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What is Apple is heading toward completely sealed phones with only wireless charging / data xfer and they’re nervous that the EU is going to force them to keep

What is Apple is heading toward completely sealed phones with only wireless charging / data xfer and they’re nervous that the EU is going to force them to keep the physical port on the device?

jakear 7y ago
I wonder what that will do for security. It seems the publicly known exploits tend to use the wired connection to swipe data from the phone. It would likely be much more difficult to do that wirelessly. It would be a shame to lose the potential hardening benefits because of some lawmakers who may not have privacy as a core interest... or indeed quite the opposite.
- gpm 7y ago
  You can always not connect the data wires to the port.
  - kevin_thibedeau 7y ago
    Then you can't use USB-PD protocol and only get the gimped resistor-based current negotiation.
    - Kliment 7y ago
      USB-PD doesn't use the data wires (dp/dn or the two high speed diffpairs), it uses a sidechannel (CC). You can have a full PD implementation without a host controller or any data connection.
- int_19h 7y ago
  This is strictly about charging, so a phone that uses USB for charging only, and does synchronization etc wirelessly, should still be compliant.
samatman 7y ago
Well, not that it's relevant to the topic at hand, but if they do so, I'm leaving the ecosystem. Not being able to charge from a backpack or a car is a non-starter for me. I go weeks without plugging my phone into the wall, but when I need it, I really need it.
- djannzjkzxn 7y ago
  Apple has worked on wireless proximity charging where the device merely needs to be within a few feet of the charger. I hear there are serious engineering challenges that make this hard to achieve but I don’t think they will remove the port with the current QI charging experience. Maybe there will be a charging battery you can just throw in the same bag as the phone and the phone will charge.
  - jakobegger 7y ago
    > ... serious engineering challenges ... I'd say there are serious physical challenges with this problem. Wireless power transfer over distances of more than an inch without big parabolic antennas is about as realistic as hoverboards.
    - georgespencer 7y ago
      uBeam is the canonical example of this. Their own VP Engineering left and publicly stated that the technology simply doesn't work. ELI5 is that you need an impractically large phased array to transmit, and the attenuation is precipitous even at short distances. The commentary I've read (by no means exhaustive) treats it as if it's a "laws of physics" problem, but I would assume the company had some reasonably compelling answers to this challenge given that they raised $40m USD from some bright investors.
  - scottlocklin 7y ago
    My iphone X does this; works fine. It's not that "wireless" -just a shitty transformer, but it's nice.
- culturestate 7y ago
ksec 7y ago
Please tell me you read my "Sealed" iPhone comment on macrumors :D Yes. And I think they will use Smart Connector currently used on iPad as Data and Power Connection. Since it isn't really a port so the devices is still all sealed up. Assuming they get rid up Sim tray as well.
PunksATawnyFill 7y ago
Wireless charging is a stupid gimmick, but it’s the anti-consumer angle that will get Apple on board with wireless-only.
tripzilch 7y ago
Wireless charging is covered under point 6 of the resolution. https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/RC-9-2020-0070_EN.html https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/RC-9-2020-0070...

What is Apple is heading toward completely sealed phones with only wireless charging / data xfer and they’re nervous that the EU is going to force them to keep the physical port on the device?

jakear 7y ago

I wonder what that will do for security. It seems the publicly known exploits tend to use the wired connection to swipe data from the phone. It would likely be much more difficult to do that wirelessly. It would be a shame to lose the potential hardening benefits because of some lawmakers who may not have privacy as a core interest... or indeed quite the opposite.

gpm 7y ago
You can always not connect the data wires to the port.
- kevin_thibedeau 7y ago
  Then you can't use USB-PD protocol and only get the gimped resistor-based current negotiation.
  - Kliment 7y ago
    USB-PD doesn't use the data wires (dp/dn or the two high speed diffpairs), it uses a sidechannel (CC). You can have a full PD implementation without a host controller or any data connection.
int_19h 7y ago
This is strictly about charging, so a phone that uses USB for charging only, and does synchronization etc wirelessly, should still be compliant.

samatman 7y ago

Well, not that it's relevant to the topic at hand, but if they do so, I'm leaving the ecosystem. Not being able to charge from a backpack or a car is a non-starter for me. I go weeks without plugging my phone into the wall, but when I need it, I really need it.

djannzjkzxn 7y ago
Apple has worked on wireless proximity charging where the device merely needs to be within a few feet of the charger. I hear there are serious engineering challenges that make this hard to achieve but I don’t think they will remove the port with the current QI charging experience. Maybe there will be a charging battery you can just throw in the same bag as the phone and the phone will charge.
- jakobegger 7y ago
  > ... serious engineering challenges ... I'd say there are serious physical challenges with this problem. Wireless power transfer over distances of more than an inch without big parabolic antennas is about as realistic as hoverboards.
  - georgespencer 7y ago
    uBeam is the canonical example of this. Their own VP Engineering left and publicly stated that the technology simply doesn't work. ELI5 is that you need an impractically large phased array to transmit, and the attenuation is precipitous even at short distances. The commentary I've read (by no means exhaustive) treats it as if it's a "laws of physics" problem, but I would assume the company had some reasonably compelling answers to this challenge given that they raised $40m USD from some bright investors.
- scottlocklin 7y ago
  My iphone X does this; works fine. It's not that "wireless" -just a shitty transformer, but it's nice.
culturestate 7y ago

ksec 7y ago

Please tell me you read my "Sealed" iPhone comment on macrumors :D Yes. And I think they will use Smart Connector currently used on iPad as Data and Power Connection. Since it isn't really a port so the devices is still all sealed up. Assuming they get rid up Sim tray as well.

PunksATawnyFill 7y ago

Wireless charging is a stupid gimmick, but it’s the anti-consumer angle that will get Apple on board with wireless-only.

tripzilch 7y ago

Wireless charging is covered under point 6 of the resolution. https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/RC-9-2020-0070_EN.html https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/RC-9-2020-0070...