5 ms·

Seems like this is a good time to ask the question: Why the heck would any (good) engineer work for the CIA? EDIT: I realize now after re-reading this comment

Seems like this is a good time to ask the question: Why the heck would any (good) engineer work for the CIA? EDIT: I realize now after re-reading this comment that it could definitely come off as very abrasive. I won't alter it so everyone can see the original. Sorry if I offended anyone, I purely meant it from the standpoint of an engineer who has control of their own career (and likely desires more money/status) and understands the kind of precedent this creates and what it means for preservation of self if one were to work in the CIA.

reroute1 7y ago
What's the answer to 99 out of 100 questions? Money.
- loeg 7y ago
  The money isn't compelling. It's below market and requires more hoop-jumping than most employers.
- blackearl 7y ago
  That's why you work for a private company that works on government contracts. Working directly for gov doesn't pay
muratsu 7y ago
Some people probably believe in the mission and prefer to work for the organization. Not everyone is motivated by stock options or benefits, etc.
- craigc 7y ago
  And what exactly is the “mission” here? Overthrowing democratically elected governments in other countries? Assassinating foreign agents? Starting coups in other parts of the world? Running global drug trafficking operations?
  - muratsu 7y ago
    Quoting from cia.gov: "Preempt threats and further US national security objectives by collecting intelligence that matters, producing objective all-source analysis, conducting effective covert action as directed by the President, and safeguarding the secrets that help keep our Nation safe." I'm trying to be as non-judgemental as possible and could see that some people might find this mission compelling.
  - president 7y ago
    Just curious, if these things were necessary to protect your freedom, your children’s freedom, and the future of world order, (hypothetically) would you be opposed to your government doing those things?
    - ethanbond 7y ago
      Don't you know that all threats to individual freedom have been eradicated forevermore? Now the IC just runs around terrorizing innocent people for the fun of it. (Sarcasm, in case it isn't obvious).
    - oska 7y ago
      The only one of the four the GP listed that I could see as meeting your criteria is 'assassinating foreign agents'. And I would see the requirement to do that (to meet your criteria) as very, very rare.
  - SamuelAdams 7y ago
    Preempt threats and further US national security objectives by collecting intelligence that matters, producing objective all-source analysis, conducting effective covert action as directed by the President, and safeguarding the secrets that help keep our Nation safe. https://www.cia.gov/about-cia/cia-vision-mission-values/index.html https://www.cia.gov/about-cia/cia-vision-mission-values/inde...
  - salawat 7y ago
    If you have to ask, then it is probably not your cup of tea. Think of it like the guy in Firefly hunting down the Tam's. He is convinced he's doing work to create a paradise for everyone else, ostensibly in the hope said paradise will never have a need for someone like him. People who engage with the apparatus do so because at some fundamental level, they have reason to believe the work has to be done, and many take on the responsibility of doing it to spare others of the burden of having to do so. If you haven't lived or experienced something that's lit that spark, it generally means that someone else is hard at work trying to keep it that way. Some people never experience it, and most of the ones who have had that spark lit that I know tend to hope those around them never do. It changes you. Most I've talked to are non-committal as to whether the change was good or bad, but almost all felt it was their duty to step up.
- mariuolo 7y ago
  Yes, he probably was an idealist who grew disillusioned by what he saw. Otherwise why risk divulging state secrets?
  - muratsu 7y ago
    To figure out why he did it is part of the Trial, isn't it? Maybe it's what you've just said, or maybe he did it for fame, maybe a 3rd party forced him, maybe he just had enough of it, etc..
    - harry8 7y ago
      You're assuming his guilt there. That seems like an unwarranted assumption.
domikazi 7y ago
What about the ability to create exploits with the intention of being malicious to foreign actors?
non-entity 7y ago
Actually, I looked out of curiosity once, a while back and they have some moderately interesting work available which is more than I could say for a large swath of the jobs out there. That being said, the pay was insulting for the skills desired and location (DC metro supposedly isn't cheap). I personally wouldnt work for the out of principle and probably wouldnt ever qualify (no degree, plus I have expressed views that would probably disqualify me anyway)
compuguy 7y ago
Seriously? Being a cleared engineer, especially in the Washington DC area is a pretty decent career. Demand is pretty good these days with the current move from on prem facilities to the cloud as well...
lonelappde 7y ago
Money, location, excitement for spycraft, their sense of patriotism.

reroute1 7y ago

What's the answer to 99 out of 100 questions? Money.

loeg 7y ago
The money isn't compelling. It's below market and requires more hoop-jumping than most employers.
blackearl 7y ago
That's why you work for a private company that works on government contracts. Working directly for gov doesn't pay

muratsu 7y ago

Some people probably believe in the mission and prefer to work for the organization. Not everyone is motivated by stock options or benefits, etc.

craigc 7y ago
And what exactly is the “mission” here? Overthrowing democratically elected governments in other countries? Assassinating foreign agents? Starting coups in other parts of the world? Running global drug trafficking operations?
- muratsu 7y ago
  Quoting from cia.gov: "Preempt threats and further US national security objectives by collecting intelligence that matters, producing objective all-source analysis, conducting effective covert action as directed by the President, and safeguarding the secrets that help keep our Nation safe." I'm trying to be as non-judgemental as possible and could see that some people might find this mission compelling.
- president 7y ago
  Just curious, if these things were necessary to protect your freedom, your children’s freedom, and the future of world order, (hypothetically) would you be opposed to your government doing those things?
  - ethanbond 7y ago
    Don't you know that all threats to individual freedom have been eradicated forevermore? Now the IC just runs around terrorizing innocent people for the fun of it. (Sarcasm, in case it isn't obvious).
  - oska 7y ago
    The only one of the four the GP listed that I could see as meeting your criteria is 'assassinating foreign agents'. And I would see the requirement to do that (to meet your criteria) as very, very rare.
- SamuelAdams 7y ago
  Preempt threats and further US national security objectives by collecting intelligence that matters, producing objective all-source analysis, conducting effective covert action as directed by the President, and safeguarding the secrets that help keep our Nation safe. https://www.cia.gov/about-cia/cia-vision-mission-values/index.html https://www.cia.gov/about-cia/cia-vision-mission-values/inde...
- salawat 7y ago
  If you have to ask, then it is probably not your cup of tea. Think of it like the guy in Firefly hunting down the Tam's. He is convinced he's doing work to create a paradise for everyone else, ostensibly in the hope said paradise will never have a need for someone like him. People who engage with the apparatus do so because at some fundamental level, they have reason to believe the work has to be done, and many take on the responsibility of doing it to spare others of the burden of having to do so. If you haven't lived or experienced something that's lit that spark, it generally means that someone else is hard at work trying to keep it that way. Some people never experience it, and most of the ones who have had that spark lit that I know tend to hope those around them never do. It changes you. Most I've talked to are non-committal as to whether the change was good or bad, but almost all felt it was their duty to step up.
mariuolo 7y ago
Yes, he probably was an idealist who grew disillusioned by what he saw. Otherwise why risk divulging state secrets?
- muratsu 7y ago
  To figure out why he did it is part of the Trial, isn't it? Maybe it's what you've just said, or maybe he did it for fame, maybe a 3rd party forced him, maybe he just had enough of it, etc..
  - harry8 7y ago
    You're assuming his guilt there. That seems like an unwarranted assumption.

domikazi 7y ago

What about the ability to create exploits with the intention of being malicious to foreign actors?

non-entity 7y ago

Actually, I looked out of curiosity once, a while back and they have some moderately interesting work available which is more than I could say for a large swath of the jobs out there. That being said, the pay was insulting for the skills desired and location (DC metro supposedly isn't cheap). I personally wouldnt work for the out of principle and probably wouldnt ever qualify (no degree, plus I have expressed views that would probably disqualify me anyway)

compuguy 7y ago

Seriously? Being a cleared engineer, especially in the Washington DC area is a pretty decent career. Demand is pretty good these days with the current move from on prem facilities to the cloud as well...

lonelappde 7y ago

Money, location, excitement for spycraft, their sense of patriotism.