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At this point, I absolutely hate when people use Apple Maps to find our community college. Apple just plain refuses to acknowledge the town we are located in e

At this point, I absolutely hate when people use Apple Maps to find our community college. Apple just plain refuses to acknowledge the town we are located in exists. It also ignores all businesses on the reservation and points to the local Coca-Cola bottling location as the closest grocery store. I've filed bugs going back years and no changes. Privacy and UI cannot overcome really poor data.

tclancy 7y ago
Is this still true after the update?
- protomyth 7y ago
  Yep
- koolba 7y ago
  Why would you expect a UI update to change the underlying server data?
  - jolux 7y ago
    It's not just a UI update, they went through and captured all the data themselves as well so they won't have to supplement with TomTom anymore.
  - BoorishBears 7y ago
    It's not just a UI update, it's brand new maps with completely revamped datasets.
  - wlesieutre 7y ago
    "More precise addresses" sounds deeper than a UI update.
  - jamesgeck0 7y ago
    Because the website says that the map data has been updated as well.
  - gshulegaard 7y ago
    Why do you think it was just a UI update? The headline from the article: > New Apple Maps Designed with Better Road Coverage and Pedestrian Data, More Precise Addresses, and Detailed Land Cover As well as many of the features highlighted by the article seems to allude to new data. - Look Around - Real-time transit information - Flight status - Indoor Maps - Flyover (3D city scapes) At the very least it sounds like they have added a whole bunch of data sources. They also claim that they have better road and pedestrian coverage...but offer no specifics. So whether these changes produce net "better" data foundation is unclear, but it sounds to me like more than just a visual update.
  - nwsm 7y ago
    Why would you expect only a UI update to be relevant?
toomuchtodo 7y ago
Have you tried emailing tcook at apple’s domain to get executive escalation team support? Not that that should be necessary of course, just exhausting all options for remediation.
- protomyth 7y ago
  No, I haven't. I'm saving my one shot at that if the we cannot get Swift Curriculum offered. https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2017/08/leading-us-community-colleges-adding-swift-curriculum/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2017/08/leading-us-community-...
  - handedness 7y ago
    I fail to see the connection, but every single Apple Maps correction I've submitted has been applied.
    - protomyth 7y ago
      I reported it on the Apple Maps site and filed a bug as a developer. I don't want to send stuff to the Apple executives when I might really need to get noticed for something that will really help the student's future.
      - handedness 7y ago
        Thanks, that makes more sense. Still, I would be surprised if any continuity between the two requests became a factor. Even if it did, it would show you as someone looking out for students at a community college, something which would likely elevate the importance of the request. A bunch of potentially snarky students mocking Apple Maps/Apple Inc. on social media seems like a force multiplier that would work in your favor.
- dualboot 7y ago
  I still email Steve...
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
lucb1e 7y ago
There are so many issues like this. People complain about TomTom maps never being updated in navigation systems because it's licensed, Apple Maps being crappy (or in this case, wrong), even Google Maps is often slow in updating (e.g. the tunnel in Maastricht took some time after it opened, which was known and announced years ahead) and very incomplete in terms of footpaths and trails. The USA is probably the worst example, but globally, in the majority of places (geographically), OpenStreetMap does better at all of this: it's more complete and more up to date. Pick a random point on earth on land, compare TomTom, Bing, Google, and OSM. Repeat 50 times. I did this and OSM was a very clear winner (it's still on my todo list to make a blog post with visuals, which is quite a bit more work than just doing it for myself).
- protomyth 7y ago
  Wow, OpenStreetMaps is worse which makes a bit of sense. Is there a good (step-by-step) tutorial on submitting data to OSM. I get the feeling if I can get the land grants people to submit their data it might make things a bit better.
  - monknomo 7y ago
    https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Beginners%27_guide https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Beginners%27_guide It's pretty easy, you just make an account, pick an editor and start making outlines and tagging stuff
  - aendruk 7y ago
    For a well-defined project like this, I recommend getting in touch with people in the OSM US Slack workspace [0] for advice on possible data sources, mapping techniques, prior/duplicate efforts, etc. [0]: https://osmus-slack.herokuapp.com/ https://osmus-slack.herokuapp.com/
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - rmc 7y ago
    Everyone is welcome to edit OSM! Be careful about bulk uploading a pile of data you get. The licence has to be OK, and merging it into the existing OSM data can be pretty complicated. Imports are not suitable for beginners.
iiiggglll 7y ago
Wow, what city is this? > I've filed bugs Was that using Radar? Did you try using the "Report an Issue" UI within the Maps app itself?
- reaperducer 7y ago
  Wow, what city is this? Not a city. He notes this is on a reservation. Was that using Radar? Did you try using the "Report an Issue" UI within the Maps app itself? I've given up filing map bug reports for reservations. There's simply too many. It would be a full-time job for ten people to list all of the missing/wrong places in both Apple and Google maps. There are vast areas of the United States where paper maps are still far better. Indian reservations are among those. Part of it is the fault of history. Many places on reservations don't have street addresses, or sometimes even streets. But that doesn't mean they aren't places of commerce, community, or otherwise vital to the lives of thousands of people. Other times, though, there are towns and businesses on main or even state highways that don't exist on Google or Apple Maps at all. I think a big part of the problem is that Google and Apple rely too heavily on social media and review sites for their geographic information. Those don't help when you're mapping an area with limited internet connectivity and zero cell service. I'd quit my job to work for Apple mapping the chapter houses, trading posts, and other places on America's reservations. One person could only make a small dent, but every drop helps.
  - protomyth 7y ago
    Not a city. He notes this is on a reservation. I guess city is a bit grand, but there are towns with actual zip codes on reservations. Part of it is the fault of history. Many places on reservations don't have street addresses, or sometimes even streets. But that doesn't mean they aren't places of commerce, community, or otherwise vital to the lives of thousands of people. The whole 911 thing started forcing road names and addresses. The bigger problem is that what we have for an address (as told to us by one of the utility companies) is different than whatever source Apple is using. Strangely, Google figured out quite a bit more of it.
zweep 7y ago
And that’s why the “Hoover up all the data” approach will win. Google can snoop on everyone’s emails and locations and transaction receipts and find the location and names of businesses automatically, and even their opening hours.
slavik81 7y ago
Google has these sorts of problems too. It fails at correctly parsing examples straight out of the Canada Post Addressing Guidelines. [1] Put in "10-123 Main St, Montreal QC H3Z 2Y7" into Google Maps and it will take you to "10 Main St, Montreal QC H3Z 5X3" Or, rather, it would if that was a real address. The correct building would be to "123 Main St, Montreal QC H3Z 2Y7". [1]: https://www.canadapost.ca/tools/pg/manual/PGaddress-e.asp?ecid=murl10006450 https://www.canadapost.ca/tools/pg/manual/PGaddress-e.asp?ec...
- jeromegv 7y ago
  Yeah, I copy pasted a postal address into Waze a few months ago. Little did I know! Waze sent me to the wrong spot and ignored the Canadian convention. Thought this was an odd mistake but now that you say it, i'll avoid it entirely.

tclancy 7y ago

Is this still true after the update?

protomyth 7y ago
Yep
koolba 7y ago
Why would you expect a UI update to change the underlying server data?
- jolux 7y ago
  It's not just a UI update, they went through and captured all the data themselves as well so they won't have to supplement with TomTom anymore.
- BoorishBears 7y ago
  It's not just a UI update, it's brand new maps with completely revamped datasets.
- wlesieutre 7y ago
  "More precise addresses" sounds deeper than a UI update.
- jamesgeck0 7y ago
  Because the website says that the map data has been updated as well.
- gshulegaard 7y ago
  Why do you think it was just a UI update? The headline from the article: > New Apple Maps Designed with Better Road Coverage and Pedestrian Data, More Precise Addresses, and Detailed Land Cover As well as many of the features highlighted by the article seems to allude to new data. - Look Around - Real-time transit information - Flight status - Indoor Maps - Flyover (3D city scapes) At the very least it sounds like they have added a whole bunch of data sources. They also claim that they have better road and pedestrian coverage...but offer no specifics. So whether these changes produce net "better" data foundation is unclear, but it sounds to me like more than just a visual update.
- nwsm 7y ago
  Why would you expect only a UI update to be relevant?

toomuchtodo 7y ago

Have you tried emailing tcook at apple’s domain to get executive escalation team support? Not that that should be necessary of course, just exhausting all options for remediation.

protomyth 7y ago
No, I haven't. I'm saving my one shot at that if the we cannot get Swift Curriculum offered. https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2017/08/leading-us-community-colleges-adding-swift-curriculum/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2017/08/leading-us-community-...
- handedness 7y ago
  I fail to see the connection, but every single Apple Maps correction I've submitted has been applied.
  - protomyth 7y ago
    I reported it on the Apple Maps site and filed a bug as a developer. I don't want to send stuff to the Apple executives when I might really need to get noticed for something that will really help the student's future.
    - handedness 7y ago
      Thanks, that makes more sense. Still, I would be surprised if any continuity between the two requests became a factor. Even if it did, it would show you as someone looking out for students at a community college, something which would likely elevate the importance of the request. A bunch of potentially snarky students mocking Apple Maps/Apple Inc. on social media seems like a force multiplier that would work in your favor.
dualboot 7y ago
I still email Steve...

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

lucb1e 7y ago

There are so many issues like this. People complain about TomTom maps never being updated in navigation systems because it's licensed, Apple Maps being crappy (or in this case, wrong), even Google Maps is often slow in updating (e.g. the tunnel in Maastricht took some time after it opened, which was known and announced years ahead) and very incomplete in terms of footpaths and trails. The USA is probably the worst example, but globally, in the majority of places (geographically), OpenStreetMap does better at all of this: it's more complete and more up to date. Pick a random point on earth on land, compare TomTom, Bing, Google, and OSM. Repeat 50 times. I did this and OSM was a very clear winner (it's still on my todo list to make a blog post with visuals, which is quite a bit more work than just doing it for myself).

protomyth 7y ago
Wow, OpenStreetMaps is worse which makes a bit of sense. Is there a good (step-by-step) tutorial on submitting data to OSM. I get the feeling if I can get the land grants people to submit their data it might make things a bit better.
- monknomo 7y ago
  https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Beginners%27_guide https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Beginners%27_guide It's pretty easy, you just make an account, pick an editor and start making outlines and tagging stuff
- aendruk 7y ago
  For a well-defined project like this, I recommend getting in touch with people in the OSM US Slack workspace [0] for advice on possible data sources, mapping techniques, prior/duplicate efforts, etc. [0]: https://osmus-slack.herokuapp.com/ https://osmus-slack.herokuapp.com/
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- rmc 7y ago
  Everyone is welcome to edit OSM! Be careful about bulk uploading a pile of data you get. The licence has to be OK, and merging it into the existing OSM data can be pretty complicated. Imports are not suitable for beginners.

iiiggglll 7y ago

Wow, what city is this? > I've filed bugs Was that using Radar? Did you try using the "Report an Issue" UI within the Maps app itself?

reaperducer 7y ago
Wow, what city is this? Not a city. He notes this is on a reservation. Was that using Radar? Did you try using the "Report an Issue" UI within the Maps app itself? I've given up filing map bug reports for reservations. There's simply too many. It would be a full-time job for ten people to list all of the missing/wrong places in both Apple and Google maps. There are vast areas of the United States where paper maps are still far better. Indian reservations are among those. Part of it is the fault of history. Many places on reservations don't have street addresses, or sometimes even streets. But that doesn't mean they aren't places of commerce, community, or otherwise vital to the lives of thousands of people. Other times, though, there are towns and businesses on main or even state highways that don't exist on Google or Apple Maps at all. I think a big part of the problem is that Google and Apple rely too heavily on social media and review sites for their geographic information. Those don't help when you're mapping an area with limited internet connectivity and zero cell service. I'd quit my job to work for Apple mapping the chapter houses, trading posts, and other places on America's reservations. One person could only make a small dent, but every drop helps.
- protomyth 7y ago
  Not a city. He notes this is on a reservation. I guess city is a bit grand, but there are towns with actual zip codes on reservations. Part of it is the fault of history. Many places on reservations don't have street addresses, or sometimes even streets. But that doesn't mean they aren't places of commerce, community, or otherwise vital to the lives of thousands of people. The whole 911 thing started forcing road names and addresses. The bigger problem is that what we have for an address (as told to us by one of the utility companies) is different than whatever source Apple is using. Strangely, Google figured out quite a bit more of it.

zweep 7y ago

And that’s why the “Hoover up all the data” approach will win. Google can snoop on everyone’s emails and locations and transaction receipts and find the location and names of businesses automatically, and even their opening hours.

slavik81 7y ago

Google has these sorts of problems too. It fails at correctly parsing examples straight out of the Canada Post Addressing Guidelines. [1] Put in "10-123 Main St, Montreal QC H3Z 2Y7" into Google Maps and it will take you to "10 Main St, Montreal QC H3Z 5X3" Or, rather, it would if that was a real address. The correct building would be to "123 Main St, Montreal QC H3Z 2Y7". [1]: https://www.canadapost.ca/tools/pg/manual/PGaddress-e.asp?ecid=murl10006450 https://www.canadapost.ca/tools/pg/manual/PGaddress-e.asp?ec...

jeromegv 7y ago
Yeah, I copy pasted a postal address into Waze a few months ago. Little did I know! Waze sent me to the wrong spot and ignored the Canadian convention. Thought this was an odd mistake but now that you say it, i'll avoid it entirely.