10 ms·

ThinkPad Mods, Done Right

217 points by lelf 7y ago

jaxn 7y ago
Would this have any real performance benefit over a traditional SSD?
- 2fast4you 7y ago
  Size, and I’m assuming speed but I don’t know anything about the express card interface so it might be slow. Also if you just want to cram more drive in your laptop
  - VibrantClarity 7y ago
    It's just a single PCIe 2.0 lane. Pretty much the same bandwidth as SATA3
  - arm 7y ago
    Mentioned on the linked Indiegogo page¹: “What's the speed limit? The ExpressCard slot is limited to a single PCI-E 2.0 lane. This means the real-world speed bottleneck is 500MB/s, which is roughly the speed of SATA 6Gb/s (SATA 3). Pre-Sandy Bridge models (T410/X201 and older) are limited to PCI-E 1.1, which is roughly 250MB/s.” ―――――― ¹ — https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/thinkmods-expresscard-nvme-adapter/ https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/thinkmods-expresscard-nvm...
- numpad0 7y ago
  NVMe is somehow better in random access performance. Also ThinkPads before X240 has no space to accommodate M.2/NVMe as those machines predates the standard. Personally I wish(ed) if there were 2.5” shaped GPU than SSD though
  - jsilence 7y ago
    A decent GPU in this format would be awesome! Especially since the X220 series can accomodate a 2.5' SSD as well as an m.2 SATA SSD already.
    - ekianjo 7y ago
      You can already connect external GPUs thru this interface on the X220.
      - numpad0 7y ago
        You can but not on your lap
        ekianjo 7y ago
        I doubt any time soon you will be able to fit a GPU (and power it!) thru a express card slot...
    - jsjohnst 7y ago
      > A decent GPU in this format would be awesome! Good luck with finding a decent GPU that small, let alone with power and thermal profile to support being in an expresscard slot.
  - jchw 7y ago
    I don’t really know for sure but my intuition is NVMe can win in random access and latency because it has much larger command queues and typically multiple queues (so each CPU thread can have its own queue.)
    - rasz 7y ago
      does this (T410) look in any way worth it ? https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1adoQGVXXXXaxXFXXq6xXFXXX4/200611227/HTB1adoQGVXXXXaxXFXXq6xXFXXX4.jpg https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1adoQGVXXXXaxXFXXq6xXFXXX4/200...
yjftsjthsd-h 7y ago
That's a slightly odd name for a store with only one product. Hope to see more in the future:)
- VvR-Ox 7y ago
  I agree! It would be awesome to see more stuff like: - BIOS with core/libreboot[0] - mainboard replacement (e.g. to support USB 3) [1] - better screens [2] - something to deal with that awful touchpad There is already people out there doing it and clearly TP's are some of the most used laptops on this planet for a reason so there is a market. [0]: https://libreboot.org/docs/hardware/x200.html https://libreboot.org/docs/hardware/x200.html [1]: http://panacek.net/post/frankenpad_x225/ http://panacek.net/post/frankenpad_x225/ [2]: https://hackaday.com/2019/02/21/hack-a-thinkpad-display/ https://hackaday.com/2019/02/21/hack-a-thinkpad-display/
  - K0SM0S 7y ago
    Don't get me wrong, I really want all those things. So much so that I actually spent a hefty sum on my current TP (X1 Yoga '3rd', 2018) to get all those things 'guaranteed' now and option for later (I'm not much of a hardware tinkerer, but I could already see 2028 and me tweaking it up). That being said, I think it's still a small market. All of TPs I mean, new, used & yet to come (I've got a solid theory that ThinkPads may outlast the heat death of the universe, paper coming soon(tm) ). Seriously, the reason is that the used market is precisely interesting because it's cheap (it's almost a commodity market at that point) whereas the new market is becoming niche like all laptops, like desktops before — think that, for all their glory, GPUs only sell in the single-digit millions to consumers per year — no wonder the juice for these lies in enterprise. So I think you've got room for maybe a few small businesses, small custom shops of a single to few employees, shipping worldwide of course (and I'm not a logistics expert but this is the kind of space where ideally you really want to 'shopify' directly from factory to customer because each cent will be hard fought for). Most of what people use to tweak TPs is already cheap as hell on Aliexpress or eq. I wish it weren't so. Please tell me I''m wrong about this.
    - 7y ago
Evidlo 7y ago
Semi related, but has anyone used the T420's ExpressCard port for USB3 expansion? I bought a USB3 card [0], but the write speed is only barely faster than USB2 for flash media. (interestingly, the write speed is much faster when uploading an image to my FPGA dev board) [0] https://www.amazon.com/ExpressCard-34mm-Adapter-Dual-Port/dp/B0045BLP1S https://www.amazon.com/ExpressCard-34mm-Adapter-Dual-Port/dp...
- plapetomain 7y ago
  By flash media do you mean memory cards or SSDs? Because that will be a big difference. The issue might not be the pcie USB adapter, and may be whatever it’s connected to. A cheap usb mass storage chip is not going to perform as well as a uas capable chip.
- 1996 7y ago
  I did, it runs way too warm. I am a bit afraid this mod will have the same problem. Instead of plastic, it would be better to use a material that can conduct heat.
  - yttriumtyclief 7y ago
    The reason that those USB adapters get hot is because they have to actively convert 3.3V to 5V. That's an inefficient process and it's what causes excess heat. My mod doesn't have that problem, so the only heat generated will be from the drives themselves, which don't put out much.
ohazi 7y ago
It would be nice to know what material/process is used to make the plastic(?) enclosure. Given that the funding goal is $1400 / $1600, I'm assuming it's 3d printed rather than injection molded, but maybe they were able to get a standard part? Otherwise, this appears to be a (rare) good example of a well-planned crowdfunding campaign. The actual design is either completely or almost completely de-risked via one or more prototypes. Both the funding goal and anticipated timeline appear reasonable, and make it clear that the funds are being used for production rather than for development. Number of reward items in each category is capped so that sudden unexpected popularity doesn't doom the project.
- culturestate 7y ago
  I don't think it's a commercial part - if you look closely at the photo of the first prototype, the left side of the sled shows some distinct lines that look like FDM layers. It also seems like the maker is producing these in small batches in his home lab, so 3D printing makes sense. That said, the CAD model of v2 seems to show some kind of ejector or retention mechanism (in green, again on the left) which could be tricky to print reliably.
  - JorgeGT 7y ago
    A lot of people are integrating FDM or other AM techniques into their production, so it doesn't meant it will be home-produced. You can order small batches from Stratasys, 3D Systems or any of the other big manufacturers and you get reliable parts with good tolerances and post-treatment etc., without committing to with injection molding.
    - culturestate 7y ago
      That's true! I think next-gen manufacturing is actually one of the most interesting areas of research going right now. In this case, though, I meant commercial part more like "generic component that you could buy from fifty random aliexpress suppliers" rather than simply "part produced commercially."
zwayhowder 7y ago
Given it's limited to SATA3 speeds, why not just replace the internal hdd with a SATA3 SSD? My X260 is very happy with a 2tb Samsung drive. I suppose this would be lighter, but we are talking about 50g of extra weight for a 2.5" SSD. Some of the future mods though look very cool. I particularly would like the Unifying Mod & WHQD mods.
- jchw 7y ago
  Is it actually limited to Sata 3 speeds? Assuming ExpressCard can at least get you a PCI Express 2.0 lane I’d expect it to be at least a couple hundred MB/s faster at least theoretically. Also I assume NVMe’s long command queue really benefits SSD performance for random access, so I suspect it may even be worth it just for the interface...
  - bluedino 7y ago
    The PCIe 2.0 standard doubles the transfer rate compared with PCIe 1.0 to 5 GT/s and the per-lane throughput rises from 250 MB/s to 500 MB/s. So it's actually less than SATA 3 speeds (600MB/s)
- bnt 7y ago
  Wouldn’t you get some (minor?) battery life improvements from swapping out the spinning 2.5” with an SSD?
- LeifCarrotson 7y ago
  It's not SATA, it's NVMe. And vintage ThinkPad enthusiasts are not typically concerned about weight unless they're going for "more is better".
  - rasz 7y ago
    its pcie 2.0, slower than sata3
    - LeifCarrotson 7y ago
huxflux 7y ago
God I love my ThinkPads! going to order two tonight.
IntelMiner 7y ago
Does that "51nb" Chinese company still make modded Thinkpads? I bought their "51nb X62" model Thinkpad a few years back from an eBay user, though unfortunately it eventually died. It was a motherboard replacement of the old Thinkpad X60 from many years ago. Replacing the old single core CPU with an Intel Broadwell era i5 and up to 32 gigs of memory You could also install an M.2 SSD in it I believe. Along with USB 3 and other useful new features
- robbseaton 7y ago
  http://www.cnmod.cn/ http://www.cnmod.cn/
- smorrow 7y ago
  Someone affiliated with 51nb just hacked the T480 embedded firmware to make proper use of the T25 keyboard. https://www.reddit.com/r/thinkpad/comments/ewtm36/perfect_t480_modification_with_thinkpad_25th_7row/ https://www.reddit.com/r/thinkpad/comments/ewtm36/perfect_t4...
wilhil 7y ago
Is there really a market for modding a 7+ year old laptop? I know thinkpads used to be great (And some still are), but, I just don't get the point in trying to give more life to something so so old - most likely ~3rd-4th gen intel.
- juped 7y ago
  If it's a ThinkPad? Absolutely. Many people are drowning in outdated ThinkPads, because you can ebay them for often sub-$100 prices.
- boomlinde 7y ago
  Apparently there was enough market interest to reach the funding goal in 24 hours. As a 7 year old Thinkpad user: 4th generation Core is absolutely fine for me. I can get a refurbished and kitted out replacement for some 200 euros. I could upgrade the RAM from 8G to 16G, but in my daily use I've seen no concrete reason to do so yet. SSD is great, though. Maybe I spend a few more minutes compiling software on this machine than I would on a more recent laptop, but I'm not losing sleep over it. I can see why you'd want something more out of, say, a gaming PC or something you use for resource intensive analysis applications, machine learning etc. but getting a laptop for that seems like a waste of money to me, compared to getting a desktop computer that you can upgrade incrementally. I'm interested, though. What is it that people do where you feel that your laptop needs to be more powerful than this?
- jankotek 7y ago
  There is viable market (it has customers). But I would say it is just nostalgia. Some people even say it is not real ThinkPad unless it was made by IBM (pre 2006).
  - wpietri 7y ago
    For me it's definitely not just nostalgia. I type this on my X220t, which was released in 2011; it hangs around my house as the general-browsing-and-social-media machine. I love the keyboard and trackpoint, and older Thinkpads are rugged in a way that new models have apparently given up on. I bought the Thinkpad 25, which was basically a 2017 mid-range laptop with the old keyboard. It's adequate, but flimsier and less reliable.
dabmancer 7y ago
Why did people buy these? I just have a 2.5" SSD in mine and RAM has always been the bottleneck. A cool project from a technical perspective IMO.
- 1996 7y ago
  Because some of us enjoy having software raid setups in a laptop! This will allow raid10 setup with 3 drives for best read performance, e.g. "--level=10 --layout=f3" You can also do the o3 if you want best write performance
deltron3030 7y ago
Are all Thinkpads with ExpressCard/54 supported? http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/ExpressCard_slot http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/ExpressCard_slot I have an old X200 laying around and I was thinking of reactivating it, but it's from 2008..
- hddherman 7y ago
  According to this Reddit thread, it should be: https://www.reddit.com/r/thinkpad/comments/evtje2/its_finally_here_the_launch_of_thinkmods/ffxvxaw/ https://www.reddit.com/r/thinkpad/comments/evtje2/its_finall...
ngcc_hk 7y ago
Can you run linux on it? Just want a dual boot win/linux portable, not necessarily latest.
- boring_twenties 7y ago
  Can an old Thinkpad run Linux? Is that the question? The answer is, definitely. Source: I have seven of them.
- boomer_joe 7y ago
  Forget Linux, you can run Plan9 and TempleOS on old ThinkPads!
jotm 7y ago
I'd like to see the real prototype myself: those connectors on top of a PCB seem too thick to fit into an EC slot - but there have been SSDs made in that form factor. Edit: nevermind, he found a thinner connector. I should've read the Indiegogo page before commenting :) Other than that, this adapter would be great for any laptop with an ExpressCard slot. I can't believe no one's made one before. Kind of late now that new laptops don't have the port, though.
- yttriumtyclief 7y ago
  It was! I had to remove the entire ExpressCard cage on the X230 I was using for testing. However, as noted in your edit, I've since slimmed the drive down further. This is what it looks like now: https://i.imgur.com/A0XEkW5.png https://i.imgur.com/A0XEkW5.png Perfectly fits the EC spec.
zoomablemind 7y ago
Nicely looking idea. Not sure about the benefit though. SSD can be fitted in ThinkPad in several ways already 1) swap internal HDD 2) use the optical drivebay, needs a caddy 3) attach M2 SSD instead of WWAN card (this option is slower) 4) attach externally via eSATA (with adapter cable) All of the options above are bootable (not sure about eSATA, but can test). One more option is nice, of course, though not sure that booting off ExpressCard SSD could be directly supported by the BIOS. In my experience, the most demanded mod was HDMI adapter for DisplayPort, just to attach an occasional larger screen/TV.
- Y-Bopinator 7y ago
  DisplayPort and HDMI are two different competing standards.
- numpad0 7y ago
  Those older ThinkPads predate M.2 standard and since M.2 is longer than mSATA/mPCIe they simply don’t fit in case they needed a PCIe based storage.
  - chx 7y ago
    > M.2 is longer than mSATA There are 42mm long M.2 drives and as all M.2 cards, they are 2mm wide. The largest 2242 SATA drives are 1TB from such reputable brands as Kingspec and Dogfish and I strongly recommend avoiding them like the plague. I'd stick with the Transcend MTS 430S at 512GB, it's the first SSD in such a size with a DRAM cache, launched last year. (At least the first retail, no idea what goes on with industrial SSDs.) Full height Mini PCIe cards are 30×50.95 mm. You can indeed buy an msata to 2242 adapter and it's cheap as dirt because it is completely passive, just the PCB with the right edge connector with the M.2 key B connector mounted on top. Zero electronics necessary. It's just SATA. For the sake of completeness, I must note some newer 2242 drives are key M / NVMe / PCI Express and I haven't seen such an adapter yet. The Sabrent 2TB Rocket is the largest 2242 SSD I am aware of and it's key M.
- LeifCarrotson 7y ago
  This hooks directly to the PCIe bus, so you can boot from an NVMe drive on 2008-2013 era ThinkPads that have no other PCIe exposed. The internal HDD/optical/WWAN M2 interfaces are all SATA-only.
chaz6 7y ago
Does anyone know how to get in touch with the project founder? Kickstarter does not seem to provide any way. I would like a two pack, with one of each size, but right now you have to choose one or the other.
- LeifCarrotson 7y ago
  I thought you could just do two transactions? The founder is on the https://www.reddit.com/r/thinkpad https://www.reddit.com/r/thinkpad subreddit and discord, https://www.reddit.com/u/yttriumtyclief https://www.reddit.com/u/yttriumtyclief or Discord http://discord.gg/Ybdz7AS http://discord.gg/Ybdz7AS @yttrium. Launch post on the subreddit a few days ago: https://www.reddit.com/r/thinkpad/comments/evtje2/its_finally_here_the_launch_of_thinkmods https://www.reddit.com/r/thinkpad/comments/evtje2/its_finall...
- yttriumtyclief 7y ago
  As the other reply noted, I can be reached through a lot of different means, but you can actually do what you're asking to do through Indiegogo! When you select the 2pack and go to the checkout, you can pick sizes individually. You can mix and match.
Scene_Cast2 7y ago
Unrelated story. Back in the day, I got myself a T510. It was a tinkerer's dream - heck, I even learned how to hand-solder SMD on it. Besides the standard mods (swapping the screen and upgrading to the W-series heatsink), I noticed that there was a spare spot on the PCB that looked like it was made for some component. Looking up the teardown of the more professional variant, turns out that it was missing a connector for a mini-PCIE slot. An ebay hunt and hours with a soldering iron later, I had a seemingly-working miniPCIe slot. Didn't really have a use for it though, other than bragging rights. I eventually killed that laptop by bricking the BIOS, and then ruining the motherboard while trying to resolder the SPI BIOS chip. Now, I have a 701CS lying around. Been trying to find the right hardware to restomod it.
- yttriumtyclief 7y ago
  >An ebay hunt and hours with a soldering iron later, I had a seemingly-working miniPCIe slot. Didn't really have a use for it though, other than bragging rights. T440p supports this as well! It has a secret third M.2 2280 B-key slot with SATA3 lanes going to it.
jasoneckert 7y ago
I've been using laptops now for 28 years. I can't think of a more rugged, long-lasting, and well-performing laptop than the Thinkpad series. As a result, I can see this product being a total hit. Most of my students buy used Thinkpads because they're inexpensive and easy to upgrade, so I'm going to show them this link!
- xorcist 7y ago
  The trackpoint is way beyond anything else ergonomically on a laptop. The hands never leaves the typing position. When correctly calibrated, it's controlled only by applying varying pressure. I've yet to find anything that works as good. For those of us who find chiclet style keys a step in the wrong direction, and maybe even prefer matte displays to glossy, older Thinkpads is pretty much the pinnacle of laptops as a productivity tool.
  - fishingisfun 7y ago
    my main reason to continue using the thinkpad. the trackpoint is something i cant give up at this point
  - bluedino 7y ago
    >> The hands never leaves the typing position. I can use the touchpad with my thumb without moving my hands as well.
  - iso1210 7y ago
    I really need a new laptop, my old t410s is falling to bits. I'd love to get a new thinkpad but since they changed they keyboards about 2012ish I'm been procrastinating.
- jolmg 7y ago
  Panasonic toughbooks? Some are so rugged, they're uncomfortable, but others are only semi-rugged and they're pretty nice.
  - smorrow 7y ago
Causality1 7y ago
Wouldn't you be better off installing a SATA SSD instead of limiting your nvme drive to expresscard speeds? Besides, if you've got an expresscard slot by far the best thing to put in it is a bluetooth mouse.
- yttriumtyclief 7y ago
  >the best thing to put in it is a bluetooth mouse If you're talking about a dongle and not a mouse itself, I've got a mod coming for that too~
  - Causality1 7y ago
    No, there are a series of folding Bluetooth mice that fit entirely inside Express card and PC card slots.
bluedino 7y ago
I modified several ThinkPads to use the Wintec Expresscard SSD's back when they were still available. Although they weren't capable of great benchmark scores, they were way, way better than the 2.5" and 1.8" HDD's of the day (think 80GB) http://www.wintecind.com/features/filemate/ssd/wf_expresscard_ssd.html http://www.wintecind.com/features/filemate/ssd/wf_expresscar...
MisterTea 7y ago
Excellent idea! With NVMe now a thing it feels as if the express card slot is ready for a comeback.
hoistbypetard 7y ago
I'm afraid the 2242 requirement makes this much less of a slam dunk than it should be. Last time I looked for one, only the Toshibas were available as 2242 NVMe drives. (Many more similarly-sized drives are available, but they use SATA which won't work with this adapter.) I've been looking for an upgrade to my 2242 PCIe drive but they rarely appear, and usually by the time I find one you can't actually order it anymore.
- microcolonel 7y ago
  It's a major upgrade, if your best storage is currently SATA 2; even if you have to select a relatively obscure SSD manufacturer.
  - rasz 7y ago
    Which Thinkpad would that be? The switch over to SATA 3 happened between T410 and T420, coincidentally thats the same time they switched from Gen1 (PCIe 1.1, 2.5Gbps) to Gen2 (PCIe 2.0, 5Gbps). SATA 2/3 is faster than single lane of PCIe 1.1/2.0. example test on T410 https://pt.aliexpress.com/item/32260935657.html https://pt.aliexpress.com/item/32260935657.html 180MB/s max read out of a drive easily reaching 600MB/s in normal circumstances https://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/6961/plextor-m6e-black-edition-128gb-pcie-ssd-review/index4.html https://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/6961/plextor-m6e-black-edi... TLDR: its ALWAYS inferior to simply using SATA drive in HDD slot.
    - microcolonel 7y ago
      I forgot about the ExpressCard being one lane of PCIe; what a waste. ExpressCard seems extra silly since it was often available on machines with USB 2.0, which was faster than PCIe 1 1x. No wonder it never took off for most.
      - rasz 7y ago
        Single lane of pcie 2.0 is over 14x faster than usb 2.0 (realistic 35 MB/s in optimal circumstances), pcie 1.0 is still >7x faster.

217 points by lelf 7y ago

jaxn 7y ago

Would this have any real performance benefit over a traditional SSD?

2fast4you 7y ago
Size, and I’m assuming speed but I don’t know anything about the express card interface so it might be slow. Also if you just want to cram more drive in your laptop
- VibrantClarity 7y ago
  It's just a single PCIe 2.0 lane. Pretty much the same bandwidth as SATA3
- arm 7y ago
  Mentioned on the linked Indiegogo page¹: “What's the speed limit? The ExpressCard slot is limited to a single PCI-E 2.0 lane. This means the real-world speed bottleneck is 500MB/s, which is roughly the speed of SATA 6Gb/s (SATA 3). Pre-Sandy Bridge models (T410/X201 and older) are limited to PCI-E 1.1, which is roughly 250MB/s.” ―――――― ¹ — https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/thinkmods-expresscard-nvme-adapter/ https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/thinkmods-expresscard-nvm...
numpad0 7y ago
NVMe is somehow better in random access performance. Also ThinkPads before X240 has no space to accommodate M.2/NVMe as those machines predates the standard. Personally I wish(ed) if there were 2.5” shaped GPU than SSD though
- jsilence 7y ago
  A decent GPU in this format would be awesome! Especially since the X220 series can accomodate a 2.5' SSD as well as an m.2 SATA SSD already.
  - ekianjo 7y ago
    You can already connect external GPUs thru this interface on the X220.
    - numpad0 7y ago
      You can but not on your lap
      - ekianjo 7y ago
        I doubt any time soon you will be able to fit a GPU (and power it!) thru a express card slot...
  - jsjohnst 7y ago
    > A decent GPU in this format would be awesome! Good luck with finding a decent GPU that small, let alone with power and thermal profile to support being in an expresscard slot.
- jchw 7y ago
  I don’t really know for sure but my intuition is NVMe can win in random access and latency because it has much larger command queues and typically multiple queues (so each CPU thread can have its own queue.)
  - rasz 7y ago
    does this (T410) look in any way worth it ? https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1adoQGVXXXXaxXFXXq6xXFXXX4/200611227/HTB1adoQGVXXXXaxXFXXq6xXFXXX4.jpg https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1adoQGVXXXXaxXFXXq6xXFXXX4/200...

yjftsjthsd-h 7y ago

That's a slightly odd name for a store with only one product. Hope to see more in the future:)

VvR-Ox 7y ago
I agree! It would be awesome to see more stuff like: - BIOS with core/libreboot[0] - mainboard replacement (e.g. to support USB 3) [1] - better screens [2] - something to deal with that awful touchpad There is already people out there doing it and clearly TP's are some of the most used laptops on this planet for a reason so there is a market. [0]: https://libreboot.org/docs/hardware/x200.html https://libreboot.org/docs/hardware/x200.html [1]: http://panacek.net/post/frankenpad_x225/ http://panacek.net/post/frankenpad_x225/ [2]: https://hackaday.com/2019/02/21/hack-a-thinkpad-display/ https://hackaday.com/2019/02/21/hack-a-thinkpad-display/
- K0SM0S 7y ago
  Don't get me wrong, I really want all those things. So much so that I actually spent a hefty sum on my current TP (X1 Yoga '3rd', 2018) to get all those things 'guaranteed' now and option for later (I'm not much of a hardware tinkerer, but I could already see 2028 and me tweaking it up). That being said, I think it's still a small market. All of TPs I mean, new, used & yet to come (I've got a solid theory that ThinkPads may outlast the heat death of the universe, paper coming soon(tm) ). Seriously, the reason is that the used market is precisely interesting because it's cheap (it's almost a commodity market at that point) whereas the new market is becoming niche like all laptops, like desktops before — think that, for all their glory, GPUs only sell in the single-digit millions to consumers per year — no wonder the juice for these lies in enterprise. So I think you've got room for maybe a few small businesses, small custom shops of a single to few employees, shipping worldwide of course (and I'm not a logistics expert but this is the kind of space where ideally you really want to 'shopify' directly from factory to customer because each cent will be hard fought for). Most of what people use to tweak TPs is already cheap as hell on Aliexpress or eq. I wish it weren't so. Please tell me I''m wrong about this.
  - 7y ago

Evidlo 7y ago

Semi related, but has anyone used the T420's ExpressCard port for USB3 expansion? I bought a USB3 card [0], but the write speed is only barely faster than USB2 for flash media. (interestingly, the write speed is much faster when uploading an image to my FPGA dev board) [0] https://www.amazon.com/ExpressCard-34mm-Adapter-Dual-Port/dp/B0045BLP1S https://www.amazon.com/ExpressCard-34mm-Adapter-Dual-Port/dp...

plapetomain 7y ago
By flash media do you mean memory cards or SSDs? Because that will be a big difference. The issue might not be the pcie USB adapter, and may be whatever it’s connected to. A cheap usb mass storage chip is not going to perform as well as a uas capable chip.
1996 7y ago
I did, it runs way too warm. I am a bit afraid this mod will have the same problem. Instead of plastic, it would be better to use a material that can conduct heat.
- yttriumtyclief 7y ago
  The reason that those USB adapters get hot is because they have to actively convert 3.3V to 5V. That's an inefficient process and it's what causes excess heat. My mod doesn't have that problem, so the only heat generated will be from the drives themselves, which don't put out much.

ohazi 7y ago

It would be nice to know what material/process is used to make the plastic(?) enclosure. Given that the funding goal is $1400 / $1600, I'm assuming it's 3d printed rather than injection molded, but maybe they were able to get a standard part? Otherwise, this appears to be a (rare) good example of a well-planned crowdfunding campaign. The actual design is either completely or almost completely de-risked via one or more prototypes. Both the funding goal and anticipated timeline appear reasonable, and make it clear that the funds are being used for production rather than for development. Number of reward items in each category is capped so that sudden unexpected popularity doesn't doom the project.

culturestate 7y ago
I don't think it's a commercial part - if you look closely at the photo of the first prototype, the left side of the sled shows some distinct lines that look like FDM layers. It also seems like the maker is producing these in small batches in his home lab, so 3D printing makes sense. That said, the CAD model of v2 seems to show some kind of ejector or retention mechanism (in green, again on the left) which could be tricky to print reliably.
- JorgeGT 7y ago
  A lot of people are integrating FDM or other AM techniques into their production, so it doesn't meant it will be home-produced. You can order small batches from Stratasys, 3D Systems or any of the other big manufacturers and you get reliable parts with good tolerances and post-treatment etc., without committing to with injection molding.
  - culturestate 7y ago
    That's true! I think next-gen manufacturing is actually one of the most interesting areas of research going right now. In this case, though, I meant commercial part more like "generic component that you could buy from fifty random aliexpress suppliers" rather than simply "part produced commercially."

zwayhowder 7y ago

Given it's limited to SATA3 speeds, why not just replace the internal hdd with a SATA3 SSD? My X260 is very happy with a 2tb Samsung drive. I suppose this would be lighter, but we are talking about 50g of extra weight for a 2.5" SSD. Some of the future mods though look very cool. I particularly would like the Unifying Mod & WHQD mods.

jchw 7y ago
Is it actually limited to Sata 3 speeds? Assuming ExpressCard can at least get you a PCI Express 2.0 lane I’d expect it to be at least a couple hundred MB/s faster at least theoretically. Also I assume NVMe’s long command queue really benefits SSD performance for random access, so I suspect it may even be worth it just for the interface...
- bluedino 7y ago
  The PCIe 2.0 standard doubles the transfer rate compared with PCIe 1.0 to 5 GT/s and the per-lane throughput rises from 250 MB/s to 500 MB/s. So it's actually less than SATA 3 speeds (600MB/s)
bnt 7y ago
Wouldn’t you get some (minor?) battery life improvements from swapping out the spinning 2.5” with an SSD?
LeifCarrotson 7y ago
It's not SATA, it's NVMe. And vintage ThinkPad enthusiasts are not typically concerned about weight unless they're going for "more is better".
- rasz 7y ago
  its pcie 2.0, slower than sata3
  - LeifCarrotson 7y ago

huxflux 7y ago

God I love my ThinkPads! going to order two tonight.

IntelMiner 7y ago

Does that "51nb" Chinese company still make modded Thinkpads? I bought their "51nb X62" model Thinkpad a few years back from an eBay user, though unfortunately it eventually died. It was a motherboard replacement of the old Thinkpad X60 from many years ago. Replacing the old single core CPU with an Intel Broadwell era i5 and up to 32 gigs of memory You could also install an M.2 SSD in it I believe. Along with USB 3 and other useful new features

robbseaton 7y ago
http://www.cnmod.cn/ http://www.cnmod.cn/
smorrow 7y ago
Someone affiliated with 51nb just hacked the T480 embedded firmware to make proper use of the T25 keyboard. https://www.reddit.com/r/thinkpad/comments/ewtm36/perfect_t480_modification_with_thinkpad_25th_7row/ https://www.reddit.com/r/thinkpad/comments/ewtm36/perfect_t4...

wilhil 7y ago

Is there really a market for modding a 7+ year old laptop? I know thinkpads used to be great (And some still are), but, I just don't get the point in trying to give more life to something so so old - most likely ~3rd-4th gen intel.

juped 7y ago
If it's a ThinkPad? Absolutely. Many people are drowning in outdated ThinkPads, because you can ebay them for often sub-$100 prices.
boomlinde 7y ago
Apparently there was enough market interest to reach the funding goal in 24 hours. As a 7 year old Thinkpad user: 4th generation Core is absolutely fine for me. I can get a refurbished and kitted out replacement for some 200 euros. I could upgrade the RAM from 8G to 16G, but in my daily use I've seen no concrete reason to do so yet. SSD is great, though. Maybe I spend a few more minutes compiling software on this machine than I would on a more recent laptop, but I'm not losing sleep over it. I can see why you'd want something more out of, say, a gaming PC or something you use for resource intensive analysis applications, machine learning etc. but getting a laptop for that seems like a waste of money to me, compared to getting a desktop computer that you can upgrade incrementally. I'm interested, though. What is it that people do where you feel that your laptop needs to be more powerful than this?
jankotek 7y ago
There is viable market (it has customers). But I would say it is just nostalgia. Some people even say it is not real ThinkPad unless it was made by IBM (pre 2006).
- wpietri 7y ago
  For me it's definitely not just nostalgia. I type this on my X220t, which was released in 2011; it hangs around my house as the general-browsing-and-social-media machine. I love the keyboard and trackpoint, and older Thinkpads are rugged in a way that new models have apparently given up on. I bought the Thinkpad 25, which was basically a 2017 mid-range laptop with the old keyboard. It's adequate, but flimsier and less reliable.

dabmancer 7y ago

Why did people buy these? I just have a 2.5" SSD in mine and RAM has always been the bottleneck. A cool project from a technical perspective IMO.

1996 7y ago
Because some of us enjoy having software raid setups in a laptop! This will allow raid10 setup with 3 drives for best read performance, e.g. "--level=10 --layout=f3" You can also do the o3 if you want best write performance

deltron3030 7y ago

Are all Thinkpads with ExpressCard/54 supported? http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/ExpressCard_slot http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/ExpressCard_slot I have an old X200 laying around and I was thinking of reactivating it, but it's from 2008..

hddherman 7y ago
According to this Reddit thread, it should be: https://www.reddit.com/r/thinkpad/comments/evtje2/its_finally_here_the_launch_of_thinkmods/ffxvxaw/ https://www.reddit.com/r/thinkpad/comments/evtje2/its_finall...

ngcc_hk 7y ago

Can you run linux on it? Just want a dual boot win/linux portable, not necessarily latest.

boring_twenties 7y ago
Can an old Thinkpad run Linux? Is that the question? The answer is, definitely. Source: I have seven of them.
boomer_joe 7y ago
Forget Linux, you can run Plan9 and TempleOS on old ThinkPads!

jotm 7y ago

I'd like to see the real prototype myself: those connectors on top of a PCB seem too thick to fit into an EC slot - but there have been SSDs made in that form factor. Edit: nevermind, he found a thinner connector. I should've read the Indiegogo page before commenting :) Other than that, this adapter would be great for any laptop with an ExpressCard slot. I can't believe no one's made one before. Kind of late now that new laptops don't have the port, though.

yttriumtyclief 7y ago
It was! I had to remove the entire ExpressCard cage on the X230 I was using for testing. However, as noted in your edit, I've since slimmed the drive down further. This is what it looks like now: https://i.imgur.com/A0XEkW5.png https://i.imgur.com/A0XEkW5.png Perfectly fits the EC spec.

zoomablemind 7y ago

Nicely looking idea. Not sure about the benefit though. SSD can be fitted in ThinkPad in several ways already 1) swap internal HDD 2) use the optical drivebay, needs a caddy 3) attach M2 SSD instead of WWAN card (this option is slower) 4) attach externally via eSATA (with adapter cable) All of the options above are bootable (not sure about eSATA, but can test). One more option is nice, of course, though not sure that booting off ExpressCard SSD could be directly supported by the BIOS. In my experience, the most demanded mod was HDMI adapter for DisplayPort, just to attach an occasional larger screen/TV.

Y-Bopinator 7y ago
DisplayPort and HDMI are two different competing standards.
numpad0 7y ago
Those older ThinkPads predate M.2 standard and since M.2 is longer than mSATA/mPCIe they simply don’t fit in case they needed a PCIe based storage.
- chx 7y ago
  > M.2 is longer than mSATA There are 42mm long M.2 drives and as all M.2 cards, they are 2mm wide. The largest 2242 SATA drives are 1TB from such reputable brands as Kingspec and Dogfish and I strongly recommend avoiding them like the plague. I'd stick with the Transcend MTS 430S at 512GB, it's the first SSD in such a size with a DRAM cache, launched last year. (At least the first retail, no idea what goes on with industrial SSDs.) Full height Mini PCIe cards are 30×50.95 mm. You can indeed buy an msata to 2242 adapter and it's cheap as dirt because it is completely passive, just the PCB with the right edge connector with the M.2 key B connector mounted on top. Zero electronics necessary. It's just SATA. For the sake of completeness, I must note some newer 2242 drives are key M / NVMe / PCI Express and I haven't seen such an adapter yet. The Sabrent 2TB Rocket is the largest 2242 SSD I am aware of and it's key M.
LeifCarrotson 7y ago
This hooks directly to the PCIe bus, so you can boot from an NVMe drive on 2008-2013 era ThinkPads that have no other PCIe exposed. The internal HDD/optical/WWAN M2 interfaces are all SATA-only.

chaz6 7y ago

Does anyone know how to get in touch with the project founder? Kickstarter does not seem to provide any way. I would like a two pack, with one of each size, but right now you have to choose one or the other.

LeifCarrotson 7y ago
I thought you could just do two transactions? The founder is on the https://www.reddit.com/r/thinkpad https://www.reddit.com/r/thinkpad subreddit and discord, https://www.reddit.com/u/yttriumtyclief https://www.reddit.com/u/yttriumtyclief or Discord http://discord.gg/Ybdz7AS http://discord.gg/Ybdz7AS @yttrium. Launch post on the subreddit a few days ago: https://www.reddit.com/r/thinkpad/comments/evtje2/its_finally_here_the_launch_of_thinkmods https://www.reddit.com/r/thinkpad/comments/evtje2/its_finall...
yttriumtyclief 7y ago
As the other reply noted, I can be reached through a lot of different means, but you can actually do what you're asking to do through Indiegogo! When you select the 2pack and go to the checkout, you can pick sizes individually. You can mix and match.

Scene_Cast2 7y ago

Unrelated story. Back in the day, I got myself a T510. It was a tinkerer's dream - heck, I even learned how to hand-solder SMD on it. Besides the standard mods (swapping the screen and upgrading to the W-series heatsink), I noticed that there was a spare spot on the PCB that looked like it was made for some component. Looking up the teardown of the more professional variant, turns out that it was missing a connector for a mini-PCIE slot. An ebay hunt and hours with a soldering iron later, I had a seemingly-working miniPCIe slot. Didn't really have a use for it though, other than bragging rights. I eventually killed that laptop by bricking the BIOS, and then ruining the motherboard while trying to resolder the SPI BIOS chip. Now, I have a 701CS lying around. Been trying to find the right hardware to restomod it.

yttriumtyclief 7y ago
>An ebay hunt and hours with a soldering iron later, I had a seemingly-working miniPCIe slot. Didn't really have a use for it though, other than bragging rights. T440p supports this as well! It has a secret third M.2 2280 B-key slot with SATA3 lanes going to it.

jasoneckert 7y ago

I've been using laptops now for 28 years. I can't think of a more rugged, long-lasting, and well-performing laptop than the Thinkpad series. As a result, I can see this product being a total hit. Most of my students buy used Thinkpads because they're inexpensive and easy to upgrade, so I'm going to show them this link!

xorcist 7y ago
The trackpoint is way beyond anything else ergonomically on a laptop. The hands never leaves the typing position. When correctly calibrated, it's controlled only by applying varying pressure. I've yet to find anything that works as good. For those of us who find chiclet style keys a step in the wrong direction, and maybe even prefer matte displays to glossy, older Thinkpads is pretty much the pinnacle of laptops as a productivity tool.
- fishingisfun 7y ago
  my main reason to continue using the thinkpad. the trackpoint is something i cant give up at this point
- bluedino 7y ago
  >> The hands never leaves the typing position. I can use the touchpad with my thumb without moving my hands as well.
- iso1210 7y ago
  I really need a new laptop, my old t410s is falling to bits. I'd love to get a new thinkpad but since they changed they keyboards about 2012ish I'm been procrastinating.
jolmg 7y ago
Panasonic toughbooks? Some are so rugged, they're uncomfortable, but others are only semi-rugged and they're pretty nice.
- smorrow 7y ago

Causality1 7y ago

Wouldn't you be better off installing a SATA SSD instead of limiting your nvme drive to expresscard speeds? Besides, if you've got an expresscard slot by far the best thing to put in it is a bluetooth mouse.

yttriumtyclief 7y ago
>the best thing to put in it is a bluetooth mouse If you're talking about a dongle and not a mouse itself, I've got a mod coming for that too~
- Causality1 7y ago
  No, there are a series of folding Bluetooth mice that fit entirely inside Express card and PC card slots.

bluedino 7y ago

I modified several ThinkPads to use the Wintec Expresscard SSD's back when they were still available. Although they weren't capable of great benchmark scores, they were way, way better than the 2.5" and 1.8" HDD's of the day (think 80GB) http://www.wintecind.com/features/filemate/ssd/wf_expresscard_ssd.html http://www.wintecind.com/features/filemate/ssd/wf_expresscar...

MisterTea 7y ago

Excellent idea! With NVMe now a thing it feels as if the express card slot is ready for a comeback.

hoistbypetard 7y ago

I'm afraid the 2242 requirement makes this much less of a slam dunk than it should be. Last time I looked for one, only the Toshibas were available as 2242 NVMe drives. (Many more similarly-sized drives are available, but they use SATA which won't work with this adapter.) I've been looking for an upgrade to my 2242 PCIe drive but they rarely appear, and usually by the time I find one you can't actually order it anymore.

microcolonel 7y ago
It's a major upgrade, if your best storage is currently SATA 2; even if you have to select a relatively obscure SSD manufacturer.
- rasz 7y ago
  Which Thinkpad would that be? The switch over to SATA 3 happened between T410 and T420, coincidentally thats the same time they switched from Gen1 (PCIe 1.1, 2.5Gbps) to Gen2 (PCIe 2.0, 5Gbps). SATA 2/3 is faster than single lane of PCIe 1.1/2.0. example test on T410 https://pt.aliexpress.com/item/32260935657.html https://pt.aliexpress.com/item/32260935657.html 180MB/s max read out of a drive easily reaching 600MB/s in normal circumstances https://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/6961/plextor-m6e-black-edition-128gb-pcie-ssd-review/index4.html https://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/6961/plextor-m6e-black-edi... TLDR: its ALWAYS inferior to simply using SATA drive in HDD slot.
  - microcolonel 7y ago
    I forgot about the ExpressCard being one lane of PCIe; what a waste. ExpressCard seems extra silly since it was often available on machines with USB 2.0, which was faster than PCIe 1 1x. No wonder it never took off for most.
    - rasz 7y ago
      Single lane of pcie 2.0 is over 14x faster than usb 2.0 (realistic 35 MB/s in optimal circumstances), pcie 1.0 is still >7x faster.