable to extortion, theft, and murder, in the moment and in perpetuity. (Again, the world is an ugly place filled with untold numbers of nasty people and billions of desperate people.) You need either the law or a credible threat of retaliation to protect large assets. The former requires identity and a trail of evidence of ownership, not to mention reliable law enforcement; the latter requires reputation, which requires identity and a trail of evidence of retaliation. And except for industrial countries with a strong rule of law (i.e. the places you're probably trying to flee), both the law and the jungle require regular payments in cash, favors, or blood, commensurate with the assets you're trying to protect, to maintain the state of things. Not only can that quickly diminish your wealth, you're creating an ever larger footprint. Is it possible? Theoretically, just like in the movies. But it's not easy. And it's not easy to pivot from an ultra rich, jet setting, flamboyant con-man to an anonymous nobody. It's worth noting that your link proves my point--his fake identity was readily discovered with a routine search warrant and home inspection. Epstein wasn't willing to give up the comforts of his public persona and the convenience of switching between his identities. And he clearly wasn't willing to flee before he got caught, which is something of a prerequisite. Having some money is a good start. You can buy a bar or a hostel in some far flung part of the world where nobody asks questions, and hopefully you can coast for several decades. Maybe you can hide just enough gold and currency to maintain a comfortable life without drawing attention; enough to match the flow of retirement benefits (Social Security, etc), which can often be drawn down regardless of residency and are a common source of income for older expats. Otherwise, it's just mo' money, mo' problems. On the other hand, it's rare for authorities to care enough to hunt someone down to the ends of the earth. But I assume the context here is a motivated intelligence agency or similarly resourceful and persistent organization (e.g. DoJ no longer able to turn a blind eye). Either way, though, the easiest way to hunt someone down is to follow the money. Sources: Movies. Education. Traveling and meeting "interesting" expats from various countries fleeing everything you'd expect (wives, taxes, poverty, etc) except prosecution for heinous crimes, if their stories are to be believed.
- smoyer 7y ago
  I'm not either but I believe what you've stated to be true and am skeptical that he actually hung himself.
  - peteretep 7y ago
    > am skeptical that he actually hung himself The simplest explanation here, if you’re trying to include outside interference, is that a patient on suicide watch was intentionally allowed conditions in which he could finish the job. Why hang him when you can intentionally botch the surveillance and he’ll hang himself for you? Much cleaner.
    - AndrewBissell 7y ago
      In the words of the TrueAnon hosts "10% chance that they just MKUltra'd him into killing himself."
- auntienomen 7y ago
  She is under investigation. That's step 1 to extradition. https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/27/jeffrey-epstein-friend-ghislaine-maxwell-under-fbi-investigation.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/27/jeffrey-epstein-friend-ghisl...
- fnord123 7y ago
  I think the common suspicion is that Epstein had an Eli Cohen style role and Maxwell was his handler.
jimbob45 7y ago
Even simpler: planes, private islands, and lawyers are expensive. Someone came looking for a lot of money they were owed.
KoftaBob 7y ago
Bingo. Based on just what's publicly known about him and Ghislaine Maxwell, it's pretty obvious they're both tied with Israeli intelligence and were collecting blackmail material the Mossad could use to "influence" powerful people. Sexual blackmail is intelligence 101.
- toephu2 7y ago
  Yes, because 90% of HNers are ex-CIA. We should have known this, it's intelligence 101.
  - ta999999171 7y ago
    You don't have to be ex-TLA to read enough.
- econcon 7y ago
  Heck even Chinese businesses used this technique against East European politicians.
krn 7y ago
> The fact that even after his life there aren't gobs of collaborators being arrested also leads me to think that he wasn't even in charge of the whole thing. There are enough reasons to believe that Jeffrey Epstein might have operated a honeypot for Mossad, and Ghislaine Maxwell was his handler: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21410931 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21410931 That would explain why Jeffrey Epstein’s injuries look more like murder than suicide, according to a pathologist: https://www.miamiherald.com/news/state/florida/article236809668.html https://www.miamiherald.com/news/state/florida/article236809... And why the surveillance footage from the night of his first suicide attempt went missing: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/12/19/surveillance-footage-night-epstein-suicide-attempt-goes-missing/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/12/19/surveillance-foo... Personally, I believe that he was a kind of person who would have never killed himself. And that's not the only thing he had in common with Donald J. Trump: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/donald-trump-rape-case_n_581a31a5e4b0c43e6c1d9834 https://www.huffpost.com/entry/donald-trump-rape-case_n_581a... > The accuser says Trump raped her repeatedly at parties thrown by since-convicted pedophile Jeffrey Epstein, who was widely known to throw wild parties with young women and girls. Needless to say, the current US policy in Middle East has given Israel almost everything it has ever asked for, and what no other Western nation has agreed with: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_recognition_of_Jerusalem_as_capital_of_Israel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_recognition_of_J... > Trump's decision to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital was rejected by a majority of world leaders. The United Nations Security Council held an emergency meeting on December 7 where 14 out of 15 members condemned Trump's decision, but the motion was vetoed by the United States.
- solotronics 7y ago
  It's easy to say "this is bad" but put yourself in the position of the Israeli leadership. They are a tiny country surrounded by enemies and a people who have experienced horrible atrocities in the recent past. Even though it is wrong I accept that the logical actions for them is to set up exteme measures of blackmail and espionage to further the security of their people and homeland. It's literally a survival issue for them and possibly morally equivalent to a starving person stealing bread.
Consultant32452 7y ago
I've come to the conclusion that he was an intelligence asset. The dog that doesn't bark is the fact that, to my knowledge, there are no on the record statements from the intelligence community which deny he was an asset. What's even more conspicuous is that there is clearly a strong interest by the public. Even if all these "conspiracy theories" are false, you could get a LOT of viewership just going around debunking them. But it's like complete silence from the traditional corporate media.
- meowface 7y ago
  Intelligence agencies never confirm or deny such things, and how can you debunk something that's not currently possible to prove or disprove? I think almost no one, including the media, knows what really happened. There are a huge array of different forking possibilities.
  - Consultant32452 7y ago
    If the intelligence community can't publicly deny that perhaps the most prolific child rapist in known history was an asset, we have serious problems. Regardless of standard policy.
    - wahern 7y ago
      > the most prolific child rapist in known history I think maybe your cynicism is misplaced. The world is a far uglier place than your comment presumes. And relative to the kinds of people intelligence agencies must deal with sometimes, Epstein's crimes and alleged crimes probably wouldn't raise an eyebrow. (Which isn't a comment on whether they were blackmail worthy.)
      - meowface 7y ago
        It all depends on what really happened. First off, he may have had no involvement with intelligence whatsoever, or beyond being interrogated after his arrest. If the intelligence agencies did set all of this up and told him to get real underaged girls (rather than actors pretending to be underaged) to blackmail people, or knew this was happening and allowed it to continue for so long, that'd actually be big. That's state-sponsored child sex trafficking and rape. But there are so many other possibilities in between that and "no involvement".
mc32 7y ago
I wonder if Ronan could working on this story (along with others who had their stories spiked). He’s often gone where other reporters don’t dare but maybe this one is beyond even him.
pnathan 7y ago
It seems clear that Epstein was involved in Very Corrupt Things with VIPs. I don't know that I would say more than there's a lot of arse covering at this point, but it doesn't look good for those who visited his palaces - they have a vested interest in covering it up.
freyir 7y ago
How many billionaires and high-ranking officials could one guy set up before rumors started circulating and people caught on? And why wouldn’t they have had him knocked off sooner?
- catalogia 7y ago
  If somebody got ensnared in that sort of thing, I don't think they'd be quick to gossip about it.
  - freyir 7y ago
    He’s been a known sex trafficker with close ties to US politicians for decades. You think the CIA would not look into him?
- solotronics 7y ago
  The blackmailed would worry that there would be a "deadmans switch" set up that would automatically release the material if not periodically confirmed. Obviously Epsteins deadmans switch was either someone he couldn't really trust, was flawed, or never really existed. If he was smart it would release in steps and be totally digital and dispersed around to many places. If it was me I would have incriminating videos of someone lower on the totem pole released first so that people knew you were serious if they put you in jail. This is why he was locked up then killed after a period in jail, they wanted to see if he had a real deadmans switch. You would need something automatically released and they would need to be low enough so they couldn't get you killed when you burn them. This way everyone else would have to believe you had more automatic release set up.
booboolayla 7y ago
Be careful about going down this rabbit hole, or you might end up being called a cOnSpiRacY ThEOriSt.

mgolawala 7y ago

I am not normally a conspiracy theorist.. but I have come to suspect the same. One example, despite all that has come up in the this case, and the number of times Ghislaine Maxwell's name has been brought up, there is no word of her whereabouts. Unless we think she is some Jason Bourne level expert that can just make herself disappear, I can think of only three explanations - 1) The law enforcement agencies are choosing not to find her and track her down for some reason. 2) She is being kept hidden (willingly or unwillingly) by someone else who has the means and ability to do so. 3) She is already dead and her body will turn up at some point. The thought there could be such types of 'cover ups' in the western democratic world is very scary. I was always certain this stuff only happened in the movies, now I am not as sure about that.

micah94 7y ago
You might have missed this: https://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Ghislaine-Maxwell-accused-of-helping-Epstein-reportedly-hides-in-Israel-613367 https://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Ghislaine-Maxwell-accused-...
- notyourday 7y ago
  Where there's a will, there's a way. Start squeezing her assets. Socialites cannot live without spending hundreds of thousands dollars a year which is difficult to do when one's accounts are frozen.
  - jdck1326 7y ago
    And risk upsetting Israel?
    - HeWhoLurksLate 7y ago
      You have a point.
    - shard972 7y ago
      Oh no, somehow the worst thing the west can do! Why is that?
marriedWpt 7y ago
Your surprise that this happens under democracy- does that change your political views? It doesn't change mine. The government is notorious for being corrupt and inefficient. I hear this and it makes me horrified of the thought of government takeover of a sector.
- baroomba 7y ago
  I'm not sure the government failing, for whatever reason, to hold private organizations and individuals to account for their wrongdoing is quite a clear, blanket argument against government power, in favor of the power of private organizations and individuals.
  - AndrewBissell 7y ago
    "The government is failing to pursue these sadistic pedophiles! Better just leave everything in their hands and not empower the government to do anything."
- nickthemagicman 7y ago
  Oh come on you mean to tell me that private industries aren't full of nepotism, bribery, corruption, and incompetence? Thalidomide, 737 max, Enron... Meanwhile tons of public sectors run silently but smoothly and are taken for granted. Your argument to demonize the public sector is ill considered, cliched, simple minded, and one sided.
- gameswithgo 7y ago
  >The government is notorious for being corrupt and inefficient So is the private sector. Excellence is rare. Such is life, welcome to earth.
  - marriedWpt 7y ago
    The private sector goes out of business. The government lives until it collapses.
giarc 7y ago
If she's sitting in a cafe in some random country, let's say Morocco or Bermuda, what is their law enforcements motivation for finding her? As far as I understand, there is no arrest warrant out for her, nor any Interpol involvement. They've got better things to do, so I wouldn't be so quick to assume law enforcement around the world is in on this.
- papreclip 7y ago
  Morocco and Bermuda are pretty naive guesses. Her mother was a "holocaust expert" and her father was not merely an agent for the Mossad but some sort of hero in the organization. She's practically Israeli royalty
- dsfyu404ed 7y ago
  >what is their law enforcements motivation for finding her? If even a fraction of what is alleged about Epstein's schemes is true then whoever has her can obtain the kind of dirt that multi-billion dollar intelligence agencies can only dream of. As another commenters said she is probably in Israel. By virtue of connections and it having a very big stake in not pissing off the US too much she is unlikely to get the $5 wrench treatment there.
  - Relys 7y ago
    Who's not to say that they weren't already intelligence assets and this whole kompromat operation was actually ran by a nation-state or collection of nation-states?
    - hylaride 7y ago
      I enjoy a good conspiracy theory as entertainment, but I'm kind of having a mind blown moment with this Epstein stuff...
      - ra5 7y ago
        Same here. It's incredibly striking to sort of see the pieces laid out in front of you, really _feel_ that they put together facts, but not have the glue you need to objectively/factually put them all together. To me it feels like the "Israeli operative" scenario seems pretty legit.
tzs 7y ago
Is it actually hard to disappear if you have money?
- wahern 7y ago
  If you want to keep the money, presumably yes. If you don't mind becoming an anonymous but financially insecure expat in the jungles of South America or Asia, then sure.
  - readhn 7y ago
    whats the going rate for a plastic face change surgery and a new US passport/identity? Will $500,000 do? Next step is setup private offshore trust/fund with new identity being the beneficiary. money problem solved. Ideally have all of the "new identity" paper work done well before it is needed: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/jeffrey-epstein-used-foreign-passport-fake-name-enter-saudi-arabia-n1031046 https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/jeffrey-...
    - wahern 7y ago
      1) If you're throwing lots of money around, there's a trail of evidence--electronic, paper, gossip. 2) If people know you're trying to hide--because you're getting face change surgery, because you're trying to launder gobs of cash--you're vulnerable to extortion, theft, and murder, in the moment and in perpetuity. (Again, the world is an ugly place filled with untold numbers of nasty people and billions of desperate people.) You need either the law or a credible threat of retaliation to protect large assets. The former requires identity and a trail of evidence of ownership, not to mention reliable law enforcement; the latter requires reputation, which requires identity and a trail of evidence of retaliation. And except for industrial countries with a strong rule of law (i.e. the places you're probably trying to flee), both the law and the jungle require regular payments in cash, favors, or blood, commensurate with the assets you're trying to protect, to maintain the state of things. Not only can that quickly diminish your wealth, you're creating an ever larger footprint. Is it possible? Theoretically, just like in the movies. But it's not easy. And it's not easy to pivot from an ultra rich, jet setting, flamboyant con-man to an anonymous nobody. It's worth noting that your link proves my point--his fake identity was readily discovered with a routine search warrant and home inspection. Epstein wasn't willing to give up the comforts of his public persona and the convenience of switching between his identities. And he clearly wasn't willing to flee before he got caught, which is something of a prerequisite. Having some money is a good start. You can buy a bar or a hostel in some far flung part of the world where nobody asks questions, and hopefully you can coast for several decades. Maybe you can hide just enough gold and currency to maintain a comfortable life without drawing attention; enough to match the flow of retirement benefits (Social Security, etc), which can often be drawn down regardless of residency and are a common source of income for older expats. Otherwise, it's just mo' money, mo' problems. On the other hand, it's rare for authorities to care enough to hunt someone down to the ends of the earth. But I assume the context here is a motivated intelligence agency or similarly resourceful and persistent organization (e.g. DoJ no longer able to turn a blind eye). Either way, though, the easiest way to hunt someone down is to follow the money. Sources: Movies. Education. Traveling and meeting "interesting" expats from various countries fleeing everything you'd expect (wives, taxes, poverty, etc) except prosecution for heinous crimes, if their stories are to be believed.
smoyer 7y ago
I'm not either but I believe what you've stated to be true and am skeptical that he actually hung himself.
- peteretep 7y ago
  > am skeptical that he actually hung himself The simplest explanation here, if you’re trying to include outside interference, is that a patient on suicide watch was intentionally allowed conditions in which he could finish the job. Why hang him when you can intentionally botch the surveillance and he’ll hang himself for you? Much cleaner.
  - AndrewBissell 7y ago
    In the words of the TrueAnon hosts "10% chance that they just MKUltra'd him into killing himself."
auntienomen 7y ago
She is under investigation. That's step 1 to extradition. https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/27/jeffrey-epstein-friend-ghislaine-maxwell-under-fbi-investigation.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/27/jeffrey-epstein-friend-ghisl...
fnord123 7y ago
I think the common suspicion is that Epstein had an Eli Cohen style role and Maxwell was his handler.

jimbob45 7y ago

Even simpler: planes, private islands, and lawyers are expensive. Someone came looking for a lot of money they were owed.

KoftaBob 7y ago

Bingo. Based on just what's publicly known about him and Ghislaine Maxwell, it's pretty obvious they're both tied with Israeli intelligence and were collecting blackmail material the Mossad could use to "influence" powerful people. Sexual blackmail is intelligence 101.

toephu2 7y ago
Yes, because 90% of HNers are ex-CIA. We should have known this, it's intelligence 101.
- ta999999171 7y ago
  You don't have to be ex-TLA to read enough.
econcon 7y ago
Heck even Chinese businesses used this technique against East European politicians.

krn 7y ago

> The fact that even after his life there aren't gobs of collaborators being arrested also leads me to think that he wasn't even in charge of the whole thing. There are enough reasons to believe that Jeffrey Epstein might have operated a honeypot for Mossad, and Ghislaine Maxwell was his handler: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21410931 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21410931 That would explain why Jeffrey Epstein’s injuries look more like murder than suicide, according to a pathologist: https://www.miamiherald.com/news/state/florida/article236809668.html https://www.miamiherald.com/news/state/florida/article236809... And why the surveillance footage from the night of his first suicide attempt went missing: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/12/19/surveillance-footage-night-epstein-suicide-attempt-goes-missing/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/12/19/surveillance-foo... Personally, I believe that he was a kind of person who would have never killed himself. And that's not the only thing he had in common with Donald J. Trump: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/donald-trump-rape-case_n_581a31a5e4b0c43e6c1d9834 https://www.huffpost.com/entry/donald-trump-rape-case_n_581a... > The accuser says Trump raped her repeatedly at parties thrown by since-convicted pedophile Jeffrey Epstein, who was widely known to throw wild parties with young women and girls. Needless to say, the current US policy in Middle East has given Israel almost everything it has ever asked for, and what no other Western nation has agreed with: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_recognition_of_Jerusalem_as_capital_of_Israel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_recognition_of_J... > Trump's decision to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital was rejected by a majority of world leaders. The United Nations Security Council held an emergency meeting on December 7 where 14 out of 15 members condemned Trump's decision, but the motion was vetoed by the United States.

solotronics 7y ago
It's easy to say "this is bad" but put yourself in the position of the Israeli leadership. They are a tiny country surrounded by enemies and a people who have experienced horrible atrocities in the recent past. Even though it is wrong I accept that the logical actions for them is to set up exteme measures of blackmail and espionage to further the security of their people and homeland. It's literally a survival issue for them and possibly morally equivalent to a starving person stealing bread.

Consultant32452 7y ago

I've come to the conclusion that he was an intelligence asset. The dog that doesn't bark is the fact that, to my knowledge, there are no on the record statements from the intelligence community which deny he was an asset. What's even more conspicuous is that there is clearly a strong interest by the public. Even if all these "conspiracy theories" are false, you could get a LOT of viewership just going around debunking them. But it's like complete silence from the traditional corporate media.

meowface 7y ago
Intelligence agencies never confirm or deny such things, and how can you debunk something that's not currently possible to prove or disprove? I think almost no one, including the media, knows what really happened. There are a huge array of different forking possibilities.
- Consultant32452 7y ago
  If the intelligence community can't publicly deny that perhaps the most prolific child rapist in known history was an asset, we have serious problems. Regardless of standard policy.
  - wahern 7y ago
    > the most prolific child rapist in known history I think maybe your cynicism is misplaced. The world is a far uglier place than your comment presumes. And relative to the kinds of people intelligence agencies must deal with sometimes, Epstein's crimes and alleged crimes probably wouldn't raise an eyebrow. (Which isn't a comment on whether they were blackmail worthy.)
    - meowface 7y ago
      It all depends on what really happened. First off, he may have had no involvement with intelligence whatsoever, or beyond being interrogated after his arrest. If the intelligence agencies did set all of this up and told him to get real underaged girls (rather than actors pretending to be underaged) to blackmail people, or knew this was happening and allowed it to continue for so long, that'd actually be big. That's state-sponsored child sex trafficking and rape. But there are so many other possibilities in between that and "no involvement".

mc32 7y ago

I wonder if Ronan could working on this story (along with others who had their stories spiked). He’s often gone where other reporters don’t dare but maybe this one is beyond even him.

pnathan 7y ago

It seems clear that Epstein was involved in Very Corrupt Things with VIPs. I don't know that I would say more than there's a lot of arse covering at this point, but it doesn't look good for those who visited his palaces - they have a vested interest in covering it up.

freyir 7y ago

How many billionaires and high-ranking officials could one guy set up before rumors started circulating and people caught on? And why wouldn’t they have had him knocked off sooner?

catalogia 7y ago
If somebody got ensnared in that sort of thing, I don't think they'd be quick to gossip about it.
- freyir 7y ago
  He’s been a known sex trafficker with close ties to US politicians for decades. You think the CIA would not look into him?
solotronics 7y ago
The blackmailed would worry that there would be a "deadmans switch" set up that would automatically release the material if not periodically confirmed. Obviously Epsteins deadmans switch was either someone he couldn't really trust, was flawed, or never really existed. If he was smart it would release in steps and be totally digital and dispersed around to many places. If it was me I would have incriminating videos of someone lower on the totem pole released first so that people knew you were serious if they put you in jail. This is why he was locked up then killed after a period in jail, they wanted to see if he had a real deadmans switch. You would need something automatically released and they would need to be low enough so they couldn't get you killed when you burn them. This way everyone else would have to believe you had more automatic release set up.

booboolayla 7y ago

Be careful about going down this rabbit hole, or you might end up being called a cOnSpiRacY ThEOriSt.