8 ms·

Ah yes, tromé (verlan for métro), ouais, and putain: the three French words I sprinkle in with my broken French the most to make it seem like I speak the langua

Ah yes, tromé (verlan for métro), ouais, and putain: the three French words I sprinkle in with my broken French the most to make it seem like I speak the language better than I actually do

mytailorisrich 7y ago
It should be noted, perhaps as a warning, that sprinkling those words makes you sound like you're from the worst neighbourhood in town.
- devilsbabe 7y ago
  That's like saying that using "yeah" and "fuck" make you sound like you come from a bad neighborhood. Totally untrue
  - mytailorisrich 7y ago
    Verlan slang is associated with lower classes and rough neighbourhoods. If you use it in your everyday speech along with "ouais" and "putain" every other sentence (which some people do), it does not do you any favour. Replying to a question with "ouais" is rude in French if you're not chatting with your friends.
    - jackjeff 7y ago
      I think "Verlan" is kind of old fashioned. It was a lot cooler when the boomers were young IMHO. Some Verlan words are still in common use in the "banlieues" (i.e. rough neighborhoods), like saying "muff" instead of "femme", "tromé" instead of "métro", "chelou" instead of "louche", etc... But there are many other slang words in use. A lot of borrowings from English ("cash") or Arabic ("flouz" meaning "money") are used too. It's probably hard for an English speaking tourist to hang out in these areas. But if you want to get a "feel" for it, I would recommend watch "Spiral" which are some stereotypical "banlieues" scenes. But I suppose it's better than nothing... or going to the "four" to buy drugs. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiral_(TV_series) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiral_(TV_series)
      - mytailorisrich 7y ago
        Verlan isn't old fashioned. It is in widespread use as you mention.
      - Bayart 7y ago
        >A lot of borrowings from English ("cash") or Arabic ("flouz" meaning "money") are used too. Flouze isn't a recent borrowing. It came when Algeria was still French, probably through the Army. Like toubib, caoua, chouïa etc. It's not immigrant-specific. There are new borrowings from Arabic, and they're usually very noticeable and have strong social implications. Similar to the Spanish used by Latino-Americans in everyday English.
    - leppr 7y ago
      That's an exageration. Other than in an uptight office setting or by the employees in a refined establishment, these words (especially "ouais") are considered familiar but not rude to your interlocutor. "tromé" might be a bit too young-sounding for general use, but nothing to do with politeness or social class. The well-off Parisian youth love to use these words.
      - mytailorisrich 7y ago
        It is certainly isn't an exaggeration. Being familiar to people you do not know is rude: You do not address a stranger with 'tu' but with 'vous', for example. But 'ouais' is not just familiar, as is in "perfectly fine with people you know", it is lacking manners. Generations of French mothers, teachers, etc. have spent a lot of time scolding children who answered them using "ouais" instead of "oui", as another commenter mentioned. In general it is fine between friends or colleagues, though. 'Putain' is very rude outside of very familiar banter among friends and colleagues. 'tromé', and verlan in general, is quite low social class. If people here on HN want to learn French then it is obviously useful to know these words but they should not use them. You never get into trouble for speaking properly...
        leppr 7y ago
        I understand what you're saying, its absence denotes a level of speech that is advised in certain spheres, but describing it as "rude" would be confusing to a non-native. A stranger wouldn't just accidentally drop-in the French "haute-bourgeoisie". Anywhere else, it is acceptable, don't get offended if someone says those words to you. I have literally heard it used in business meetings with the executives of top funds and companies.
        mytailorisrich 7y ago
        It is not acceptable unless you know it is. Saying that using these word is perfectly acceptable is what can only confuse non-native speakers because they then might use them when they shouldn't and then don't understand why they are getting funny looks. Language in business can be quite spicy but you don't use that language to address your local baker if you have the most basic manners (granted, many people don't).
    - devilsbabe 7y ago
      It's rude in the same context that "yeah" is rude. So ok, there are times when it's more appropriate to answer with "yes", but there are many situations outside of chatting with my friends where I would be comfortable saying "ouais". Also, verlan is used all the time by everyone under the age of 30. Not all of it; some terms are rarer than others and are, as you say, associated with rough neighborhoods. But it's an extremely common way of speaking.
    - throwaway41968 7y ago
      Lol idk what your experience is but mine is that verlan has basically permeated all casual conversations among everyone under 40. I guess you'd look a bit odd if you hung around the kind of people who take pride in not using any of that language but in practice virtually everyone uses verlan in one way or another. Also, using slang isn't as frowned upon as it can be in America. Again, idk your experience but mine is that people swear left and right in casual conversation without anyone giving them a side glance. Of course in formal contexts such as addressing strangers in the street or greeting your baker you don't want ot, but the moment familiarity sets in you can be sure swearwords are going to pop all the time.
- arcturus17 7y ago
  Nah not really, I’m not native French but went to a French Lycée, and from my experience, everyone and their mother, from the banlieue to the best neighborhood in Paris, says putain and ouais in an informal setting.
  - mytailorisrich 7y ago
    If your experience is that "everyone and their mother" says "putain" I am afraid that French people will conclude that you did not stay in the best area, to say the least. That being said, 'putain' is also used a lot in some southern areas of the country. But you should not conclude that you can safely say it as you please all over the country without people thinking less of you. I can assure you that in the "best neighbourhood in Paris" you will get funny looks if you sprinkle your language with 'putain' and reply to questions using "ouais".
    - tonfa 7y ago
      Imo the key word is informal settings, I think most people would use those but higher class people were taught when not to use them.
      - user5994461 7y ago
        Ouai is slang for oui (yes). It's not classy but it's nowhere near as bad as the other words discussed here. It's like "yeah" instead of "yes" really. Using meuf/rebeu/trome (woman, arab, tube) is similar to using hoe and nigga in English. Better not do that even in an informal setting. If you talk like that near people, let's say in a bar or in the tube or on your phone walking, people nearby will avoid you. If you add "putain" every few sentences, you will be universally approached as a violent degenerate.
        potatoz2 7y ago
        Meuf is absolutely not close to hoe (or even less nigga). Meuf is very common and just colloquial among the younger generation. Maybe the closest would be "dude" or maybe "fam": not insulting in the least but something you wouldn't use in professional settings or with your parents.
yesbabyyes 7y ago
As a kid, I spent a couple of weeks living with a French family as an exchange with my French class. Prior to arriving to the (lovely) home in a south of France village I had spent some time in Paris, and picked up "ouais", mostly subconsciously, but boy, did I feel French and in the know. It took all of five minutes for the mother of the family to take that bad habit out of me.
- alexis_fr 7y ago
  I love that, in pure French tradition, we went as far as designing a circumvoluted spelling for this word, with a « s » at the end. Proof that we have an intuitive reflex about where to put the S, even when there is no grammar rule for new words.
- ramshorns 7y ago
  Why is it a bad habit? I thought "ouais" was just like "yeah". Is it an urban/rural dialect difference?
  - lazyasciiart 7y ago
    I knew adults who didn't like children saying "yeah", I think they said it sounded lazy/disrespectful? So maybe the same thing.
  - yesbabyyes 7y ago
    I'm not familiar enough to say, but I guessed it's similar to what some other posters in the parent thread are saying: it's lazy and rude. This was also a family on the southern French almost-but-not-quite country side, and the son I was exchanging with had never even been to Paris, so it might be a metropolitan/country divide, as well. I grew up in the Swedish countryside, and we use a slightly different vocabulary from Stockholm, even though it's not far outside. Some words sounding more dated, less or different slang, less or different curse words. And again, I was there to learn proper French, and I guess Mme Picq wanted to make sure the French I learned was indeed proper. It made me happy to be corrected, and also her cooking made me very happy!
johnchristopher 7y ago
> ouais, and putain: the three French words I sprinkle in with my broken French the most to make it seem like I speak the language better than I actually do Mandatory: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KunHko803g4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KunHko803g4
- rakoo 7y ago
  I would have thought about this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSeaDQ6sPs0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSeaDQ6sPs0
  - benhurmarcel 7y ago
    C'est pas faux
- arkh 7y ago
  Voilà donc de quoi s'inspirait The Wire: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lElf7D-An8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lElf7D-An8
  - johnchristopher 7y ago
    Oh, I think it's more than inspiration. The Wire producers are obviously guilty of plagiarism https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQ4pldh_pOA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQ4pldh_pOA (nsfw).
touisteur 7y ago
Ha ! My Polish wife speaks a very good French with almost no accent. Learned French in school over 6 years and was very good. When she came in France, couldn't understand a word anyone was saying. All the 'chelou', 'zarb', 'relou', 'dégueulasse', 'meuf', 'flics', ... It felt like learning a whole new dirty lexicon. But since everyone uses it more or less...
- rakoo 7y ago
  That's the problem with French: everything you learn in school or listening to the news anchors will be something different from what you actually use in everyday life. So you have to re-learn it
  - touisteur 7y ago
    I thought it was only French that was like this. But the English I learned in school wasn't anymore representative of the British-English (try watching 'Skins' or The Office or Extras) or Australian English (took me some time...). And then even in the US. After years of watching American shows without subtitles, first time I read 'to kill a mockingbird' or 'catcher in the rye' was a shock. So much vocabulary I didn't know... And it was only high-school level English!
  - cowboysauce 7y ago
    That's not unique to French, nearly every language has some pretty large differences between the colloquial language and the more formal language. Arabic is particularly difficult is this regard because modern standard arabic serves as the official language, but everyday speech is done in the individual dialects. But the differences between the dialects and MSA are pretty large, to the extent that a lot of linguistics think that "arabic" should really be considered as a family of closely related languages. So the situation is akin to the governments and media of France, Spain and Italy working in Latin while people in those countries continue to speak their respective languages.
gherkinnn 7y ago
Bonus points for using extra long vowels where thinking pauses go. To me that’s as French as it gets. Je pense que [ouaaaaaahhheeee] ... +10 French

Ah yes, tromé (verlan for métro), ouais, and putain: the three French words I sprinkle in with my broken French the most to make it seem like I speak the language better than I actually do

mytailorisrich 7y ago

It should be noted, perhaps as a warning, that sprinkling those words makes you sound like you're from the worst neighbourhood in town.

devilsbabe 7y ago
That's like saying that using "yeah" and "fuck" make you sound like you come from a bad neighborhood. Totally untrue
- mytailorisrich 7y ago
  Verlan slang is associated with lower classes and rough neighbourhoods. If you use it in your everyday speech along with "ouais" and "putain" every other sentence (which some people do), it does not do you any favour. Replying to a question with "ouais" is rude in French if you're not chatting with your friends.
  - jackjeff 7y ago
    I think "Verlan" is kind of old fashioned. It was a lot cooler when the boomers were young IMHO. Some Verlan words are still in common use in the "banlieues" (i.e. rough neighborhoods), like saying "muff" instead of "femme", "tromé" instead of "métro", "chelou" instead of "louche", etc... But there are many other slang words in use. A lot of borrowings from English ("cash") or Arabic ("flouz" meaning "money") are used too. It's probably hard for an English speaking tourist to hang out in these areas. But if you want to get a "feel" for it, I would recommend watch "Spiral" which are some stereotypical "banlieues" scenes. But I suppose it's better than nothing... or going to the "four" to buy drugs. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiral_(TV_series) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiral_(TV_series)
    - mytailorisrich 7y ago
      Verlan isn't old fashioned. It is in widespread use as you mention.
    - Bayart 7y ago
      >A lot of borrowings from English ("cash") or Arabic ("flouz" meaning "money") are used too. Flouze isn't a recent borrowing. It came when Algeria was still French, probably through the Army. Like toubib, caoua, chouïa etc. It's not immigrant-specific. There are new borrowings from Arabic, and they're usually very noticeable and have strong social implications. Similar to the Spanish used by Latino-Americans in everyday English.
  - leppr 7y ago
    That's an exageration. Other than in an uptight office setting or by the employees in a refined establishment, these words (especially "ouais") are considered familiar but not rude to your interlocutor. "tromé" might be a bit too young-sounding for general use, but nothing to do with politeness or social class. The well-off Parisian youth love to use these words.
    - mytailorisrich 7y ago
      It is certainly isn't an exaggeration. Being familiar to people you do not know is rude: You do not address a stranger with 'tu' but with 'vous', for example. But 'ouais' is not just familiar, as is in "perfectly fine with people you know", it is lacking manners. Generations of French mothers, teachers, etc. have spent a lot of time scolding children who answered them using "ouais" instead of "oui", as another commenter mentioned. In general it is fine between friends or colleagues, though. 'Putain' is very rude outside of very familiar banter among friends and colleagues. 'tromé', and verlan in general, is quite low social class. If people here on HN want to learn French then it is obviously useful to know these words but they should not use them. You never get into trouble for speaking properly...
      - leppr 7y ago
        I understand what you're saying, its absence denotes a level of speech that is advised in certain spheres, but describing it as "rude" would be confusing to a non-native. A stranger wouldn't just accidentally drop-in the French "haute-bourgeoisie". Anywhere else, it is acceptable, don't get offended if someone says those words to you. I have literally heard it used in business meetings with the executives of top funds and companies.
        mytailorisrich 7y ago
        It is not acceptable unless you know it is. Saying that using these word is perfectly acceptable is what can only confuse non-native speakers because they then might use them when they shouldn't and then don't understand why they are getting funny looks. Language in business can be quite spicy but you don't use that language to address your local baker if you have the most basic manners (granted, many people don't).
  - devilsbabe 7y ago
    It's rude in the same context that "yeah" is rude. So ok, there are times when it's more appropriate to answer with "yes", but there are many situations outside of chatting with my friends where I would be comfortable saying "ouais". Also, verlan is used all the time by everyone under the age of 30. Not all of it; some terms are rarer than others and are, as you say, associated with rough neighborhoods. But it's an extremely common way of speaking.
  - throwaway41968 7y ago
    Lol idk what your experience is but mine is that verlan has basically permeated all casual conversations among everyone under 40. I guess you'd look a bit odd if you hung around the kind of people who take pride in not using any of that language but in practice virtually everyone uses verlan in one way or another. Also, using slang isn't as frowned upon as it can be in America. Again, idk your experience but mine is that people swear left and right in casual conversation without anyone giving them a side glance. Of course in formal contexts such as addressing strangers in the street or greeting your baker you don't want ot, but the moment familiarity sets in you can be sure swearwords are going to pop all the time.
arcturus17 7y ago
Nah not really, I’m not native French but went to a French Lycée, and from my experience, everyone and their mother, from the banlieue to the best neighborhood in Paris, says putain and ouais in an informal setting.
- mytailorisrich 7y ago
  If your experience is that "everyone and their mother" says "putain" I am afraid that French people will conclude that you did not stay in the best area, to say the least. That being said, 'putain' is also used a lot in some southern areas of the country. But you should not conclude that you can safely say it as you please all over the country without people thinking less of you. I can assure you that in the "best neighbourhood in Paris" you will get funny looks if you sprinkle your language with 'putain' and reply to questions using "ouais".
  - tonfa 7y ago
    Imo the key word is informal settings, I think most people would use those but higher class people were taught when not to use them.
    - user5994461 7y ago
      Ouai is slang for oui (yes). It's not classy but it's nowhere near as bad as the other words discussed here. It's like "yeah" instead of "yes" really. Using meuf/rebeu/trome (woman, arab, tube) is similar to using hoe and nigga in English. Better not do that even in an informal setting. If you talk like that near people, let's say in a bar or in the tube or on your phone walking, people nearby will avoid you. If you add "putain" every few sentences, you will be universally approached as a violent degenerate.
      - potatoz2 7y ago
        Meuf is absolutely not close to hoe (or even less nigga). Meuf is very common and just colloquial among the younger generation. Maybe the closest would be "dude" or maybe "fam": not insulting in the least but something you wouldn't use in professional settings or with your parents.

yesbabyyes 7y ago

As a kid, I spent a couple of weeks living with a French family as an exchange with my French class. Prior to arriving to the (lovely) home in a south of France village I had spent some time in Paris, and picked up "ouais", mostly subconsciously, but boy, did I feel French and in the know. It took all of five minutes for the mother of the family to take that bad habit out of me.

alexis_fr 7y ago
I love that, in pure French tradition, we went as far as designing a circumvoluted spelling for this word, with a « s » at the end. Proof that we have an intuitive reflex about where to put the S, even when there is no grammar rule for new words.
ramshorns 7y ago
Why is it a bad habit? I thought "ouais" was just like "yeah". Is it an urban/rural dialect difference?
- lazyasciiart 7y ago
  I knew adults who didn't like children saying "yeah", I think they said it sounded lazy/disrespectful? So maybe the same thing.
- yesbabyyes 7y ago
  I'm not familiar enough to say, but I guessed it's similar to what some other posters in the parent thread are saying: it's lazy and rude. This was also a family on the southern French almost-but-not-quite country side, and the son I was exchanging with had never even been to Paris, so it might be a metropolitan/country divide, as well. I grew up in the Swedish countryside, and we use a slightly different vocabulary from Stockholm, even though it's not far outside. Some words sounding more dated, less or different slang, less or different curse words. And again, I was there to learn proper French, and I guess Mme Picq wanted to make sure the French I learned was indeed proper. It made me happy to be corrected, and also her cooking made me very happy!

johnchristopher 7y ago

> ouais, and putain: the three French words I sprinkle in with my broken French the most to make it seem like I speak the language better than I actually do Mandatory: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KunHko803g4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KunHko803g4

rakoo 7y ago
I would have thought about this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSeaDQ6sPs0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSeaDQ6sPs0
- benhurmarcel 7y ago
  C'est pas faux
arkh 7y ago
Voilà donc de quoi s'inspirait The Wire: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lElf7D-An8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lElf7D-An8
- johnchristopher 7y ago
  Oh, I think it's more than inspiration. The Wire producers are obviously guilty of plagiarism https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQ4pldh_pOA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQ4pldh_pOA (nsfw).

touisteur 7y ago

Ha ! My Polish wife speaks a very good French with almost no accent. Learned French in school over 6 years and was very good. When she came in France, couldn't understand a word anyone was saying. All the 'chelou', 'zarb', 'relou', 'dégueulasse', 'meuf', 'flics', ... It felt like learning a whole new dirty lexicon. But since everyone uses it more or less...

rakoo 7y ago
That's the problem with French: everything you learn in school or listening to the news anchors will be something different from what you actually use in everyday life. So you have to re-learn it
- touisteur 7y ago
  I thought it was only French that was like this. But the English I learned in school wasn't anymore representative of the British-English (try watching 'Skins' or The Office or Extras) or Australian English (took me some time...). And then even in the US. After years of watching American shows without subtitles, first time I read 'to kill a mockingbird' or 'catcher in the rye' was a shock. So much vocabulary I didn't know... And it was only high-school level English!
- cowboysauce 7y ago
  That's not unique to French, nearly every language has some pretty large differences between the colloquial language and the more formal language. Arabic is particularly difficult is this regard because modern standard arabic serves as the official language, but everyday speech is done in the individual dialects. But the differences between the dialects and MSA are pretty large, to the extent that a lot of linguistics think that "arabic" should really be considered as a family of closely related languages. So the situation is akin to the governments and media of France, Spain and Italy working in Latin while people in those countries continue to speak their respective languages.

gherkinnn 7y ago

Bonus points for using extra long vowels where thinking pauses go. To me that’s as French as it gets. Je pense que [ouaaaaaahhheeee] ... +10 French