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EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

• epicgiga 7y ago
  Standardizing (controlling) by fiat tech they didn't make, with no real need or justification. Just for the sake of the flex, being busybodies, and pretending they're important and "the boss of you". Sooner that rabble gets overthrown the better. One domino has fallen now, hope the rest follow in short order.
  • SideburnsOfDoom 7y ago
    We see lots of this mouth-frothing, hate-fulled rhetoric on reddit, and IMHO I don't want it to spread.
    • t223 7y ago
      I believe it’s too late. In my opinion the current political climate has fueled outrage culture and from my perspective things have gone from bad to worse.
    • epicgiga 7y ago
      Nothin wrong with hate when targeted at vice, nothing wrong with love when targeted at virtue.
    • mambojumbo 7y ago
      Oh the good old censorship wishes of the far left. Fortunately the world doesn't revolve around you. The EU has bigger battles to fight yet it chose to waste taxpayers money debating this nonsense.
  • dTal 7y ago
    Or maybe the need and justification is that multiple similar but incompatible charging standards is wasteful and annoying. As that's the stated reason, it seems a bit more likely than "for the sake of flex". Is government regulation of non-goverment tech illegitimate? That would be most all regulation then.
• throwGuardian 7y ago
  Why should the EU government impose restrictions on mobile charger types? I'm no fan of Apple,and frankly, I find it gratifying that someone is pushing them around - something Apple routinely does to entities that aren't as powerful, but regulating chargers in the name of __insert_populist_reason__ is just way too authoritarian by the EU. Please go solve real problems
  • SideburnsOfDoom 7y ago
    Is compatibility and reducing the amount of electric junk that needs to be produced, and that we need to carry around really "__insert_populist_reason__" to you?
  • aaronmdjones 7y ago
    Electronic waste created because you can't use the charger from $vendor_x with a mobile device from $vendor_y -- and subsequently have no use for the charger -- is a Real Problem. This is a step toward solving that, and thus, they are solving real problems.
    • toomuchtodo 7y ago
      What about mandating Qi wireless charging as well? Think of it as mandating Bluetooth; you don’t care about the hardware, just meeting the wireless interface spec. If I could ubiquitously charge my mobile devices anywhere with gear built into my surroundings, I’d likely never need future charging cables or hardware. You lose some electrical efficiency but gain a reduction in physical hardware churn.
      • aaronmdjones 7y ago
        Mandating wireless charging is still a bit of a stretch (it's not popular yet, so would be a short-term cost and manufacturing increase), but wireless charging is mentioned in the linked article as something they should look into ensuring is broadly-compatible (which should help prevent incompatibility waste when it does become ubiquitous). Also, presently anyway, wireless charging generally has power limits on the order of 5 watts, while the USB 3 PD spec allows for up to 100. A modern mobile phone pulls more than 5 watts from a wall charger, so mandating wireless charging would also result in a short-term charging time increase. They're also not as easy to transport and use anywhere (e.g. on a train with a power socket but without a tray table). Many people would find that unacceptable. My Nexus 5 had wireless charging, I had that phone for more than 3 years, and I never got to use it before it died and I upgraded to a 6P, which doesn't have it.
• sschueller 7y ago
  The only reason this happened is because one company refusees to play ball. Everyone else already figured out that it's better for consumers and them. Apple would sell you a non standard power socket for your house if they could.
  • epicgiga 7y ago
    That company not "playing ball" (doing its own thing) is the whole reason the industry exists. The Little Red Hen obviously isn't taught enough over there. Parasites and busybodies.
  • sandov 7y ago
    "I know what is best for you and me, so I'll force you to make the chargers I want" I don't think Apple are the biggest assholes in this situation.
    • dTal 7y ago
      So, to be clear, your position is that the very concept of regulation is illegitimate? "I know what is best for you, so I'll force you to make the car safety features I want".
      • sandov 7y ago
        It may be legitimate when the regulated action causes direct physical harm to someone else. For example: I think it's reasonable to regulate particulate emissions. It's not legitimate to regulate manufacture or commercialization of products when that manufacture or commercialization poses no direct threat to the physical well-being of other individuals.
        • dTal 7y ago
          Why draw the line at physical well-being? Why should it be fine to waste someone's time, cost them money, even destroy them emotionally, so long as you don't directly physically harm them? Your scope is absurdly narrow.
• SideburnsOfDoom 7y ago
  This is a good move. Finally my partner and I, with apple and android devices respectively, can share chargers if need be. it's a pity that Apple didn't play ball voluntarily, and had to be ordered to be nice.
  • mvanbaak 7y ago
    Lol. What if the standard turns out to be lightning?
    • marcinzelent 7y ago
      Then it still will be standard and OP will be able to share the charger with their partner. But there is no way Lightning could be a standard because only Apple is using it.
  • defnotashton2 7y ago
    Ahh yes an expensive legislative bill is how we solve that problem, instead of a 5$, breakout cable from Amazon or most corner convince stores.
    • SideburnsOfDoom 7y ago
      Exactly. Less hassle, less wasteful, disposable electronic junk.
      • defnotashton2 7y ago
        The costs of the ink this regulation will be printed on will cost more than whatever its attempting to save.
        • SideburnsOfDoom 7y ago
          The message that it sends to companies that don't play ball, and sort something out voluntarily between themselves that is in consumers' best interests (and by this I mean Apple), will be worth it. "an expensive legislative bill" was not the first recourse to "how we solve that problem". But it is a necessary fallback.
• OrangeMango 7y ago
  Apple should just be super courageous. Their current phones already follow a charging standard: qi. The $5 qi charger at Ikea charges an iPhone just fine. I have one on my desk. Now, you are probably thinking that if something goes wrong, you'd rather be able to fix it than to throw your phone in the trash, generating more unnecessary waste. So Apple should take the lead and put a diagnostic port on each phone. Perhaps at the bottom, in the middle. To reduce the negative environmental impact of designing a new diagnostic port connection cable, Apple should design their diagnostic interface to be compatible with the billions of Lightning and/or USB-C cables already in the hands of consumers and repair shops. That would be courageous.
• Rebelgecko 7y ago
  What does this mean in practice? Are Android phone makers going to have to license the Lightning port from Apple? Or is the EU going to declare that USB-C is the be all end all of phone plugs? It sounds like they're trying to standardize the actual chargers, I wonder how that will work USB-PDs many different modes? What about proprietary fast charging schemes? (maybe those already died out after the move to USB-c?). I'm slightly uncomfortable with the idea of a universal standard stifling innovation, so hopefully the EU will be responsive if something better gets invented in the future. I'm guessing that whatever comes after USB-C will exist in the US and Asia for years before its allowed in the EU... which may or may not be a good thing I suppose. USB-C as a plug has so many capabilities. It's interesting that they're looking at wireless charging too. Other than my toothbrush and an induction stove, I can't remember the last time I saw wireless charging that wasn't Qi. The only exception is some of the experimental room-scale charging startups. I suppose they're already fighting against the laws of physics, the laws of the EU can't be that much worse.
  • SideburnsOfDoom 7y ago
    > Are Android phone makers going to have to license the Lightning port from Apple? Or is the EU going to declare that USB-C is the be all end all of phone plugs? It looks more like the latter. After all, Apple is the odd one out now. https://www.androidcentral.com/eu-may-push-iphones-adopt-usb-c-androids-prefer https://www.androidcentral.com/eu-may-push-iphones-adopt-usb...
    • deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    • GeekyBear 7y ago
      Apple's chargers already have moved to USB-C. It's the cable included in the box with newer iPhones that is USB-C on one end and lightning on the other.
  • dsfyu404ed 7y ago
    About a year ago someone posted a "Look at the cool stuff I bought/saw on my trip to Shenzen" blog post and one of the items featured was a bastardized Chinese USB-C and Lightening cable that technically met neither spec but worked with either. I think you'll see a lot of those for sale.
• martin8412 7y ago
  I still don't quite understand what this actually means, and frankly I'm not certain that the politicians understand it either. Is it just on the connector? Is it the charger plug? Amount of wires in the cable? Cable gauge? Power rating? Proprietary charging protocols? If everything about charging portable devices must be truly universal, then every single piece of the puzzle must be the same for everyone. Sure, Apple is the most prominent example because they use a different connector, but should things like Qualcomm's proprietary charging protocols not also be banned then? Unless they're willing to license it for free to everyone How much power should the chargers be rated for? 5W, 18W, 50W? Different devices have different power requirements, so should we just have all chargers rated at the max that the spec allows for? Just because the connector is the same also does not mean that the devices will actually work together, lightning cables already have the requirement of MFI certification from Apple, and they could probably do the exact same over a USB-C cable.
  • ddlsmurf 7y ago
    I don't think they work at that level of detail that high up, they just vote "make it universal" and then a bunch of other regulatory bodies need to setup the exact requirements and negotiate them.
• falcolas 7y ago
  The iPad Pro uses a usb c charger, as does the MacBook line; stifles innovation my ass.
  • nemothekid 7y ago
    As far as I remember, this piece of legislation has been floating around since USB mini. We have now gone through 2 revisions to a connector that is now reversible and can carry video. Locking onto USB-C now could be a very "640k ought to be enough for everybody" moment. And if Apple was going to switch to USB C anyways, whats the point of this legislation?
    • lukifer 7y ago
      > Locking onto USB-C now could be a very "640k ought to be enough for everybody" moment. I agree in general; but at some point don't we hit diminishing returns? If I were to say, "18.4 exabytes of RAM ought to be enough for everybody", that'd be basically correct, even future-proofing for the craziest sci-fi holodeck use cases we can imagine, right?
      • mritun 7y ago
        How do you know? Have you seen the future? As much as I am for interoperability, a legislation directing a specific technology is one way how we end up with ridiculous standards. Remember, we still have laws on where we can or cannot tie a horse in town on the books a century after they were irrelevant. Laws move in centuries, while technology moves in years. They are not compliant with each other.
        • lukifer 7y ago
          I agree; if this law were put to a vote, I would vote against it. I just think it's conceivable that we hit a point where there's very little end-user benefit to additional improvements, and we achieve an equilibrium that essentially solves the given problem[0]. The catch is: we don't necessarily know in advance at what point that will actually be the case (hence the irony of the 640k line, which I'm sure sounded very sensible at the time, just as the 18.4 EB thing sounds very sensible to me now). [0] One of the reasons that the loss of the headphone jack is so exasperating, is that's an example of an ideal universal connector; it solved the problem so well, there was little reason to improve on it, either in quality or function.
• nickserv 7y ago
  Good news, and I hope it passes the commission. With USB-C there's no real reason to have other standards for charging a cell phone. And with that out of the way, manufacturers can focus on developing a universal wireless charging protocol.
  • carierx1 7y ago
    Yes we want more interventionism!
  • ViViDboarder 7y ago
    Maybe you were sarcastic but... Reasons to have other standards exist because they are better than USB-C. I’ve got a lightning port on my current phone, while my old phone was USB-C, as well as my current laptop and tablet both USB-C. I have to say, the lightning feels significantly more secure. Also, we have a standard for wireless charging. Qi has been around for years. Old Nexus used to have it. New iPhones do have it. IKEA even sells cheap furniture with chargers built in.
    • ashildr 7y ago
      Yeah, and once the EU defined 5Watt Qi as THE wireless charging standard we’ll be stuck with that for a decade.
  • mrep 7y ago
    > With USB-C there's no real reason to have other standards for charging a cell phone. I'll take lightning over usb-c anyday. I currently have a pixel 3 and it does not connect half the time and yes, I clean out the stupid port with a toothpick even though I never had to do that with an iphone. Android auto is especially annoying as a slight bump can cause it to disconnect and then it takes like 20 seconds to get it back running with the map on the dashboard. The stupid headphone jack connector also sucks because the only way I can work out with it is if I use 2 rubber bands to pull the usb-c to headphone jack connector tight constantly or else the slightest movement in my pocket will disconnect it.
    • 7y ago
• SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
  I'm not sure how I feel about the requirements to unify the cables, but does the Lightening port offer advantages does over USB-C?
  • lukifer 7y ago
    This is an instance where I oppose the idea in the abstract, but support it in the specifics: USB-C has finally achieved a degree of "good enough" (naming/labeling issues notwithstanding) to be the ideal universal connector. But: imagine what we might have gotten stuck with if this law had been implemented 10-20 years ago.
    • SiempreViernes 7y ago
      While this resolution isn't actually a law, it does call for the commission to ensure standards get updated as technology develops, so I'm not seeing why we should imagine us being extra stuck with some old technology.
      • lukifer 7y ago
        I think the fear is, the companies will be hindered from making those innovations if they have to go through a centralized approval process, particularly if that process is slow, bureaucratic, technologically illiterate, resistant to change, etc (to say nothing of regulatory capture). I'm not deadset against this sort of thing, and I think we could do a lot worse than USB-C as the new universal connector (at least for the next decade or so), but given past attempts at regulating tech (cookie banners), I think it's a legitimate concern.
        • SiempreViernes 7y ago
          Well yes, but the upside of standards is that you are not beholden to a single company that could at any point try to create vendor lock-in and force you to pay an unfair price.
  • kalleboo 7y ago
• BinaryIdiot 7y ago
  The joint motion points to adopting Directive 2014/53/EU which requires common _chargers_ but says nothing about the port that the phone uses. As far as I can tell this is only for the back half of the charger / brick that connects to the wall. Yet the Apple statement, and most of the articles about this (including the linked one), are talking about the phone's connector and talks about lightning and usb-c. Most of the comments online are talking about how this forces Apple to use usb-c. So, which is it? Isn't this just regulating the power bricks / back half of the charging equation? I don't see anything in the joint motion or directive stating a connector on a device has to be uniform at all. Joint motion: https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/RC-9-2020-0070_EN.html https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/RC-9-2020-0070... Directive: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX:02014L0053-20180911 https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX:02...
  • pwinnski 7y ago
    Apple is already using USB-C on the bit that plugs into the wall, so if that's all this is, it's nothing. Apple has protested this, so it seems like it must be more.
    • akvadrako 7y ago
      It seems pretty clear at the current stage it’s completely vague. Probably Apple has no idea what actionable laws will result. Will they mandate all phones have usb-c ports? That’s absurd because who knows what’ll be the standard port in 5 years.
      • iSnow 7y ago
        The only thing the EU mandates is producers come up with a common standard. Whether that's USB-C or Lightning is of no interest to the EU.
        • greglindahl 7y ago
          Who could possibly criticize the EU for mandating something which has a history of being successfully used by some of the producers to fuck over the rest?
• theslurmmustflo 7y ago
  I'll miss lightning when it's gone if only because it was the most satisfying and secure feeling cable connection I've ever used. USB-C has some slack built into it by design but it just makes it feel lower quality.
  • duxup 7y ago
    Yeah USB C is nice but .. it is wiggly compared to lightning or USB A.
    • 2muchcoffeeman 7y ago
      It’s not nice though. You can’t even guarantee what your USBC cable does.
  • birdyrooster 7y ago
    The USB-C ports wear out badly after a couple years of use and are loose. Lightning, as you are saying, still feels good after years of daily use. The duty cycle is higher for lightning and should be used for things which are often disconnected and reconnected like mobile devices.
    • murderfs 7y ago
      It's usually not the port that's wearing out, but the cable, because USB-C moved the retention clips from the port to the cable.
      • rexf 7y ago
        I've experienced the port wearing out. Using the same cable with two different MBPs, only one MBP has loose ports when plugging in.
        • akvadrako 7y ago
          MBP have some of the lowest quality USB-C ports so I’m not sure that’s fair. Mine never worked reasonably well.
• martin-adams 7y ago
  Let’s say this rule was in place 10 years ago and we standardised on micro USB. How would it have been possible to advance to the next generation of technology like USB-C. This feels that it’s banking on USB-C being forever future proofed or wireless connections does everything we ever need.
  • Angostura 7y ago
    An IETF-style process to swap to a new standard, presumably.
    • sib 7y ago
      Which will be captured by a bunch of manufacturers who like to innovate on "cheapest / crappiest" and who will outvotes the one manufacturer who actually innovates on "best"... As a customer, I'd like to keep the option for "best."
      • Angostura 7y ago
        Presumably that's why you are still using SNA to network your machines.
  • microtherion 7y ago
    Micro USB would be kind of mediocre. But if the rule had been in place 20 years ago, cell phones today might be featuring SCSI connectors. And of course, all laptops would be mandated to have VGA connectors, eliminating a ton of conference room presentation guesswork.
    • kevingadd 7y ago
      Why would you use SCSI to charge a phone? It'd be a standardized power connector, probably like those small round ones that are used for all sorts of household appliances. Similarly, your projector is already using a standardized power cable: The one that goes into your wall socket. For cables that don't terminate with a regular 2/3 prong on the other end, there are a few standardized shapes there too. My monitors and PC PSUs all take the same sort of connector on the non-wall-socket end even if they pull different amperages.
• myblake 7y ago
  iPhone’s not using USB-C is kind of a pain and I’m still not sure I love government intervention in this area. Lightning is weird in that it works quite well but as everything else has moved to USB-C it’s become more of a weird outlier. Definitely a mixed bag overall.
• tanilama 7y ago
  I can't see a single reason why iPhone shouldn't use usb-c at the moment except to build Apple's own walled garden to charge a surplus against its customer.
  • reaperducer 7y ago
    Because lightning was available long before USB-C and there's no reason that hundreds of millions of customers should have to switch to new cables and throw billions of old chargers, wires, and accessories into landfills? When USB-C is superior for using on phones, then I'm OK with it. But right now it's just exchanging one plug for another because a bunch of bureaucrats say so. Does this mean in 20 years we'll still be stuck with USB-C instead of something better because just Brussels says so?
    • ApolloFortyNine 7y ago
      Well right now, if you are not fully locked into the Apple ecosystem, you require two cables. That's quite a waste, no? We're quite lucky no PC manufacturer managed to get as big as Apple is today back in the 80s-90s. There's no way we would have universal RAM, universal Keyboards, universal Video Cards, etc, etc, today, if that was the case.
      • reaperducer 7y ago
        Well right now, if you are not fully locked into the Apple ecosystem, you require two cables. That's quite a waste, no? No. I am not locked into the Apple ecosystem. Having two cables enables me to charge two devices at the same time, no?
        • ApolloFortyNine 7y ago
          What if you want a cable in your office, and in the bedroom? One at work, one at home, one in the car? Are you going to make me list out every scenario that is doubled?
• throawayguy 7y ago
  The euro-scum should stop trying to micromanage US companies and our government should step up and go after their business interests.
• sh1mmer 7y ago
  If Apple are really bothered by this they should just make 2 versions (lightening and USB-C) and let consumers choose. They already do multiple versions for radios (GSM vs CDMA) so I can’t imagine this would be a terrible challenge for them other than losing lightening cable licensing fees.
• exabrial 7y ago
  Do we really need governments doing this? Imagine getting locked up for selling phone cables.
  • ripdog 7y ago
    I'm not sure why you assume that this law, should it eventually appear, would be enforced with jail time? For that matter, why it would even be targeted at sellers of cables instead of phone makers?
  • kevingadd 7y ago
    A significant portion - if not the vast majority - of laws and regulations have no criminal penalties and have civil penalties at most. Many are just advisory. Notice how Apple has technically been in violation of these rules for years and is only now getting punished and nobody is going to jail. Everyone shouts about GDPR but fines are something like the 3rd or 4th stage of the remedy process - up until that point the regulator is working with you and no punishment of any kind has occurred. Of course since the GDPR is at an EU level, individual member states could opt to jail people for violations - I couldn't find any examples of that, however.
• happytoexplain 7y ago
  Standardization is like a dream to me, and every time it advances I feel ecstatic. However, it's important to note that standardization must not get in the way of change. Unification does not mean that we can't, in a unified manner, continue to upgrade. At this point in time, this is especially critical to keep in mind, as USB-C is physically flawed - it often becomes loose to the point of losing connection, or even falling out entirely, over time spans as short as one year. This is unacceptable.
  • lostlogin 7y ago
    I’m a longtime Mac user. The current MacBook range is probably using the most standard plugs of any MacBook range ever. I miss the old way as a range of plugs is a range of options. Currently things can be plugged in that then don’t work and most things seem to require a dongle.
• GeekyBear 7y ago
  We had the 30 pin dock connector on iPods and iPhones for eleven years and now lightning for eight. Forcing people to throw away most of a decade's worth of already purchased cables and accessories does seem like an odd way to cut down on ewaste given the fact that Apple already switched the chargers themselves to USB-C. I guess my lightning compatible alarm clock/docking station can go live on a nice farm with my long gone 30 pin alarm clock/dock, where they can both run and play.
  • lostlogin 7y ago
    That 30 pin thing was barbaric and probably the least Apple-like thing they ever made.
    • GeekyBear 7y ago
      The original iPod just had a FireWire port. When they decided to make the iPod PC compatible we ended up with a connector that was passing through FireWire, USB, audio, playback controls, and the kitchen sink. After a certain point, they started passing through video as well.
  • boudin 7y ago
    This is a bit of the chicken and egg problem. People will have to throw away accessories because those aren't standards in the first place. Does it still make sense to allow this when there's no technical reason? I think it was a mistake that the 2009 directive was not mandatory, it would have avoided device like the one you mention being vendor locked in the first place.
• dang 7y ago
  Previous thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22033341 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22033341
• jariel 7y ago
  This is point blank the example of 'effete good intentions -> really bad legislation'. It's really quite bad. One of the primary motivations cited relates to waste and recycling - however chargers represent an utterly minuscule component of individual waste. A much better approach from a waste management perspective would be to require that all electronics gear be 'processed' (like batteries). The price of the product 'pre includes' the cost of post-processing, so when it's picked up in its special recycling category, the bit of labour is taken care of. In fact - this could be applied to a wide variety of products. As for 'charging standard' - this can only work if it's led by a really smart body, nimble enough to enable innovation and adaptatio, and it's most certainly not the legislative body. The EU could 'empower' such a working group, but should not be getting into the details. Of course - this legislation will be hacked immediately - everyone will not sell funky multi-adapter chargers with proprietary bits connected to the standard bits. I don't doubt for one second Apple's ability to 'sell you more crap'. Finally - Apple uses mostly fairly standard stuff. I have a Samsung that uses a far-flung USB kind of standard I've never seen elsewhere. Apple has actually been focusing on USB-C pretty well on their own. In summary: these kinds of rulings fundamentally do not belong at the level of the legal draft - they belong in standards bodies. They will not solve the problems they are intended to solve, and will simply accrue more overhead for everyone in the EU. Solving issues of sustainability and recycling etc. should be one elsewhere and likely requires some bigger picture thinking.
• qwerty456127 7y ago
  Although I'm more of an Android guy and and would certainly prefer the world to use just 1 standard, I am to admit the Lightning connector feels like the best I've ever seen. I would love if it could replace all the micro-USB and USB-C.
• PaulDavisThe1st 7y ago
  OK, I'm totally confused. There's 3 parts that I can see to a wired charging situation: 1. the device to be charged 2. something that takes "house" power and does whatever is necessary to convert it for charging purposes 3. a cable between them It seems to me (who doesn't even own a phone, hah, what an idiot) that (2) already exists in the form of things that plugin to a wall socket and offer 1 or more USB A sockets. The does leave room for cable waste, as it only pins down 1 end of the cable. What are we really discussing here?
• _bxg1 7y ago
  I'm not someone who's shy about regulation, but even I think this is totally unnecessary. As an Apple user, I should be the first to complain about their own internal (inexplicable) lack of a standard (Lightning for phones, USB-C for everything else). It's annoying, sure, but it's far from a material burden on my quality of life. Is this really the problem we need to be spending our regulatory energies on in 2020?
  • alt_f4 7y ago
    Every time you are buying a charger, wired headphones or any other iPhone accessory, Apple collects a hefty license fee and you, indirectly, are paying it. Originally, the lightning port was a big improvement over existing tech. Currently though, the only reason the lightning port still exists is because it is a good way for Apple to use their market dominant position to milk consumers. It is not good for consumers, it is also not good for the environment. It is good just for Apple. It is generally the job of the govt to prevent these types of abuses. Is this particular law worded the right way for that? Maybe, maybe not, but it will do the job for this particular case.
    • crooked-v 7y ago
      I suspect a major factor in keeping the Lightning stuff is also because of how intense the complaining would be if they switched it to USB-C. The introduction of Lightning got endless negative PR over all the old 30-pin accessories, and this would be that plus the extra complaining about how they keep "constantly" changing it. For similar reasons, I suspect there's at least some factions in Apple that would be secretly pleased with a mandated switch to USB-C, because then they'd be able to get past it by redirecting any complaints to the government involved.
      • alt_f4 7y ago
        It's not quite an apt comparison because the vast majority of people already own USB-C chargers and accessories, whereas lightning was a brand new thing. Also if Apple were that bothered by complaining, it would not have taken them 5 years and 3+ years of service programs to replace their laptops' butterfly keyboards with regular scissors switch keyboards.
• veeralpatel979 7y ago
  I'm with Apple on this one. Apple has kept working on improving the charging experience for its phones over time. The original iPhone cable, then lightning, then wireless charging. This stifles innovation. Also: doesn't the government have more pressing concerns to worry about? I doubt Apple's lobbying against this for some nefarious reason, like locking users into their proprietary technology.
  • m463 7y ago
    Note that Apple adopted Qi wireless charging. At that point my purchases of lightning cables stopped after I was able to take advantage of it. > I doubt Apple's lobbying against this for some nefarious reason Apple always, always fights for control. It is not nefarious per se, but it is usually at the (literal) expense of their customers.
  • CharlesW 7y ago
    > The original iPhone cable, then lightning, then wireless charging. It's also worth noting that Apple began the move from Lightning to USB-C charging on iOS devices in 2018. The next generation of iPhones won't use Lightning. EDIT: The point is that Apple's been moving to standards-based charging for both macOS and iOS products for some time, making this EU effort even less necessary than it may first appear.
    • FireBeyond 7y ago
      Wuh? They can release the 2018 iPad Pro with USB-C but the late 2019 iPhone 11 still has Lightning. But don't worry, the next will be USB-C? We shall see.
  • markdown 7y ago
    > Also: doesn't the government have more pressing concerns to worry about? Sounds like "why spend money on NASA when we have poverty here on earth?". Governments have a lot of people and a lot of resources and can work on more than one thing at a time. > Apple has kept working on improving the charging experience for its phones over time And it will continue to do so. Except it now has to convince others to adopt its improvements.
• mvanbaak 7y ago
  Its sad how almost all of HN blindly points to apple and states they are the bad guys. With the number of devices out there, its totally more natural that the standard will be lightning instead of micro-usb ir usb-c.
• marta_morena 7y ago
  Wow, this is just yet another display of regulators complete ignorance of technology. They just don't learn. Regulation is about 10-20 years behind the current and their solution is to say: "You have to use this method of doing things" Yeah right, and next year? What do we do next year? Will we just wait for regulators to approve a new way of doing things every 100 million years?
• whatsmyusername 7y ago
  Apple is going to be dropping charging cables so... shrug?
• mrtweetyhack 7y ago
  Apple counters with a monetary donation
• hootbootscoot 7y ago
  APPLAUSE. awesome. Apple is monopolistic and is guilty of deliberate obsolescence of even proprietary standards they helped push, like Firewire. I, for one, and completely tired of them pretending that there is any basis other than greed and the desire to control others. There is certainly a demonstrable lack of technical motivations for the vast majority of their choices, and a standard would presumably take any such concerns into account anyway.
• Agustus 7y ago
  A great way to stifle innovation. Apple has been trying out cables and transfer types over the years (thunderbolt, CD-ROM, USB, wireless) and they do it on the backs of the luxury users, not too far off from what the luxury car makers in testing what to propagate downstream. Apple has set a standard to use their cable format, which works. If you go through the litany of USB-B there were power issues, transfer rates, and a whole host of other items that, while it met the standard, did not work. An example is my Barnes & Noble Nook needing a special cable to work with the PC; it was USB-B, but not using the right transfer and power source rendered cables useless for interface. If anyone can say the roll out of USB-C has been better, even with the “standard” then there have been a number of articles on here that have pointed to fake cables, horrible QC and other items. So, a government agency has taken the draconian step of forcing a standard, one which will be helpful for the European companies that produce phones and people wonder why there is so much money in politics.
  • cosmodisk 7y ago
    It is absolutely not,in any way or form.Charger is only second to a power plug.My TV, router, washing machine and hair dryer use the same type of plug to get electricity from a socket. It's 2020 and yet we argue how it's beneficial to have x types of phones with z types of connections...Come on!
    • npo9 7y ago
      Electrical plugs also haven’t had any real innovations since the ground wire. I hope to see innovations in power/data cables to cellphones more frequently than that! Edit: even if the innovations is just faster data transfer and more power.
      • jakobegger 7y ago
        Electrical plugs have evolved besides adding a ground wire, at least in the EU. The most recent improvement is that most new outlets are now child-save (while staying compatible with legacy plugs). And I think that it‘s a good thing that things don’t change all the time! Our electronic devices that we use regularly need 4 different chargers! I‘m looking forward to the day when it‘s all just going to be USB-C.
• ajuc 7y ago
  Yay for sensible legislation.
  • defnotashton2 7y ago
    It doesn't add enough value to offset the cost of ink it was written in.
• epicgiga 7y ago
  This isn't that unexpected. The EU has tended to this kind of thing for a long time now, overriding its opinions of how things should be "standardised" over the top of liberty. Makes sense if you think about it: given its nature as an institution, its modus operandi is to "standardize" and "make uniform", as a core expression of its sovereignty over what is a highly heterogeneous territory. Fortunately though, Apple will be around much longer than it will.
• SavageBeast 7y ago
  Great, a phone charging semantic designed and mandated by a committee of EU bureaucrats. The jokes just write themselves here. Apple will no doubt bravely respond by removing the charging port completely. Wait until these folks hear about the Qi Standard!
  • vineyardmike 7y ago
    2021: EU forces you to accept a pop-up on every charge to acknowledge you’re use of the charging functionality: explicit opt-in to charging.
• blargmaster33 7y ago
  Communism detected
• jonplackett 7y ago
  I thought all these EU tech regulations might do some good But now when I arrive at any website I have to accept cookie policy, then I have to accept that they will invade my privacy and log my data (or waste half an hour un-checking boxes) and only then can I get down to the business of not signing up to their newsletter and not downloading their app. Maybe this is simpler but tech companies seem to find loopholes faster than they can be closed and we just get stuck in the middle with a crap version of what we had before.
  • kmlx 7y ago
    if you start looking into the CVs of the people that decide these sort of things you will understand why things are the way they are.
  • Lio 7y ago
    Those are dark patterns on the part of the webmasters of those sites though. They want to make it as hard for you to protect your privacy as possible. It’s the same reason they bug you install an app instead of using the web. In an app you have even less control. Notice the number of sites that have an enable all but no disable all button? Thing is if they’re using dark patterns at this stage how can you trust the content of the page you’re trying to view?
  • oxfordmale 7y ago
    The alternative is much worse which every company tracking you with your consent. It was scary to see what data Facebook collects on you if you are logged out. I suspect the EU will introduce new legislation in due course, but of course, they are heavily lobbied too by the tech industry, so it may take some time.,
    • jonplackett 7y ago
      Facebook still are tracking us all though because they’ve just dark-patterned their way around the regulation. So we have the same data sharing, and now I’m annoyed every time I get to a website. I’m not arguing for a return to what we had. Just pointing out that what we have does not work yet. Plus lots of companies are clearly in breach - like when they say ‘by continuing to use this site you agree to the terms and conditions’ this is not active consent. But nothing is done.
• kmlx 7y ago
  oh man, after countless examples of EU regulation gone haywire (cookies, gdpr, vat, link tax, copyright, bananas, diabetics, olive oil refills, epileptic lightbulbs etc etc) one would have thought that the EU bureaucrats would have finally taken a step back and pause a bit. let's just hope Macron's push for an EU refresh come sooner rather than later. because it's not normal looking more towards the UK removing a bunch of these regulations than looking forward to yet another round of EU bureaucrats messing everything up.
• rumori 7y ago
  As a side note: a unified charging port might also mean more usb-c wired headphones instead of disposable bluetooth earbuds. Another win for the environment.
• finchisko 7y ago
  I hope they will think this thoroughly. Because forcing Apple to use USB-C on all iPhones can generate significant waste in the early years of transition to USB-C.
• vr46 7y ago
  My iPad and Mac are usb-c. My iPhone isn’t. We all know this and have to carry two cables or more. However, I already use a common charger as it’s only the charger End that needs to be considered. We could save on cables, however. Still, the irony of Apple complaining about being forced to adopt a standard when they’ve been at the vanguard of aggressively dropping older ports is amusing.
  • kortilla 7y ago
    > Still, the irony of Apple complaining about being forced to adopt a standard when they’ve been at the vanguard of aggressively dropping older ports is amusing. Is it? Nearly every big industry player hates being regulated to make a decision they didn’t make.
• 1023bytes 7y ago
  Not even the wall outlets across the EU are standardised.
  • Al-Khwarizmi 7y ago
    Because they're much more difficult to standardise. They would require each individual user to change all their plugs in their home, which is not even something the average person can do. On the other hand, finding a different connector and cable when you eventually buy a new phone is seamless.
    • anticensor 7y ago
      They should standardise on a fused version of type C/E plug.
• m0zg 7y ago
  Pretty easy: just don't include charger in the box at all. Make Europeans pay for the idiocy of their politicians. Apple, BTW, makes the best power supplies in the industry, as confirmed by many teardowns. If there's anything that needs to be standardized it's the port which is used to charge the device. That port, today, should be USB-C. But the law doesn't do that.
• krebspsycho 7y ago
  Running with the argument that the EU wants the plug that plugs into the phone standardized... what about an Apple Watch that can make LTE calls? Would that be considered under this? Where would you force a company to add a port of any kind to a device that size?
• mtnGoat 7y ago
  I find it terribly amusing that e-waste is one of their arguments. Every Apple device I buy requires a new set of cables. I replace my hardware every the years... Almost as if creating waste wasn't really a problem for them as long as they were profiting.
• williamDafoe 7y ago
  I guess Apple has sold one too many $3 cables for $29.95 in the iStore ... I see companies like Motorola, LG, Kyocera, and Nintendo as more abusive. Sell a few tens of millions of devices ,(not 100M a year) and still, use a custom proprietary charging cable and transformer, soldered together in 1 piece so it hits the dumpster in 1-2Y when the cable frays!
• PunksATawnyFill 7y ago
  The hypocrisy of Apple once again brings down shame. And once again Europeans try to protect consumers, while U.S. “representatives” abet corporations in ripping them off.
• norswap 7y ago
  What a load of bad faith from Apple to argue "against waste". Their latest Macbooks only have USB-C slots, meaning one now needs to discard perfectly good USB-A/HDMI/Thunderbolt (the last one being a port that they were the major force behind) devices, or at least buy adapters. My brother remarked recently: "What's the point of having thin laptops, if you have to carry a book-size hub with you." (Which is also the reason people might be tempted to wastefully discard USB-A peripherals in favour of USB-C alternatives.)
• elchupanebre 7y ago
  EU demands common charger standard but does not require a specific type of charger, right? It does not prescribe USB-C. So, what prevents Apple from offering lightning connector as a common EU standard? :) Problem solved!