6 ms·

I'm a bit more optimistic than the author. Whatever the name ends up being, this is phenomenon is only getting better known and pretty soon lots of communities

I'm a bit more optimistic than the author. Whatever the name ends up being, this is phenomenon is only getting better known and pretty soon lots of communities will be immunized against it when a majority of the people in them have already seen it happen before and start calling it out in the early stages. Purity spirals will never completely stop, but their impact will likely be contained, starting in, oh, a couple decades or so.

kevin_thibedeau 7y ago
There are other organizations who use the same techniques under the guise of religion. Many of them are quite successful.
- andrewflnr 7y ago
  Not as much as you would think. In particular, religious groups that enter really tight spirals tend to blow themselves out. I'd say religions are successful in spite of their purity spirals rather than because of them.
  - mcguire 7y ago
    See also the Southern Baptists.
- ars 7y ago
  I think I read you wrong initially. You're not saying religions do this, rather there are groups who pretend to be religions that do this. And you're correct about that. Religions tend to have a very specific set of rules and that's it. So there's no spiral, rather there is a specific level to get to and no further. But these other groups do tend to spiral. However they also tend to burn themselves out quite quickly. It's one of the ways of distinguishing a religion from a cult.
_bxg1 7y ago
We can hope. The internet is an unprecedented acceleration mechanism for this pattern; that's why it's becoming so common. It's possible that with that commonality will come awareness; it's possible it won't. We'll see.
- andrewflnr 7y ago
  Awareness is already on the way. It's been there from the beginning in primitive form in the right wing's disdain for "political correctness", but I've seen pretty hard-line progressives acknowledge that cancel culture (IMO a different face of the same problem) is toxic. This is biting everyone, and even though humans are dumb sometimes, it's not a stretch to believe that we'll notice it. The internet accelerates identification and naming of problems as well.
  - _bxg1 7y ago
    The problem with the "anti-political-correctness" camp is that it traditionally goes much farther. It's all relative, I suppose, but "turns out cancel culture might be bad" is a long way off from "I resent the very idea of having to be considerate towards others". And then those two and everything in-between get lumped all together, so that the former tends to be judged based on the latter's history.
    - andrewflnr 7y ago
      > The problem with the "anti-political-correctness" camp is that it traditionally goes much farther. I think it only stereotypically goes farther. Consider the viewpoint of someone who sees no difference between an outspoken feminist and something at the head of one of these spirals, and consider whether you might be in the same position regarding the right wing. Certainly, the environment I grew up in was simultaneously disdainful of political correctness while demanding courtesy toward everyone.
    - api 7y ago
      > The problem with the "anti-political-correctness" camp is that it traditionally goes much farther People always overcorrect. Always. One generation's parenting is too hands off? The next generation will helicopter parent. Political correctness getting too puritanical and histrionic? People react by literally embracing Naziism. Democracy shows signs of stagnation and corruption? We get neoreaction. The Internet seems to intensify this too because all the social platforms are programmed to prioritize content so as to drive engagement. Maximum divisiveness drives engagement, not balanced opinions.
downerending 7y ago
Unfortunately, many of us will be dead by then.

kevin_thibedeau 7y ago

There are other organizations who use the same techniques under the guise of religion. Many of them are quite successful.

andrewflnr 7y ago
Not as much as you would think. In particular, religious groups that enter really tight spirals tend to blow themselves out. I'd say religions are successful in spite of their purity spirals rather than because of them.
- mcguire 7y ago
  See also the Southern Baptists.
ars 7y ago
I think I read you wrong initially. You're not saying religions do this, rather there are groups who pretend to be religions that do this. And you're correct about that. Religions tend to have a very specific set of rules and that's it. So there's no spiral, rather there is a specific level to get to and no further. But these other groups do tend to spiral. However they also tend to burn themselves out quite quickly. It's one of the ways of distinguishing a religion from a cult.

_bxg1 7y ago

We can hope. The internet is an unprecedented acceleration mechanism for this pattern; that's why it's becoming so common. It's possible that with that commonality will come awareness; it's possible it won't. We'll see.

andrewflnr 7y ago
Awareness is already on the way. It's been there from the beginning in primitive form in the right wing's disdain for "political correctness", but I've seen pretty hard-line progressives acknowledge that cancel culture (IMO a different face of the same problem) is toxic. This is biting everyone, and even though humans are dumb sometimes, it's not a stretch to believe that we'll notice it. The internet accelerates identification and naming of problems as well.
- _bxg1 7y ago
  The problem with the "anti-political-correctness" camp is that it traditionally goes much farther. It's all relative, I suppose, but "turns out cancel culture might be bad" is a long way off from "I resent the very idea of having to be considerate towards others". And then those two and everything in-between get lumped all together, so that the former tends to be judged based on the latter's history.
  - andrewflnr 7y ago
    > The problem with the "anti-political-correctness" camp is that it traditionally goes much farther. I think it only stereotypically goes farther. Consider the viewpoint of someone who sees no difference between an outspoken feminist and something at the head of one of these spirals, and consider whether you might be in the same position regarding the right wing. Certainly, the environment I grew up in was simultaneously disdainful of political correctness while demanding courtesy toward everyone.
  - api 7y ago
    > The problem with the "anti-political-correctness" camp is that it traditionally goes much farther People always overcorrect. Always. One generation's parenting is too hands off? The next generation will helicopter parent. Political correctness getting too puritanical and histrionic? People react by literally embracing Naziism. Democracy shows signs of stagnation and corruption? We get neoreaction. The Internet seems to intensify this too because all the social platforms are programmed to prioritize content so as to drive engagement. Maximum divisiveness drives engagement, not balanced opinions.

downerending 7y ago

Unfortunately, many of us will be dead by then.