14 ms·

Ex-CIA Software Engineer Goes on Trial for Vault 7 Leak

123 points by pcvarmint 7y ago

degenerate 7y ago
Full article: http://archive.fo/THoPp http://archive.fo/THoPp > Mr. Schulte wasn't charged immediately, and in conversations with authorities he denied leaking classified information. But by early April he faced a different legal peril: while searching Mr. Schulte's devices, agents found evidence of child pornography, opening up a new line of investigation. Mr. Schulte was arrested in August 2017 on federal child-pornography charges. Yeah, sure they did.
- Aaronstotle 7y ago
  Looks like it was taken down already, that was fast.
  - degenerate 7y ago
    Link still works - try again.
    - snazz 7y ago
      Maybe it’s whatever archive.to and similar sites do that Cloudflare hates? Using a 8.8.8.8 as a secondary DNS fixes it.
      - tambre 7y ago
        > Maybe it’s whatever archive.to and similar sites do that Cloudflare hates? What do you mean? archive.is blocks DNS requests from Cloudflare servers because they don't include the end user's IP range in the request using an optional DNS extension. They do answer such DNS requests coming from others.
        ThePowerOfFuet 7y ago
        Why are they blocking non-EDNS requests?
        pests 7y ago
        It's complicated but here is a response from archive.is https://mobile.twitter.com/archiveis/status/1018691421182791680 https://mobile.twitter.com/archiveis/status/1018691421182791...
  - nothrabannosir 7y ago
    Same here: > In response to a request we received from 'US Digital Millennium Copyright Act' the page is not currently available. > If you need it for research, investigation or other purposes, please, inquiry via email, or...
- LeoTinnitus 7y ago
  Actually the thing is, CP isnt clearly defined. It's what anybody ASSUMES is CP, as well as what a lawyer can convince a jury it is. So if he just had some Loli hentai, they could charge him with CP, even if it isn't CP.
  - pc86 7y ago
    Can explain what you mean by "it's what anybody assumes is CP?"
    - bitwize 7y ago
      It means if the arresting officer or prosecutor thinks you have CP, you will be charged with CP possession and perpwalked into the courtroom as a likely child molester in the eyes of the public. It will take an expensive trial to exonerate you if all you have is a Japanese erotic manga involving 100-year-old vampires who look six. But in the eyes of the public, accusation is guilt when it comes to serious sex crimes. So, good luck finding a job. But, in this case, you have to remember that the FBI is perhaps one of the world's largest possessors and distributors of CP. For purposes of law enforcement, of course. And they have a way of "discovering" CP on the hard drives of espionage suspects at risk of exposing how the national-security sausage gets made...
      - ouid 7y ago
        drawings of children are not CP unless they are of a real person. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashcroft_v._Free_Speech_Coalition https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashcroft_v._Free_Speech_Coalit...
        sillysaurusx 7y ago
        StyleGAN makes this a bit more complicated. I wonder if AI-generated CP would count as CP. It's fake, but it would look real.
        7y ago
- numpad0 7y ago
  Isn’t it wryly hilarious that lots of CP clauses in laws, terms and agreements are used like some sort of one harmless OS bundled app, that every vuln PoC take advantages of in demos, completely irrelevant to the intended benefits of the ‘app’? Like, hey, this type of content is less compatible with ads. Means sudo mark it CP. We don’t like this person have publicity here. Means hey mister CP. Everyone’s only interested in CP and it’s disgusting and we gets to decide what’s CP, so what’s CP stands for? CP means CP of course!
- zionic 7y ago
  Abusing children is evil, fullstop. That said the current laws around CP are horrifically ripe for abuse by the sate. FBI agents got a "covert search warrant", entered his house without him knowing, then magically find unencrypted CP on his drives. This is the same agency that can interview you, not record it, write up their version of your "interview" as a "form 302", then later charge you for lying to them if anything in their written version of your testimony is later shown to be false (no intent required on your part, if you said it rained last tuesday and it didn't you are guilty of lying to federal agents). No one should trust anyone with that kind of power, and you'd be naive to suggest such power has never been abused.
  - alasdair_ 7y ago
    >no intent required on your part, if you said it rained last tuesday and it didn't you are guilty of lying to federal agents) While I completely agree that "lying to a federal agent" is a charge that is open to abuse, it's worth noting that the lie needs to be material in order for a crime to have been committed.
    - zionic 7y ago
      While that's a great point and a likely defense, the play is more often than not to charge you with lying (and scare you with the max jail time threat) to then coerce you to be an informant or work with them in some other way. We essentially have state-sanctioned black mail.
      - ldiracdelta 7y ago
        The process is the punishment.
    - ALittleLight 7y ago
      If I'm allowed to write your testimony, I can be sure you'll make a material lie though.
      - 7y ago
- markus_zhang 7y ago
  I just wonder why a lot of those persecutions resulted in some findings related to child pornography...
  - gharding 7y ago
    I suspect if one looked into it, not only could all manner of young LOOKING women be described as being "children" by some interested "expert" on the feds' pay role, but I suspect that you could also be prosecuted for "child porn", i.e., young women visually certified as "children" by an "expert", that was downloaded as temp files just from browsing sketchy gaming sites or other similar inadvertent ways. It appears to be demonstrably not sane to believe ANYTHING the government says anymore, including whether actual child porn was found on anyone's devices, let alone when it is convenient that their means justify their ends. The government constantly murders people, lies, cheats, steals … why anyone would believe anything the government says without irrefutable proof anymore is beyond me, and seems to be a rather solid litmus test for sanity. Can anyone who knows even just a little about the Julian Assange case, say that they trust the government not to just simply and totally abuse power because under their smiling mask of claimed authority propaganda; lies a sick, twisted, sadistic, and purely evil demonic character.
- duxup 7y ago
  The speed a witch folks will imply there is a conspiracy at every turn on HN seems to be increasing with time.
  - shadowgovt 7y ago
    HN is passing the Eternal September threshold; this is a standard pattern with any open-subscription message board as T approaches infinity. I'm old enough to remember transitioning my interaction from /. to HN to get more professional discussion of industry topics. That was a long time ago, and there's no reason to assume most of /. hasn't followed me here by now. Edit: for those downvoting me, I'd appreciate a clarification on whether I was "off-topic," "troll," "flamebait," or something else; this is not the granularity of feedback to which I am accustom. ;)
    - duxup 7y ago
      I fear you are correct. I'm a bit bummed as HN was pretty unique / not likely to find a new one.
      - alasdair_ 7y ago
        >I'm a bit bummed as HN was pretty unique / not likely to find a new one. Slashdot, Digg and Reddit all had the same "unique" feeling for a long time. Something will replace HN eventually.
        duxup 7y ago
        I never felt like Slashdot, Dig, or Reddit expected the same amount of depth / thoughtfulness. Like when I ask a question here I'm not inundated by "I just read wikipedia and i'm here to splain it to you!" folks (I did too man .. that's not my question) and the expected depth on HN was / sometimes is fairly comprehensive. Also a lot less meme level type blogsmap nad links to folks who have blogs that actually know something. For me that was fairly unique to HN, at least as far as programming type stuff goes. Slasdhot, dig, reddit, always kinda spammy / shallow.
- mzs 7y ago
  The guy had multiple layers of plausible deniability encryption for a creepily categorized collection of CP. Investigators were able to see it when he unlocked his cellphone which held relevant stored passwords. As to why this happens more often than you might expect, it's because people that share classified info are all around bad. It's surprisingly uncommon that they are being blackmailed cause of the CP for example. Also this was very young children being abused, horrible indefensible stuff.
  - tsimionescu 7y ago
    > it's because people that share classified info are all around bad Now this statement requires some serious proof. Most of the high profile whistle-blowers have been heroes standing up against the odds to at least let everyone of us know what the state is doing. Camping people like Chelsea Manning and Edward Snowden 'all around bad' is shameful.
    - mzs 7y ago
      > Camping people like Chelsea Manning and Edward Snowden 'all around bad' is shameful. Manning OR Snowden site:tass.com OR site:rt.com OR site:sputnik.com >About 11,800 results Thank you for making my argument for me.
      - zionic 7y ago
        You haven't made much of an argument.
      - tsimionescu 7y ago
        So the fact that some propaganda sites have written articles mentioning Manning or Snowden makes them all around bad people? Trump OR Obama site:tass.com OR site:rt.com OR site:sputnik.com 259000 results. I guess they are even worse people, by your twisted logic?
        mzs 7y ago
        I just ran the first page of results for Obama site:tass.com OR site:rt.com OR site:sputnik.com through NLTK and the propaganda (your word) is both 20% less neutral and 20% more polarizing than the same for Trump (Trump result is the same as Manning OR Snowden too). So I think you missed my point.
Ancalagon 7y ago
Seems like this is a good time to ask the question: Why the heck would any (good) engineer work for the CIA? EDIT: I realize now after re-reading this comment that it could definitely come off as very abrasive. I won't alter it so everyone can see the original. Sorry if I offended anyone, I purely meant it from the standpoint of an engineer who has control of their own career (and likely desires more money/status) and understands the kind of precedent this creates and what it means for preservation of self if one were to work in the CIA.
- reroute1 7y ago
  What's the answer to 99 out of 100 questions? Money.
  - loeg 7y ago
    The money isn't compelling. It's below market and requires more hoop-jumping than most employers.
  - blackearl 7y ago
    That's why you work for a private company that works on government contracts. Working directly for gov doesn't pay
- muratsu 7y ago
  Some people probably believe in the mission and prefer to work for the organization. Not everyone is motivated by stock options or benefits, etc.
  - craigc 7y ago
    And what exactly is the “mission” here? Overthrowing democratically elected governments in other countries? Assassinating foreign agents? Starting coups in other parts of the world? Running global drug trafficking operations?
    - muratsu 7y ago
neonate 7y ago
https://archive.md/IY71v https://archive.md/IY71v
rbanffy 7y ago
I wonder if https://www.npmjs.com/package/nsaname https://www.npmjs.com/package/nsaname is updated with all the leaked names.

123 points by pcvarmint 7y ago

Full article: http://archive.fo/THoPp http://archive.fo/THoPp > Mr. Schulte wasn't charged immediately, and in conversations with authorities he denied leaking classified information. But by early April he faced a different legal peril: while searching Mr. Schulte's devices, agents found evidence of child pornography, opening up a new line of investigation. Mr. Schulte was arrested in August 2017 on federal child-pornography charges. Yeah, sure they did.

Aaronstotle 7y ago
Looks like it was taken down already, that was fast.
- degenerate 7y ago
  Link still works - try again.
  - snazz 7y ago
    Maybe it’s whatever archive.to and similar sites do that Cloudflare hates? Using a 8.8.8.8 as a secondary DNS fixes it.
    - tambre 7y ago
      > Maybe it’s whatever archive.to and similar sites do that Cloudflare hates? What do you mean? archive.is blocks DNS requests from Cloudflare servers because they don't include the end user's IP range in the request using an optional DNS extension. They do answer such DNS requests coming from others.
      - ThePowerOfFuet 7y ago
        Why are they blocking non-EDNS requests?
        pests 7y ago
        It's complicated but here is a response from archive.is https://mobile.twitter.com/archiveis/status/1018691421182791680 https://mobile.twitter.com/archiveis/status/1018691421182791...
- nothrabannosir 7y ago
  Same here: > In response to a request we received from 'US Digital Millennium Copyright Act' the page is not currently available. > If you need it for research, investigation or other purposes, please, inquiry via email, or...
LeoTinnitus 7y ago
Actually the thing is, CP isnt clearly defined. It's what anybody ASSUMES is CP, as well as what a lawyer can convince a jury it is. So if he just had some Loli hentai, they could charge him with CP, even if it isn't CP.
- pc86 7y ago
  Can explain what you mean by "it's what anybody assumes is CP?"
  - bitwize 7y ago
    It means if the arresting officer or prosecutor thinks you have CP, you will be charged with CP possession and perpwalked into the courtroom as a likely child molester in the eyes of the public. It will take an expensive trial to exonerate you if all you have is a Japanese erotic manga involving 100-year-old vampires who look six. But in the eyes of the public, accusation is guilt when it comes to serious sex crimes. So, good luck finding a job. But, in this case, you have to remember that the FBI is perhaps one of the world's largest possessors and distributors of CP. For purposes of law enforcement, of course. And they have a way of "discovering" CP on the hard drives of espionage suspects at risk of exposing how the national-security sausage gets made...
    - ouid 7y ago
      drawings of children are not CP unless they are of a real person. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashcroft_v._Free_Speech_Coalition https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashcroft_v._Free_Speech_Coalit...
      - sillysaurusx 7y ago
        StyleGAN makes this a bit more complicated. I wonder if AI-generated CP would count as CP. It's fake, but it would look real.
        7y ago
numpad0 7y ago
Isn’t it wryly hilarious that lots of CP clauses in laws, terms and agreements are used like some sort of one harmless OS bundled app, that every vuln PoC take advantages of in demos, completely irrelevant to the intended benefits of the ‘app’? Like, hey, this type of content is less compatible with ads. Means sudo mark it CP. We don’t like this person have publicity here. Means hey mister CP. Everyone’s only interested in CP and it’s disgusting and we gets to decide what’s CP, so what’s CP stands for? CP means CP of course!
zionic 7y ago
Abusing children is evil, fullstop. That said the current laws around CP are horrifically ripe for abuse by the sate. FBI agents got a "covert search warrant", entered his house without him knowing, then magically find unencrypted CP on his drives. This is the same agency that can interview you, not record it, write up their version of your "interview" as a "form 302", then later charge you for lying to them if anything in their written version of your testimony is later shown to be false (no intent required on your part, if you said it rained last tuesday and it didn't you are guilty of lying to federal agents). No one should trust anyone with that kind of power, and you'd be naive to suggest such power has never been abused.
- alasdair_ 7y ago
  >no intent required on your part, if you said it rained last tuesday and it didn't you are guilty of lying to federal agents) While I completely agree that "lying to a federal agent" is a charge that is open to abuse, it's worth noting that the lie needs to be material in order for a crime to have been committed.
  - zionic 7y ago
    While that's a great point and a likely defense, the play is more often than not to charge you with lying (and scare you with the max jail time threat) to then coerce you to be an informant or work with them in some other way. We essentially have state-sanctioned black mail.
    - ldiracdelta 7y ago
      The process is the punishment.
  - ALittleLight 7y ago
    If I'm allowed to write your testimony, I can be sure you'll make a material lie though.
    - 7y ago
markus_zhang 7y ago
I just wonder why a lot of those persecutions resulted in some findings related to child pornography...
- gharding 7y ago
  I suspect if one looked into it, not only could all manner of young LOOKING women be described as being "children" by some interested "expert" on the feds' pay role, but I suspect that you could also be prosecuted for "child porn", i.e., young women visually certified as "children" by an "expert", that was downloaded as temp files just from browsing sketchy gaming sites or other similar inadvertent ways. It appears to be demonstrably not sane to believe ANYTHING the government says anymore, including whether actual child porn was found on anyone's devices, let alone when it is convenient that their means justify their ends. The government constantly murders people, lies, cheats, steals … why anyone would believe anything the government says without irrefutable proof anymore is beyond me, and seems to be a rather solid litmus test for sanity. Can anyone who knows even just a little about the Julian Assange case, say that they trust the government not to just simply and totally abuse power because under their smiling mask of claimed authority propaganda; lies a sick, twisted, sadistic, and purely evil demonic character.
duxup 7y ago
The speed a witch folks will imply there is a conspiracy at every turn on HN seems to be increasing with time.
- shadowgovt 7y ago
  HN is passing the Eternal September threshold; this is a standard pattern with any open-subscription message board as T approaches infinity. I'm old enough to remember transitioning my interaction from /. to HN to get more professional discussion of industry topics. That was a long time ago, and there's no reason to assume most of /. hasn't followed me here by now. Edit: for those downvoting me, I'd appreciate a clarification on whether I was "off-topic," "troll," "flamebait," or something else; this is not the granularity of feedback to which I am accustom. ;)
  - duxup 7y ago
    I fear you are correct. I'm a bit bummed as HN was pretty unique / not likely to find a new one.
    - alasdair_ 7y ago
      >I'm a bit bummed as HN was pretty unique / not likely to find a new one. Slashdot, Digg and Reddit all had the same "unique" feeling for a long time. Something will replace HN eventually.
      - duxup 7y ago
        I never felt like Slashdot, Dig, or Reddit expected the same amount of depth / thoughtfulness. Like when I ask a question here I'm not inundated by "I just read wikipedia and i'm here to splain it to you!" folks (I did too man .. that's not my question) and the expected depth on HN was / sometimes is fairly comprehensive. Also a lot less meme level type blogsmap nad links to folks who have blogs that actually know something. For me that was fairly unique to HN, at least as far as programming type stuff goes. Slasdhot, dig, reddit, always kinda spammy / shallow.
mzs 7y ago
The guy had multiple layers of plausible deniability encryption for a creepily categorized collection of CP. Investigators were able to see it when he unlocked his cellphone which held relevant stored passwords. As to why this happens more often than you might expect, it's because people that share classified info are all around bad. It's surprisingly uncommon that they are being blackmailed cause of the CP for example. Also this was very young children being abused, horrible indefensible stuff.
- tsimionescu 7y ago
  > it's because people that share classified info are all around bad Now this statement requires some serious proof. Most of the high profile whistle-blowers have been heroes standing up against the odds to at least let everyone of us know what the state is doing. Camping people like Chelsea Manning and Edward Snowden 'all around bad' is shameful.
  - mzs 7y ago
    > Camping people like Chelsea Manning and Edward Snowden 'all around bad' is shameful. Manning OR Snowden site:tass.com OR site:rt.com OR site:sputnik.com >About 11,800 results Thank you for making my argument for me.
    - zionic 7y ago
      You haven't made much of an argument.
    - tsimionescu 7y ago
      So the fact that some propaganda sites have written articles mentioning Manning or Snowden makes them all around bad people? Trump OR Obama site:tass.com OR site:rt.com OR site:sputnik.com 259000 results. I guess they are even worse people, by your twisted logic?
      - mzs 7y ago
        I just ran the first page of results for Obama site:tass.com OR site:rt.com OR site:sputnik.com through NLTK and the propaganda (your word) is both 20% less neutral and 20% more polarizing than the same for Trump (Trump result is the same as Manning OR Snowden too). So I think you missed my point.

Ancalagon 7y ago

Seems like this is a good time to ask the question: Why the heck would any (good) engineer work for the CIA? EDIT: I realize now after re-reading this comment that it could definitely come off as very abrasive. I won't alter it so everyone can see the original. Sorry if I offended anyone, I purely meant it from the standpoint of an engineer who has control of their own career (and likely desires more money/status) and understands the kind of precedent this creates and what it means for preservation of self if one were to work in the CIA.

reroute1 7y ago
What's the answer to 99 out of 100 questions? Money.
- loeg 7y ago
  The money isn't compelling. It's below market and requires more hoop-jumping than most employers.
- blackearl 7y ago
  That's why you work for a private company that works on government contracts. Working directly for gov doesn't pay
muratsu 7y ago
Some people probably believe in the mission and prefer to work for the organization. Not everyone is motivated by stock options or benefits, etc.
- craigc 7y ago
  And what exactly is the “mission” here? Overthrowing democratically elected governments in other countries? Assassinating foreign agents? Starting coups in other parts of the world? Running global drug trafficking operations?
  - muratsu 7y ago

neonate 7y ago

https://archive.md/IY71v https://archive.md/IY71v

rbanffy 7y ago

I wonder if https://www.npmjs.com/package/nsaname https://www.npmjs.com/package/nsaname is updated with all the leaked names.