6 ms·

Anyone who criticizes McKinsey has no idea how consulting, or real companies, or the real world, works. These anti-Pete articles are so shallow and ignorant. A

Anyone who criticizes McKinsey has no idea how consulting, or real companies, or the real world, works. These anti-Pete articles are so shallow and ignorant. Any parent would have been proud to have their son get a job there at his age. I guess in 4 years the only acceptable prior job to being president is a lemonade salesperson. Most people, including middle class folks, don't have the luxury of only choosing non-profit jobs or volunteering.

tempsy 7y ago
I think there’s a perfectly valid question as to whether the best and brightest going into prestige shops for the sake of building prestige is the best use of talent in our society.
- matchbok 7y ago
  That's up to them, and the market. It is not their fault those industries pay more.
  - tempsy 7y ago
    No one is saying it isn’t. It’s just a critique. Calm down.
    - matchbok 7y ago
      I'm pretty calm, actually, thanks. Seems like you are the one who needs to calm down by assuming as such.
  - _jal 7y ago
    So which is it - not Pete's fault, or something to be proud of? For the record, I grew up very poor. Lower-middle class was an unattainable aspiration for my parents. I'm doing very well for myself, and have never compromised my morals to do so. I turned down good paying jobs when it hurt to do so because the work was slimy. You don't have to sell yourself out to make money. If you do, that's a choice. (To be clear, I'm not saying Mayo Pete is a sell out - I don't really care enough to look, but from what I've seen he seems like a true believer in the notion that his job is to tell the proles why they can't have nice things while cutting deals in wine caves. It is easy to understand why the Democrats produce so many of these people; what is inexplicable to me is why anyone except Republicans like them.)
    - remarkEon 7y ago
      >...what is inexplicable to me is why anyone except Republicans like them Might be my own bubble, or perhaps things are changing, but I haven't met a Republican that likes these people. They are usual quite hostile to them.
      - _jal 7y ago
        Because they cause internecine conflict on the other side, not as someone to vote for.
    - manigandham 7y ago
      > "You don't have to sell yourself out to make money. If you do, that's a choice." You'll find that the many people today (like the author) will consider you to be very privileged for having the opportunity to do so.
  - remarkEon 7y ago
    Okay, then perhaps it's our fault that those industries pay more. There might be policy options that could change this. "Let the market decide" is unfortunately, at least in my view, becoming an almost religious creed.
- suvir_c 7y ago
  to be fair, he entered local gov after mckinsey
- manigandham 7y ago
  The answer to the question is no. It's not hard to imagine utopia where everyone's efforts are maximized to drive humanity forward. But in reality it's up to the individual to decide what they want to do. Discussions about choosing the "best" use of talent often devolve into a subjective moral hierarchy and predeterminism.
- cubecul 7y ago
  If they go in for 2 years and come out to do other things, like many of us did/do, seems like there's not much loss. Reference point: my McK class had 40 people start about 5 years ago, and today only 2 are still there.
  - majos 7y ago
    What do people usually do afterward?
    - cubecul 7y ago
      I have seen (these are from a broader pool of a couple hundred people +/- 1 year from me): business school, other/real graduate school (e.g., math), private equity, political campaigns (e.g., Buttigieg's), startup founder, startup early employee, tech companies of all roles (commonly biz ops and PM), software engineer, restaurant line cook, large corporations (e.g., McDonald's). Essentially, the same stuff high-achieving new grads do, but I would say my peers come out a little sharper on communication, operating independently, driving work efficiently, etc.
DoofusOfDeath 7y ago
> Anyone who criticizes McKinsey has no idea how consulting, or real companies, or the real world, works. What corrections would you suggest for the article?
linksnapzz 7y ago
Anyone who criticizes McKinsey has no idea how consulting, or real companies, or the real world, works. "Beware of the 'real world'; a speaker's appeal to it is always an invitation to not challenge his tacit assumptions." My suspicion is that Edsger Dijkstra wouldn't have found management consultants to be terribly useful.
appleiigs 7y ago
> Anyone who criticizes McKinsey has no idea how consulting, or real companies, or the real world, works. LOL. I'll tell you how it would go if you brought in a consultant for a library. The consultant would produce the most beautiful wire-frame UI you ever seen, with lots of arrows, buttons and stuff. It would organize all books in a neat table by title, author, publishing date, etc. Then at go-live, you'll realize the table is all funked up because "JK Rowling", "J.K. Rowling" and "J. K. Rowling" are all listed as different authors. Let the behind schedule and over-budget fun begin. Whereas, if you asked the nice old lady who's been a librarian for 30 years, she would have told you to start with a table of authors first and then build up to the UI from there, not in reverse.
- fzeroracer 7y ago
  To be fair, the CEO is generating more market value by creating a bunch of mistakes, hiring people to fix the mistakes and then offloading those costs onto the consumers. Why make something good when you can make something bad and force people to pay in order to make it decent?
jariel 7y ago
"Anyone who criticizes McKinsey has no idea how consulting, or real companies, or the real world, works." Anyone who thinks that McKinsey is above criticism definitely has no idea how consulting, or the real world works.
- matchbok 7y ago
  Not talking about McKinsey, talking about someone working there. Big difference.
raxxorrax 7y ago
> no idea how consulting [...] works I don't know, does it work? Our government hired them once. Was a bit of a scandal and didn't produce results. But I should thank them for trying to get help at least. I think the criticism in the article is on point here.

tempsy 7y ago

I think there’s a perfectly valid question as to whether the best and brightest going into prestige shops for the sake of building prestige is the best use of talent in our society.

matchbok 7y ago
That's up to them, and the market. It is not their fault those industries pay more.
- tempsy 7y ago
  No one is saying it isn’t. It’s just a critique. Calm down.
  - matchbok 7y ago
    I'm pretty calm, actually, thanks. Seems like you are the one who needs to calm down by assuming as such.
- _jal 7y ago
  So which is it - not Pete's fault, or something to be proud of? For the record, I grew up very poor. Lower-middle class was an unattainable aspiration for my parents. I'm doing very well for myself, and have never compromised my morals to do so. I turned down good paying jobs when it hurt to do so because the work was slimy. You don't have to sell yourself out to make money. If you do, that's a choice. (To be clear, I'm not saying Mayo Pete is a sell out - I don't really care enough to look, but from what I've seen he seems like a true believer in the notion that his job is to tell the proles why they can't have nice things while cutting deals in wine caves. It is easy to understand why the Democrats produce so many of these people; what is inexplicable to me is why anyone except Republicans like them.)
  - remarkEon 7y ago
    >...what is inexplicable to me is why anyone except Republicans like them Might be my own bubble, or perhaps things are changing, but I haven't met a Republican that likes these people. They are usual quite hostile to them.
    - _jal 7y ago
      Because they cause internecine conflict on the other side, not as someone to vote for.
  - manigandham 7y ago
    > "You don't have to sell yourself out to make money. If you do, that's a choice." You'll find that the many people today (like the author) will consider you to be very privileged for having the opportunity to do so.
- remarkEon 7y ago
  Okay, then perhaps it's our fault that those industries pay more. There might be policy options that could change this. "Let the market decide" is unfortunately, at least in my view, becoming an almost religious creed.
suvir_c 7y ago
to be fair, he entered local gov after mckinsey
manigandham 7y ago
The answer to the question is no. It's not hard to imagine utopia where everyone's efforts are maximized to drive humanity forward. But in reality it's up to the individual to decide what they want to do. Discussions about choosing the "best" use of talent often devolve into a subjective moral hierarchy and predeterminism.
cubecul 7y ago
If they go in for 2 years and come out to do other things, like many of us did/do, seems like there's not much loss. Reference point: my McK class had 40 people start about 5 years ago, and today only 2 are still there.
- majos 7y ago
  What do people usually do afterward?
  - cubecul 7y ago
    I have seen (these are from a broader pool of a couple hundred people +/- 1 year from me): business school, other/real graduate school (e.g., math), private equity, political campaigns (e.g., Buttigieg's), startup founder, startup early employee, tech companies of all roles (commonly biz ops and PM), software engineer, restaurant line cook, large corporations (e.g., McDonald's). Essentially, the same stuff high-achieving new grads do, but I would say my peers come out a little sharper on communication, operating independently, driving work efficiently, etc.

DoofusOfDeath 7y ago

> Anyone who criticizes McKinsey has no idea how consulting, or real companies, or the real world, works. What corrections would you suggest for the article?

linksnapzz 7y ago

Anyone who criticizes McKinsey has no idea how consulting, or real companies, or the real world, works. "Beware of the 'real world'; a speaker's appeal to it is always an invitation to not challenge his tacit assumptions." My suspicion is that Edsger Dijkstra wouldn't have found management consultants to be terribly useful.

appleiigs 7y ago

> Anyone who criticizes McKinsey has no idea how consulting, or real companies, or the real world, works. LOL. I'll tell you how it would go if you brought in a consultant for a library. The consultant would produce the most beautiful wire-frame UI you ever seen, with lots of arrows, buttons and stuff. It would organize all books in a neat table by title, author, publishing date, etc. Then at go-live, you'll realize the table is all funked up because "JK Rowling", "J.K. Rowling" and "J. K. Rowling" are all listed as different authors. Let the behind schedule and over-budget fun begin. Whereas, if you asked the nice old lady who's been a librarian for 30 years, she would have told you to start with a table of authors first and then build up to the UI from there, not in reverse.

fzeroracer 7y ago
To be fair, the CEO is generating more market value by creating a bunch of mistakes, hiring people to fix the mistakes and then offloading those costs onto the consumers. Why make something good when you can make something bad and force people to pay in order to make it decent?

jariel 7y ago

"Anyone who criticizes McKinsey has no idea how consulting, or real companies, or the real world, works." Anyone who thinks that McKinsey is above criticism definitely has no idea how consulting, or the real world works.

matchbok 7y ago
Not talking about McKinsey, talking about someone working there. Big difference.

raxxorrax 7y ago

> no idea how consulting [...] works I don't know, does it work? Our government hired them once. Was a bit of a scandal and didn't produce results. But I should thank them for trying to get help at least. I think the criticism in the article is on point here.