7 ms·

Nokia Plan B

317 points by wybo 16y ago

latch 16y ago
I know they are saying it's coming soon, but this is really missing 9 bios. You have a definitive plan for what you'll do if elected to the Board of Directors, which is a great start. But writing an open letter, asking for something so serious, without a paragraph-long bio on each one of you is crazies in my book.
- kooshball 16y ago
  I agree. If they can get a major shareholder as even a figurehead, it would add a lot more credibility over "9 young shareholders", which means they have at least 1 share each.
  - mryall 16y ago
    Yeah, in which case they'd probably be better to sell the shares than attempt to grab the helm of a sinking ship.
  - fleitz 16y ago
    No kidding, if they could actually head a company like Nokia and create a superior UX then why not go shop your bios around SV looking for some VC to make a mobile OS. Or go shop your resume at Apple / Google / Microsoft. WinPhone 7 is light years ahead of anything I've seen from Nokia. Their naivety is betrayed when the talk about developing technology in house and then talk about Qt. If Nokia could build their own GUI toolkit they'd have no use for Qt.
    - bad_user 16y ago
      They already own Qt and all intellectual property associated, so why not use it? It's also a cross-platform toolkit with a clean interface and lots of mind-share. The whole MeeGo operating system is using bits and pieces from the Linux ecosystem. There's nothing wrong with that. The difference between them using MeeGo and them using Android or WinMo 7, is that with MeeGo they have complete control, as it's their platform. WinPhone 7 is light years ahead of anything I've seen from Nokia This statement doesn't hold water. I've tried WinMo 7, and it is decent, but all I could say about it was the same as for Windows 7 ... it is not that bad, but it's late, and limited, and those animations are causing me nausea, and tell me why should I choose a Windows again when I tried so hard to get rid of it the last time? Also, speaking as a developer, porting games from iOS / Android to WinMo 7 is not really possible without a 100% complete rewrite. And what happens when they completely break backwards compatibility again for WinMo 8, like they did with 7? Now you've got 3 problems.
      - fleitz 16y ago
        Wouldn't disagree with you on porting. Backwards compat w/ WinMo 8? You rewrite your apps and get to sell them again :) Nokia has also switched from Symbian to MeeGo so what's to stop them from breaking compat? The point of directing a public company is to do so with the best interests of the shareholders, I could be wrong but I have a feeling the majority of the shareholders of Nokia would be happier with Elops plan than the plan of these guys.
- fady 16y ago
  I was looking for the bio's myself - It would make a big difference, especially for people who do not know the whole Nokia story.
dreaming 16y ago
Assuming this is genuine, it is too little too late. Nokia needed someone to come and say this before the decided to jump ship. Its staggering to think of how many resources nokia have, and how little and slowly they've innovated. Nokia has been falling behind for a long time. One thing I always found disheartening was their desire to compete against themselves, and ignore others, as illustrated by them releasing an older version of symbian for their business phones, while using the new symbian for their media phones, but it seemed there was no place to get 'the best' nokia. It was always a choice, but one that didn't seem to have an easily identifiable consumer flagship. Just N's and E's and everything in between.
- dangero 16y ago
  Right. It's totally too little too late. Getting a billion dollars from Microsoft and using their ecosystem may be their best option at this point to get in the game again. Otherwise, they have too much ground to catch up in too little time.
  - Bud 16y ago
    Why do you think that MS will help? Microsoft has no established "ecosystem"; not in the mobile phone world, at least. How does allying yourself with the aspirational #3 player in a two-player market help you catch up?
    - lallysingh 16y ago
      MS is #4. iOS, Android, and RIM.
      - jawee 16y ago
        Plus they´re also competing with WebOS once HP gets them back in the market, which is arguably a superior product on a technical front.
        lallysingh 16y ago
cloudwalking 16y ago
I don't think smartphones can win without apps, and the OS market is getting pretty saturated. If iOS, Android, WebOS, and WP7 all have more users, when am I ever going to get around to writing MeeGo apps?
- cookiecaper 16y ago
  MeeGo, at least last I knew, follows in the vein of Maemo and doesn't need special apps written for it, it can run the same software as any Linux userland. Perhaps this has changed recently but I don't think it has. You can unify most of the codebase in .NET probably; use MonoTouch and MonoDroid for iOS and Android, Mono for Meego, and MS's included CLR on WP7. That only leaves webOS.
  - grav1tas 16y ago
    Even if that were the case, you still have to package your app for distribution. The app store model probably makes this easier to do since you don't have to develop a framework for pushing your apps along with any updates you have down the road. Naturally there are libraries for this, but you still have to mess with them, and maintain deployment stuff on your own end.
  - ajg1977 16y ago
    it doesn't need special apps written for it, it can run the same software as any Linux userland This type of fundamental failure to understand the consumer space is exactly what's driving Nokia into the ground. Consumers don't give a fig what userland your device is compatible with. Consumers want a super-simple way of finding interesting apps, putting them on their phone, and having them look good and run problem free. So yes, you really do need special apps.
    - cookiecaper 16y ago
      I didn't say consumers cared. I am annoyed to see people upvoting you since you are replying to something I didn't say or attempt to say. The grandparent said developers would have a difficult time keeping up, and I was replying to that. If you have a decent consumer-facing Linux application, it is easy to port it to Meego since it's basically the same thing, with maybe a few extra integration hooks to add in. Especially if the app uses Qt anyway. This, indeed, is a positive for developers, which is what the OP addressed. It trickles down to consumers, too -- if I can run normal programs with few or no changes on my phone, I'll have a lot more choices that already exist available to me. Also, as I stated, a normal Linux userland means normal Linux applications and things work -- you can use Mono or Wine if you want to run a Windows or .NET application.
cookiecaper 16y ago
Supposing they did get elected, I would expect they would cost Nokia a lot of money, possibly ultimately bankrupting the company, from litigation MS would inevitably bring and probably win. It would be a huge embarrassment to WP7 and MS if Nokia backed out, and if there's any way MS can swing damages for that kind of thing given their contract with Nokia, and I'm sure there is, they will definitely do so. I think that the ship has sailed and they're stuck with WP7 for the term of the exclusivity arrangement. If these guys want to make Meego the dominant smartphone platform, they're going to have to do it with something besides Nokia.
- rbanffy 16y ago
  > litigation MS would inevitably bring and probably win Unless they can convince a judge Elop acted on bad faith against the best interests of the company and favoring his previous corporate master. That could make the Microsoft executives who helped broker the deal accessories to this. I am not sure the first part is that hard to sell to a judge.
  - jarek 16y ago
    On the upside, tear up a contract here, a strategic partnership there, and no one would ever want to do business with them again.
    - varjag 16y ago
      Well Elop just dumped Intel the same way, so I guess it's never a problem.
    - rbanffy 16y ago
      I would not want to do business with anyone who proposes me a partnership like this.
gacba 16y ago
I give Nokia Plan B a solid D- for too little too late. MeeGo got a horrible reception today by Intel (http://www.slashgear.com/meego-preview-at-mwc-2011-disappoints-14133583/ http://www.slashgear.com/meego-preview-at-mwc-2011-disappoin...) and it's obvious why Nokia abandoned it at this point, even for a bad choice like Win Mobile 7...what other choice did they have? Symbian? Bleeding market share like gutted cow. Android? Can't differentiate in that space. So to hear these 9 disgruntled folks say they're going to stick with a bad plan and make it happen sounds like lunacy to me.
- SwellJoe 16y ago
  "Android? Can't differentiate in that space." I've yet to see an explanation for any way in which they can differentiate on WP7, that they couldn't do better and more easily on Android. Say what you will about Open Source development, but when it comes to differentiation, there's simply no way to beat it...look at the variety of Linux distributions, for an example of differentiation gone wild.
  - jsz0 16y ago
    Out of the gate WM7 is quite different from Android or iOS so there's that. I think maybe the bigger implied message here is that Nokia was not confident in their own software development teams to handle this transition. Look at what they built on top of MeeGo -- it's not very impressive. Would having Android underneath there make any real difference? I doubt it. They basically want to outsource their OS development.
    - SwellJoe 16y ago
      "Out of the gate WM7 is quite different from Android or iOS so there's that." That's only really a differentiator because no one wants Windows phones, so there aren't as many in the hands of users. I'm not sure that's the kind of difference Nokia needs right now. That's just lack of familiarity...not really a positive differentiation.
    - rst 16y ago
      Yes, but that's not the question. The question is, "how different is a Nokia WP7 phone from, say, one from Samsung or HTC?" If WP7 is a success, then by the time Nokia ships (late 2011 at the earliest), they will be entrants in a crowded field --- and so far, Microsoft is requiring most WP7 phones to be near-lookalikes, to get consistency of user experience across the platform. (Of course, part of the deal here may be that Nokia gets to differentiate their products in a way that nobody else does --- but if it is, then the other vendors may be ticked in a way that causes long-term problems for the platform as a whole. Contrast to Android, where vendors have complete freedom to reskin it right now.)
spiralganglion 16y ago
I don't own any shares in Nokia, I have never nor likely will ever own a Nokia phone, and I don't have any real insight into the nuances of the situation. But as an avid spectator of the evolving mobile platform "war", this sort of coup d'état would be amazing to witness from the sidelines, no matter the outcome. Therefore, and for no greater reason, I really hope this goes through.
- WiseWeasel 16y ago
  I think it's kinda sad. The marketplace shrank with this development, and a major powerhouse in mobile device development has been transformed into a commodity OEM. Nokia has suddenly been emptied of all of its unique value to consumers, leaving only an irrelevant shell of a brand without a vision or purpose.
ajg1977 16y ago
Plan B: Fire a couple of execs and keep following the strategy that got us to this point.
- pyre 16y ago
  Well, Plan A seems to be hitching their wagon to the horse that's seemingly in last place by a large margin. So comparatively, Plan B isn't that bad.
  - keithwarren 16y ago
    Well, Plan A seems to be hitching their wagon to the richest and most powerful software company in the world who has pledged to give billions of dollars plus rights to customize a modern mobile operating system. So comparatively, Plan B is just sour grapes.
    - rbanffy 16y ago
      > Plan A seems to be hitching their wagon to the richest and most powerful software company in the world ... the same company that has been trying for more than a decade to produce a marginally adequate phone experience and has been consistently failing, with great comedic value, in each and every attempt to challenge whoever is the market leader at a given point. Nokia, who was the leader of this market on more than one occasion, is hitching their wagon to a goldfish who seemingly can't learn from past experience. Sadly, this Plan B has zero chances of flying. The board is on Elop's side because they are betting Nokia is doomed and the billions Microsoft will inject will give them both time and some added value when they gut the company to sell its parts a couple years from now. Nokia is gone. We'd better get used to it.
      - nl 16y ago
        Remember the old adage about Microsoft: "It take them 3 god to get something right"? (1) Windows Mobile, (2) Kin, (3) WinMo7 Have you used WinMo7? It's really nice (and this from an Android fan). I'm not sure it will save Nokia, but read a few reviews of WinMo7 ans go and have a play before you dismiss it entirely. (Edit: WinMo7's biggest problem is it's name. "Windows" is a huge liability because everyone associates it with desktop windows even though it shares no common code at all)
johnrob 16y ago
MeeGo smartphones and tablet devices will offer overwhelmingly superior experiences and applications than iOS and Android based competitor products That is one bold statement. I don't know if I'd bet the company's success on a claim like that.
- ra 16y ago
  That is a bold statement, but I think MeeGo would be a better bet for Nokia. Maintain ownership and control of the software layer of the Nokia products. Software is where innovation, differentiation and shareholder value can most easily be created. This IMHO is undeniable.
  - PakG1 16y ago
    I don't think anyone disagrees on that point. But I see a lot of comments across the web (and here on HN) that people agree Nokia's strength is hardware, not software. If they don't have strength in software, can they really execute innovation, differentiation, and shareholder value at the software level? Elop's clearly shown where he stands on that thought with his burning platform memo. And I think the majority of people (from what I've seen from anecdotal evidence) agree with Elop.
    - nas 16y ago
      Yeah, what are the chances they would come out with a compelling smartphone software platform in the next few months? It's hard to do good work with flames around you. ;-) Maybe MeeGo would be great but that's certainly unclear at this point. They had years to come out with compelling software and they did not deliver. Essentially these guys are asking for more time. At this point the steamroller that is Android is up to speed. I don't see how MeeGo is going to make inroads anymore unless it is drastically better. Even though WP7 is actually shipping, it has a similar problem. IMHO, it has to be quite a bit better than Android in order to gain much market share.
  - rodh257 16y ago
    yes but it's something they've been failing at for years. People buy their phones (around the world) because they make the best hardware, but they're losing ground to others who can make much better software.
deleted 16y ago
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pjy04 16y ago
I like their developer plan. Focus on two areas of main development and eliminate a lot of the waste on the PM/Manager level.
elithrar 16y ago
I think a couple of things are obvious, from knowing some Nokia employees: a) These 9 are young, and likely Finns — who are generally proud people and who are guarded against outsiders (like Elop) b) They are software developers. Most of their Plan B focuses heavily on Meego and keeping development and R&D in-house. With Meego 'out' (or close to it) and WP7 in, software development resources at Nokia are likely to be slashed, and so of course they'd want to contest the decision. The biggest problem I have with their plan though, is this: > Return the company to a strategy that seeks high growth and high profit margins through innovation and overwhelmingly superior products with unrivaled user experience. Return? Nokia & Symbian might sell a ton of phones in the global market, but they certainly haven't had high margins nor growth over the last few years. They can't 'return' to the way things were, because that strategy is no longer viable in today's market. To carry on as if Apple & Google aren't kicking your ass is a sure-fire way to lose everything.
oomkiller 16y ago
Looks like a good start, but going with MeeGo is a fail in my book. Intel and Nokia should throw their weight behind Android and focus on making the best, fastest Android phone, with better features than anyone else.
Xpirate 16y ago
I got sort of an open question: Is there a platform independent API for development for WP7, iPhone and Android? It'd be great to write for one idealized target and have it run on all three ... or more if they make serious inroads.
- mquander 16y ago
  Yes, it's called HTML5 and Javascript. (Seriously.)
  - artsrc 16y ago
    We need a common layer over the top of the various hardware (GPS, accelerometer) access API. I am sure something like jQuery can do that.
  - edtechdev 16y ago
    yeah see phonegap or titanium appcelerator (convert html5/javascript to a mobile app, with access to stuff like the camera, contacts, sensors) also check out jquery mobile, sencha touch, cappuccino...
  - rbanffy 16y ago
    And it also runs on WebOS.
  - drdaeman 16y ago
    I doubt. How much of HTML5 features WP7 really supports? I've heard that: > The browser for Windows Phone 7.0 is based on IE 7.0, which does not support HTML 5 (in desktop terms HTML 5 support is part of IE9, which is currently under development). (http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en/windowsphone7series/thread/4233a7b5-6b70-4318-96f1-6683e2c38c03 http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en/windowsphone7seri...)
mjfern 16y ago
I think the authors are underestimating the challenges of commercializing and then gaining market share with the MeeGo platform. First, there is a question of development and time to market. By the time Nokia launches MeeGo and handsets, Android, iOS, and others (WP7, RIM, Palm) will be further entrenched in the market (e.g., market share, brand, hardware partners). Second, there is the fundamental issue that succeeding with MeeGo hinges not only on the OS but also on a thriving application market. Because of the application markets, there are strong network effects with mobile platforms. These network effects make it very difficult for a new platform to break into the space. To complement investments in MeeGo and WP7 for the smartphone market and Symbian for the feature phone market, Nokia should immediately invest in an Android strategy as a fail-safe. I understand this conflicts with Nokia's historical strategy of controlling both software and hardware, but it's quite possible that Android will eventually emerge as the winner-take-all platform in smartphones, aside from Apple/iOS and several niche platforms. If this were to happen, Nokia's singular bet on MeeGo (or WP7) may destabilize the entire company. In short, I propose that Nokia pursue a four-pronged strategy, pushing forward with MeeGo, WP7, Symbian, and Android -- Symbian for feature phones, which still account for roughly 80% of the worldwide mobile phone market, and MeeGo, WP7, and Android for the smartphone market. As uncertainty is reduced over time regarding 1) the potential of each of the smartphone platforms and 2) the pace at which geographic markets are shifting away from feature phones to smartphones, Nokia can appropriately adjust its investments. By making investments in each area, and adjusting the relative amounts over time, Nokia can better ensure its survival and prosperity despite the quickly evolving mobile phone market.
- theoj 16y ago
  That seems like a lot of options to explore at once, and could be quite expensive from an R&D and product development standpoint, while at the same time failing to capitalize on large returns to scale. Rather than a 4-pronged strategy I'd rather see 2 pronged strategy. Keep Android, dump WP7 (it's a laggard and Ballmer's MS seems incapable of generating any big wins) and select one of either MeeGo or Symbian.
cageface 16y ago
Interesting that they see outsourcing and distributed development as bureaucratic and inefficient. I wonder if this sentiment is becoming more common in the industry.
harshaw 16y ago
I did a bunch of work with Nokia back when I was working at Orange. We had a project to build push to talk software on Series 60 phones. Besides the idea that push to talk is a horrible idea, my job was to work with Nokia to make sure the software worked properly. We had some lower level software from our hardware provider (Kodiak Networks) and some UI code that we had built ourselves. As these projects tend to go, things didn't go well. due to various issues in the Nokia closed source software layer there were a number of bugs we (Orange & Kodiak) couldn't fix. We decided to fly to Tampere (one of Nokia's R&D locations) to fix the problem. Tampere is a lovely place to eat Reindeer. However, not once did I meet an engineer who could get shit done. Not once - Nokia never paired us with a serious developer who could even attempt to fix issues in their code. They surrounded us with product manager wankers and threw in a 22 year old engineer who wasn't able to make much progress debugging the problem. The Kodiak engineer was all ready to attack the problem with a dev board and a JTAG but no one would let us in the lab. What a clusterfck. Apparently a good bit of the S60 development wasn't even done in Tampere (or Finland). I think it might have been done in Japan. I think these sort of issues are what the author of the article alluded to regarding distributed development teams. Perhaps I only saw a small slice of the Nokia culture. But it was really* bad. I'm glad the guys behind nokiaplanb.com are passionate about fixing Nokia. Much as I think the M$ alliance is a waste of time, I admire Elop's bold actions. I can't see continued development of MeeGo as useful. What I have seen to date has been unimpressive and late. Additionally -why not just use Android as the base OS and innovate on top of it?
- Murkin 16y ago
  To counter point, 5 years back when our company sold our software product to Nokia, I flew to Finland to talk about architecture and implementation. Ended up giving a lecture to 8 (+2 PMs) Nokia engineers, many of whom asked the most intelligent and domain relevant questions I heard so far. (3 even asked me to stay after the lecture and go over detail). Things got done
  - harshaw 16y ago
    good :) No doubt once you are plugged in their engineering talent is top notch.
beefman 16y ago
Increase the lifespan of Symbian to a minimum of 5 years Glad you're not going to any shareholder meetings of companies I own shares in...
artsrc 16y ago
I have an idea, startups. Have some former Nokia lead engineers and managers, start working on that plan. Have some other managers and engineers work on the Android plan. Have some others compete with Nokia to make better WP7 phones. Gets rid of 100 layers of management, etc.
ashr 16y ago
Plan B? Not Really. More like a wish-list.
teyc 16y ago
young chaps calling for a revolution. Not even listing credentials. This is not going any where.
Kilimanjaro 16y ago
I agree with all points, except one, spend half resources in meego and the other half in android, just to be sure.
jfm3 16y ago
Not all top talent is young...
kongqiu 16y ago
Long ago (~2002) when I lived in Beijing, a vendor at the city's Silk Market had Nokia-brand socks on offer. I suspected they were fakes. The Marlboro-brand shirts were decent, though...
billbub 16y ago
Wow! Who are these guys? What do they know about building a mobile ecosystem? Young how young? Looks to me like a bunch of kids who are scared to put their name out ..
mambodog 16y ago
I think their biggest challenge with going down the MeeGo route would be acquiring the kind of App ecosystem that iOS and Android have. I reckon their best bet would be to implement something like Alien Dalvik[1] to allow very easy porting of existing Android apps to MeeGo, and make their 'app store' as seamlessly alike to iOS and Android's (including working with top app developers to encourage them to bring over the most desirable apps). Once they can be seen as having the same big name apps as the other two, I think MeeGo has much more of a chance of being competitive, rather than being a 'third world country' of a platform. [1] http://www.allaboutmeego.com/news/item/12571_Alien_Dalvik_hopes_to_bring_An.php http://www.allaboutmeego.com/news/item/12571_Alien_Dalvik_ho...
- vegas 16y ago
  Meego's got a potential Dalvik port, though I don't think that will quite give it the Android Market, it's a start.
- ponzi 16y ago
  While that is certainly true, MeeGo is much more of a linux system than android is, and has great potential to attract hackers. The same tools and libraries can be used to develop for MeeGo, as is used in any (desktop) linux distribution. My point is, there is a lot of developers out there that already know how to develop for MeeGo. Not a proprietary but only very lightly platform specific tool chain is needed.
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olalonde 16y ago
Would it really be possible to cancel the deal without getting sued by Microsoft?
c141charlie 16y ago
We are seeing the beginning of the commoditization of the smart phone industry. Smart phones will become ubiquitous and intense competition among handset manufacturers will erode profit margins. While I admire the passion that fueled this letter, their goal to "offer overwhelmingly superior experiences" seems foolishly optimistic. How will Nokia differentiate from the plethora of Android derivatives, iOS, WP7, Web OS, and Blackberry?
- spitfire 16y ago
  Isn't that what android is all about? Commoditizing the market, and acclimatizing users to sophisticated capabilities (Like handheld search!). I'm not a fan of microsoft, but I am a fan of competition. I kind of like this battle that's warming up here.
jodrellblank 16y ago
If they had a clue based on modern software practices, they would make it easy to support them. From the bottom of the AGM questions page: Who has the right to participate in the AGM 2011 and what is the last day to buy shares if I want the right to attend and vote in the AGM? Each shareholder, who is registered on April 19, 2011 in the Register of Shareholders of the Company, has the right to participate in the Annual General Meeting. A shareholder, whose shares are registered on his/her Finnish book-entry account, is registered in the Register of Shareholders of the Company. A shareholder, who wishes to participate in the Annual General Meeting, may register for the Meeting by giving a prior notice of participation no later than on April 27, 2011 at 4:00 p.m. (Finnish time) by which time the registration needs to arrive in the Company. - http://www.nokia.com/agm/2011/in-english/questions-and-answers http://www.nokia.com/agm/2011/in-english/questions-and-answe... Although their plan is not in the list of proposals. How does it work? 1 vote per share or 1 per shareholder? Can I buy 1 share (which stock name on which exchange?) and support them? If not, and only big shareholders count, why the twitter popularity campaign? What specific goal(s) do they have (how many people, doing what?)
haguhagu 16y ago
Their statement sounds like ones that come out of politicians. That can only end well... I was watching some meego videos on youtube, it does not look that impressive and launching the phone usually takes a full minute. Whats up with that. Its an early build i guess, but as software ages, it generally gets more bloated meaning even slower.
- drdaeman 16y ago
  > and launching the phone usually takes a full minute If boot time is tolerable (i.e. it takes not more than a minute) this is one of the last things developers should care about. Users reboot the phone very infrequently, like, once in a while, when they completely forget to charge it and the power goes off. However, when phone is booted, it should run as smoothly as possible. This is the one thing I dislike in Maemo 5 - I managed to make my N900 run quite slow (sure, I've tried lots of the unstable apps from devel-extra so it's mostly my fault).
nl 16y ago
http://nokiaplanc.com/ http://nokiaplanc.com/ is up :) No affiliation, but I think it's funny. (For those who don't get it, Nokia was originally a rubber goods manufacturer)
- pyrtsa 16y ago
  It was originally many things, but before going into the rubber goods business it started out as a paper mill. http://www.nokia.com/about-nokia/company/story-of-nokia/nokias-first-century http://www.nokia.com/about-nokia/company/story-of-nokia/noki...
- sesqu 16y ago
  For some approximation of "originally". The rubber company had bought a cable company and an electricity company, and they merged in 1967. The electronics work came from the cable branch and the name from the electricity branch. The phone company was spun off in 1979, and the telecommunications one in 1977, and the mother company later bought both. They sold off the non-phone, non-telco bits around the 90's, including nokia tyres (worth appx. 3.5 billion euros now). According to Wikipedia, anyway.
- siika2000 16y ago
  Also: http://nokiapland.com/ http://nokiapland.com/ http://nokiaplane.com/ http://nokiaplane.com/
  - eik3_de 16y ago
    Also: http://nokiaplanx.com/ http://nokiaplanx.com/
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ReadyNSet 16y ago
Well all you want is Nokia's $billion to spend however you want and at the end of the day if you couldn't make it you'll just stand up dust your hands and move on. if the Plan is so good you can take MeeGo which is open source or heck even Android and make the best phone/OS/EcoSystem out there surely you wouldn't have any problem attracting VC funding would you?
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azharcs 16y ago
I think a quote by Henry Ford sums up the the whole Plan B and their approach. "You can't build a reputation on what you are going to do." ~ Henry Ford
gills 16y ago
"We're young shareholders, and our plan is...get this...young software developers." Riiiight...
jan_g 16y ago
Hmm, usually shareholders don't run the company. They own it. Stuff like choosing the tools, organization of R&D department and so on should be in the hands of the management. That's why you pay them.
pnathan 16y ago
I like the "make Nokia leaner" part. But I don't think they are in touch very well with the marketplace. Personally. I'm considering putting together some fun and easy mobile games for some mobile device in 2H 2011. I can select iPhone, Android, or, I guess, WP7. I'm looking for a platform that has these features: * Nearly free to register and start developing * Provides app store & DRM mechanism * Doesn't eat too many profits. * Ideally, lets me program very fast, think Ruby on Rails or similar framework. Okay, so that doesn't exist as far as I know. If Nokia can reboot to provide the above - then they can probably provide a fourth option. Nothing I've read so far indicates that they are going to roll that route.
gnaffle 16y ago
I think people are forgetting that Nokia _did_ make a very innovative platform back in 2005 with Maemo at the GTK-based Hildon GUI. If they hadn't stopped innovating and had gotten others on board except for Intel, that platform could have been Android today. It's true that they managed to kill it through sheer incompetence, including alienating a lot of first adopters by discontinuing product support for the internet tablets. But there's obviously brilliant people at Nokia, just like there were brilliant people at Apple before Steve Jobs. Now, if Apple had ditched MacOS when Steve returned instead of using NextStep, and instead went with Windows, and shipped a WP7 phone instead of a phone with OSX, where would they be today? They _might_ have had the iTunes ecosystem, if Microsoft would have allowed it. Their "differentiating features" would be at the mercy of Microsoft and their strategic plans. I guess people are right that you need an app ecosystem to compete in the smartphone market today. But the iPhone sold like hotcakes for more than a year before it had apps. If Nokia made a phone that users really wanted, I think the app ecosystem would have followed. Instead, they're using their huge market presence to give Microsofts platform the same boost.
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paolomaffei 16y ago
Do they have a chance?
innes 16y ago
Increase the lifespan of Symbian to a minimum of 5 years. Reap the profits of the existing market share and consumer preference that Symbian already enjoys in Europe and Asia. Delusional. Transition to an R&D setup where 90% of all Nokia R&D takes place in only two geographical locations. One of them will be in Finland and the other will be defined later. actively visit top universities worldwide to screen and and invite top students for interviews in Nokia R&D locations. That's a lot of long-distance flights to Finland.
bigB 16y ago
Maybe if they leave things alone Nokia might just survive. If they do whats in that list, they wont be shareholders or directors for long. Nokia fanboys need to realise that they are on a downhill slope right now, and if they continue on that path Apple and Android will bury them and Microsoft. I have owned Nokia phones from Australia's GSM introduction until last year when the lack of Nokia's software capability, in this country at least, forced my hand to the iPhone. Id give anything to go back to Nokia's quality hardware if it had a decent OS. Windows Phone 7 is a really nice OS, but for now is on some of the shittiest phones I have seen. Nokia + Microsoft should hopefully make a really nice bit of gear.
tjansen 16y ago
Actually I think Meego does not have a chance because of C++. It is Meego's main fault. Qt is a great framework, but that won't help if you force programmers to use languages from the stone age. Anyone who wants to establish a new platform should make it at least as easy to develop for as Android. And I also doubt that you can catch up with other OSes while using a less productive development environment. On the other hand, I never expected Objective C to be as successful...
- pessimizer 16y ago
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qt_%28framework%29#Bindings http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qt_%28framework%29#Bindings
  - tjansen 16y ago
    I know those bindings (obviously not all of them), but AFAIK there is not one binding that doesn't treat the programmer like a second-class citizen. For example, is there at least one binding with a complete reference documentation? From what I have seen, bindings typically document only the difference between the C++ API and the target language. That makes the documentation hard to read, especially for people who don't know C++.
    - pessimizer 16y ago
      More people that I know of use Python and PyQt to program for the N900 than C++.
- sn 16y ago
  Check out QML.
eibrahim 16y ago
I think WP7 + Nokia is a great move. Nokia makes great hardware and Microsoft makes great software and has a HUGE developer base. I have switched from iPhone to WP7 after 3+ years and I am really happy with it. I do miss some of the apps and games but love other features that make up for it. Hate Microsoft all you want but they have made great software (and also bad). Great = win7, wp7, zune, visual studio, expression suite, office suite, sql server. Bad = well you all know the list: IE8,7,6,5,etc..., hotmail, windows me and a ton of others that I am too lazy to list. If history is any indication, Microsoft will eventually dominate the mobile marketplace or at least be a very close second.
- bakbak 16y ago
  Nokia + MS can give a good fight to others provided they work very closely and act in lightning speed ... but this should be plan B and not plan A. Also Nokia is HUGE everywhere (except north america). What they have to do is to spend more on ecosystem to get things done as fast as possible and also spend on marketing in north-america ... MEEGO is a universal OS, it is used in cars, TVs, Games, tablets etc. so it's better to make it part of Plan A where users can be switched flawlessly from symbian with a solid ecosystem in place.
nivertech 16y ago
1. They are right regarding bureaucracy reduction and sane R&D management. They should migrate all their R&D to Silicon Valley and maybe Israel. 2. The simplest solution to SW is to be OS-agnostic. Offer the same phone model with different preinstalled OS choices. In the same way as you offer it with different colors or panels. Hell, let users change OS or use OS vrtualization, like one OS for Work (WP7) and an other for Home (Android) with two different numbers.
kenshi 16y ago
Plan B is the dream of what Nokia could have been. Unfortunately it should have been enacted over 5 years ago. It's too late for such a strategy now - by the time they delivered on their promises, the competition would completely eat their lunch.
balkanboy 16y ago
Nokia has the engineering/intellectual manpower to turn MeeGo into a diamond. Currently, we have 2 solid contenders in the mobile market - Android, which is encumbered by lawsuits from a 750 lbs gorilla (never mind the 500 lbs) Oracle, and iOS, which is plagued by the departure of its iconic founder, Steve Jobs, whose presence and vision is what made Apple's redemption possible. Steve may be with us for some time longer, but eventually he will either retire or pass, in which case, doubts remain about whether Apple can maintain its innovative/technical edge. The good thing about Linux is it is owned by no one, yet it is above everyone else. This is good for _you_, all of the posters here, who own a mobile phone/device/PDA/tablet/etc. Mark Shuttleworth and Canonical has jumped on the Ubuntu on Wayland wagon too - and guess what MeeGo is based on? Yep - Wayland. It will breathe new life into Linux by giving a low-level, efficient display server that will supplant X windows, and establish a new legacy for the next 10-20 years of Linux being the premier mobile/desktop/server OS. THAT is where you want to be going - into a future where no one owns the operating system, and it has become a commodity, and it has a solid GUI, much like OS X (or Windows, let's be honest, which has a top notch GUI), and a gazillion C++ or Java or whichever applications on it. If Nokia Plan B happens, which I have no doubt it will, Nokia can succeed where Microsoft continues to fail - to recapture the hearts of developers by giving them C++, Java, Objective-C - any language, available on the mobile phone/tablets. MeeGo is going to provide the default GUI shell for most if not all of Nokia's phones, but they can create a platform that is welcoming to ALL developers of all facets with knowledge of all languages, by leaving room for this on the MeeGo tablet. There's no technical difficulty in being able to run either DalvikVM or native C++ or Objective C or heck, even Python or JAva apps on a MeeGo/Linux platform - it can all be designed in such a way where it supports both. My point is, by providing the freedom for devs to do what they do best, on an OSS platform, Linux, and giving them a top-notch GUI API (Qt) w/bindings for various languages (dynamic ones for rapid dev), they can rise into a very dominant position in the next 5-10 years, and be a worthy competitor, and perhaps even carry the torch of iOS and Android, if the other two come to a sudden death because of lawsuits or health problems of its founders. I am _super_ excited and thrilled that Nokia wants to make MeeGo its top platform, and in my view, you ought to be too.

317 points by wybo 16y ago

latch 16y ago

I know they are saying it's coming soon, but this is really missing 9 bios. You have a definitive plan for what you'll do if elected to the Board of Directors, which is a great start. But writing an open letter, asking for something so serious, without a paragraph-long bio on each one of you is crazies in my book.

kooshball 16y ago
I agree. If they can get a major shareholder as even a figurehead, it would add a lot more credibility over "9 young shareholders", which means they have at least 1 share each.
- mryall 16y ago
  Yeah, in which case they'd probably be better to sell the shares than attempt to grab the helm of a sinking ship.
- fleitz 16y ago
  No kidding, if they could actually head a company like Nokia and create a superior UX then why not go shop your bios around SV looking for some VC to make a mobile OS. Or go shop your resume at Apple / Google / Microsoft. WinPhone 7 is light years ahead of anything I've seen from Nokia. Their naivety is betrayed when the talk about developing technology in house and then talk about Qt. If Nokia could build their own GUI toolkit they'd have no use for Qt.
  - bad_user 16y ago
    They already own Qt and all intellectual property associated, so why not use it? It's also a cross-platform toolkit with a clean interface and lots of mind-share. The whole MeeGo operating system is using bits and pieces from the Linux ecosystem. There's nothing wrong with that. The difference between them using MeeGo and them using Android or WinMo 7, is that with MeeGo they have complete control, as it's their platform. WinPhone 7 is light years ahead of anything I've seen from Nokia This statement doesn't hold water. I've tried WinMo 7, and it is decent, but all I could say about it was the same as for Windows 7 ... it is not that bad, but it's late, and limited, and those animations are causing me nausea, and tell me why should I choose a Windows again when I tried so hard to get rid of it the last time? Also, speaking as a developer, porting games from iOS / Android to WinMo 7 is not really possible without a 100% complete rewrite. And what happens when they completely break backwards compatibility again for WinMo 8, like they did with 7? Now you've got 3 problems.
    - fleitz 16y ago
      Wouldn't disagree with you on porting. Backwards compat w/ WinMo 8? You rewrite your apps and get to sell them again :) Nokia has also switched from Symbian to MeeGo so what's to stop them from breaking compat? The point of directing a public company is to do so with the best interests of the shareholders, I could be wrong but I have a feeling the majority of the shareholders of Nokia would be happier with Elops plan than the plan of these guys.
fady 16y ago
I was looking for the bio's myself - It would make a big difference, especially for people who do not know the whole Nokia story.

dreaming 16y ago

Assuming this is genuine, it is too little too late. Nokia needed someone to come and say this before the decided to jump ship. Its staggering to think of how many resources nokia have, and how little and slowly they've innovated. Nokia has been falling behind for a long time. One thing I always found disheartening was their desire to compete against themselves, and ignore others, as illustrated by them releasing an older version of symbian for their business phones, while using the new symbian for their media phones, but it seemed there was no place to get 'the best' nokia. It was always a choice, but one that didn't seem to have an easily identifiable consumer flagship. Just N's and E's and everything in between.

dangero 16y ago
Right. It's totally too little too late. Getting a billion dollars from Microsoft and using their ecosystem may be their best option at this point to get in the game again. Otherwise, they have too much ground to catch up in too little time.
- Bud 16y ago
  Why do you think that MS will help? Microsoft has no established "ecosystem"; not in the mobile phone world, at least. How does allying yourself with the aspirational #3 player in a two-player market help you catch up?
  - lallysingh 16y ago
    MS is #4. iOS, Android, and RIM.
    - jawee 16y ago
      Plus they´re also competing with WebOS once HP gets them back in the market, which is arguably a superior product on a technical front.
      - lallysingh 16y ago

cloudwalking 16y ago

I don't think smartphones can win without apps, and the OS market is getting pretty saturated. If iOS, Android, WebOS, and WP7 all have more users, when am I ever going to get around to writing MeeGo apps?

cookiecaper 16y ago
MeeGo, at least last I knew, follows in the vein of Maemo and doesn't need special apps written for it, it can run the same software as any Linux userland. Perhaps this has changed recently but I don't think it has. You can unify most of the codebase in .NET probably; use MonoTouch and MonoDroid for iOS and Android, Mono for Meego, and MS's included CLR on WP7. That only leaves webOS.
- grav1tas 16y ago
  Even if that were the case, you still have to package your app for distribution. The app store model probably makes this easier to do since you don't have to develop a framework for pushing your apps along with any updates you have down the road. Naturally there are libraries for this, but you still have to mess with them, and maintain deployment stuff on your own end.
- ajg1977 16y ago
  it doesn't need special apps written for it, it can run the same software as any Linux userland This type of fundamental failure to understand the consumer space is exactly what's driving Nokia into the ground. Consumers don't give a fig what userland your device is compatible with. Consumers want a super-simple way of finding interesting apps, putting them on their phone, and having them look good and run problem free. So yes, you really do need special apps.
  - cookiecaper 16y ago
    I didn't say consumers cared. I am annoyed to see people upvoting you since you are replying to something I didn't say or attempt to say. The grandparent said developers would have a difficult time keeping up, and I was replying to that. If you have a decent consumer-facing Linux application, it is easy to port it to Meego since it's basically the same thing, with maybe a few extra integration hooks to add in. Especially if the app uses Qt anyway. This, indeed, is a positive for developers, which is what the OP addressed. It trickles down to consumers, too -- if I can run normal programs with few or no changes on my phone, I'll have a lot more choices that already exist available to me. Also, as I stated, a normal Linux userland means normal Linux applications and things work -- you can use Mono or Wine if you want to run a Windows or .NET application.

cookiecaper 16y ago

Supposing they did get elected, I would expect they would cost Nokia a lot of money, possibly ultimately bankrupting the company, from litigation MS would inevitably bring and probably win. It would be a huge embarrassment to WP7 and MS if Nokia backed out, and if there's any way MS can swing damages for that kind of thing given their contract with Nokia, and I'm sure there is, they will definitely do so. I think that the ship has sailed and they're stuck with WP7 for the term of the exclusivity arrangement. If these guys want to make Meego the dominant smartphone platform, they're going to have to do it with something besides Nokia.

rbanffy 16y ago
> litigation MS would inevitably bring and probably win Unless they can convince a judge Elop acted on bad faith against the best interests of the company and favoring his previous corporate master. That could make the Microsoft executives who helped broker the deal accessories to this. I am not sure the first part is that hard to sell to a judge.
- jarek 16y ago
  On the upside, tear up a contract here, a strategic partnership there, and no one would ever want to do business with them again.
  - varjag 16y ago
    Well Elop just dumped Intel the same way, so I guess it's never a problem.
  - rbanffy 16y ago
    I would not want to do business with anyone who proposes me a partnership like this.

gacba 16y ago

I give Nokia Plan B a solid D- for too little too late. MeeGo got a horrible reception today by Intel (http://www.slashgear.com/meego-preview-at-mwc-2011-disappoints-14133583/ http://www.slashgear.com/meego-preview-at-mwc-2011-disappoin...) and it's obvious why Nokia abandoned it at this point, even for a bad choice like Win Mobile 7...what other choice did they have? Symbian? Bleeding market share like gutted cow. Android? Can't differentiate in that space. So to hear these 9 disgruntled folks say they're going to stick with a bad plan and make it happen sounds like lunacy to me.

SwellJoe 16y ago
"Android? Can't differentiate in that space." I've yet to see an explanation for any way in which they can differentiate on WP7, that they couldn't do better and more easily on Android. Say what you will about Open Source development, but when it comes to differentiation, there's simply no way to beat it...look at the variety of Linux distributions, for an example of differentiation gone wild.
- jsz0 16y ago
  Out of the gate WM7 is quite different from Android or iOS so there's that. I think maybe the bigger implied message here is that Nokia was not confident in their own software development teams to handle this transition. Look at what they built on top of MeeGo -- it's not very impressive. Would having Android underneath there make any real difference? I doubt it. They basically want to outsource their OS development.
  - SwellJoe 16y ago
    "Out of the gate WM7 is quite different from Android or iOS so there's that." That's only really a differentiator because no one wants Windows phones, so there aren't as many in the hands of users. I'm not sure that's the kind of difference Nokia needs right now. That's just lack of familiarity...not really a positive differentiation.
  - rst 16y ago
    Yes, but that's not the question. The question is, "how different is a Nokia WP7 phone from, say, one from Samsung or HTC?" If WP7 is a success, then by the time Nokia ships (late 2011 at the earliest), they will be entrants in a crowded field --- and so far, Microsoft is requiring most WP7 phones to be near-lookalikes, to get consistency of user experience across the platform. (Of course, part of the deal here may be that Nokia gets to differentiate their products in a way that nobody else does --- but if it is, then the other vendors may be ticked in a way that causes long-term problems for the platform as a whole. Contrast to Android, where vendors have complete freedom to reskin it right now.)

spiralganglion 16y ago

I don't own any shares in Nokia, I have never nor likely will ever own a Nokia phone, and I don't have any real insight into the nuances of the situation. But as an avid spectator of the evolving mobile platform "war", this sort of coup d'état would be amazing to witness from the sidelines, no matter the outcome. Therefore, and for no greater reason, I really hope this goes through.

WiseWeasel 16y ago
I think it's kinda sad. The marketplace shrank with this development, and a major powerhouse in mobile device development has been transformed into a commodity OEM. Nokia has suddenly been emptied of all of its unique value to consumers, leaving only an irrelevant shell of a brand without a vision or purpose.

ajg1977 16y ago

Plan B: Fire a couple of execs and keep following the strategy that got us to this point.

pyre 16y ago
Well, Plan A seems to be hitching their wagon to the horse that's seemingly in last place by a large margin. So comparatively, Plan B isn't that bad.
- keithwarren 16y ago
  Well, Plan A seems to be hitching their wagon to the richest and most powerful software company in the world who has pledged to give billions of dollars plus rights to customize a modern mobile operating system. So comparatively, Plan B is just sour grapes.
  - rbanffy 16y ago
    > Plan A seems to be hitching their wagon to the richest and most powerful software company in the world ... the same company that has been trying for more than a decade to produce a marginally adequate phone experience and has been consistently failing, with great comedic value, in each and every attempt to challenge whoever is the market leader at a given point. Nokia, who was the leader of this market on more than one occasion, is hitching their wagon to a goldfish who seemingly can't learn from past experience. Sadly, this Plan B has zero chances of flying. The board is on Elop's side because they are betting Nokia is doomed and the billions Microsoft will inject will give them both time and some added value when they gut the company to sell its parts a couple years from now. Nokia is gone. We'd better get used to it.
    - nl 16y ago
      Remember the old adage about Microsoft: "It take them 3 god to get something right"? (1) Windows Mobile, (2) Kin, (3) WinMo7 Have you used WinMo7? It's really nice (and this from an Android fan). I'm not sure it will save Nokia, but read a few reviews of WinMo7 ans go and have a play before you dismiss it entirely. (Edit: WinMo7's biggest problem is it's name. "Windows" is a huge liability because everyone associates it with desktop windows even though it shares no common code at all)

johnrob 16y ago

MeeGo smartphones and tablet devices will offer overwhelmingly superior experiences and applications than iOS and Android based competitor products That is one bold statement. I don't know if I'd bet the company's success on a claim like that.

ra 16y ago
That is a bold statement, but I think MeeGo would be a better bet for Nokia. Maintain ownership and control of the software layer of the Nokia products. Software is where innovation, differentiation and shareholder value can most easily be created. This IMHO is undeniable.
- PakG1 16y ago
  I don't think anyone disagrees on that point. But I see a lot of comments across the web (and here on HN) that people agree Nokia's strength is hardware, not software. If they don't have strength in software, can they really execute innovation, differentiation, and shareholder value at the software level? Elop's clearly shown where he stands on that thought with his burning platform memo. And I think the majority of people (from what I've seen from anecdotal evidence) agree with Elop.
  - nas 16y ago
    Yeah, what are the chances they would come out with a compelling smartphone software platform in the next few months? It's hard to do good work with flames around you. ;-) Maybe MeeGo would be great but that's certainly unclear at this point. They had years to come out with compelling software and they did not deliver. Essentially these guys are asking for more time. At this point the steamroller that is Android is up to speed. I don't see how MeeGo is going to make inroads anymore unless it is drastically better. Even though WP7 is actually shipping, it has a similar problem. IMHO, it has to be quite a bit better than Android in order to gain much market share.
- rodh257 16y ago
  yes but it's something they've been failing at for years. People buy their phones (around the world) because they make the best hardware, but they're losing ground to others who can make much better software.

deleted 16y ago

[deleted]

pjy04 16y ago

I like their developer plan. Focus on two areas of main development and eliminate a lot of the waste on the PM/Manager level.

elithrar 16y ago

I think a couple of things are obvious, from knowing some Nokia employees: a) These 9 are young, and likely Finns — who are generally proud people and who are guarded against outsiders (like Elop) b) They are software developers. Most of their Plan B focuses heavily on Meego and keeping development and R&D in-house. With Meego 'out' (or close to it) and WP7 in, software development resources at Nokia are likely to be slashed, and so of course they'd want to contest the decision. The biggest problem I have with their plan though, is this: > Return the company to a strategy that seeks high growth and high profit margins through innovation and overwhelmingly superior products with unrivaled user experience. Return? Nokia & Symbian might sell a ton of phones in the global market, but they certainly haven't had high margins nor growth over the last few years. They can't 'return' to the way things were, because that strategy is no longer viable in today's market. To carry on as if Apple & Google aren't kicking your ass is a sure-fire way to lose everything.

oomkiller 16y ago

Looks like a good start, but going with MeeGo is a fail in my book. Intel and Nokia should throw their weight behind Android and focus on making the best, fastest Android phone, with better features than anyone else.

Xpirate 16y ago

I got sort of an open question: Is there a platform independent API for development for WP7, iPhone and Android? It'd be great to write for one idealized target and have it run on all three ... or more if they make serious inroads.

mquander 16y ago
Yes, it's called HTML5 and Javascript. (Seriously.)
- artsrc 16y ago
  We need a common layer over the top of the various hardware (GPS, accelerometer) access API. I am sure something like jQuery can do that.
- edtechdev 16y ago
  yeah see phonegap or titanium appcelerator (convert html5/javascript to a mobile app, with access to stuff like the camera, contacts, sensors) also check out jquery mobile, sencha touch, cappuccino...
- rbanffy 16y ago
  And it also runs on WebOS.
- drdaeman 16y ago
  I doubt. How much of HTML5 features WP7 really supports? I've heard that: > The browser for Windows Phone 7.0 is based on IE 7.0, which does not support HTML 5 (in desktop terms HTML 5 support is part of IE9, which is currently under development). (http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en/windowsphone7series/thread/4233a7b5-6b70-4318-96f1-6683e2c38c03 http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en/windowsphone7seri...)

mjfern 16y ago

I think the authors are underestimating the challenges of commercializing and then gaining market share with the MeeGo platform. First, there is a question of development and time to market. By the time Nokia launches MeeGo and handsets, Android, iOS, and others (WP7, RIM, Palm) will be further entrenched in the market (e.g., market share, brand, hardware partners). Second, there is the fundamental issue that succeeding with MeeGo hinges not only on the OS but also on a thriving application market. Because of the application markets, there are strong network effects with mobile platforms. These network effects make it very difficult for a new platform to break into the space. To complement investments in MeeGo and WP7 for the smartphone market and Symbian for the feature phone market, Nokia should immediately invest in an Android strategy as a fail-safe. I understand this conflicts with Nokia's historical strategy of controlling both software and hardware, but it's quite possible that Android will eventually emerge as the winner-take-all platform in smartphones, aside from Apple/iOS and several niche platforms. If this were to happen, Nokia's singular bet on MeeGo (or WP7) may destabilize the entire company. In short, I propose that Nokia pursue a four-pronged strategy, pushing forward with MeeGo, WP7, Symbian, and Android -- Symbian for feature phones, which still account for roughly 80% of the worldwide mobile phone market, and MeeGo, WP7, and Android for the smartphone market. As uncertainty is reduced over time regarding 1) the potential of each of the smartphone platforms and 2) the pace at which geographic markets are shifting away from feature phones to smartphones, Nokia can appropriately adjust its investments. By making investments in each area, and adjusting the relative amounts over time, Nokia can better ensure its survival and prosperity despite the quickly evolving mobile phone market.

theoj 16y ago
That seems like a lot of options to explore at once, and could be quite expensive from an R&D and product development standpoint, while at the same time failing to capitalize on large returns to scale. Rather than a 4-pronged strategy I'd rather see 2 pronged strategy. Keep Android, dump WP7 (it's a laggard and Ballmer's MS seems incapable of generating any big wins) and select one of either MeeGo or Symbian.

cageface 16y ago

Interesting that they see outsourcing and distributed development as bureaucratic and inefficient. I wonder if this sentiment is becoming more common in the industry.

harshaw 16y ago

I did a bunch of work with Nokia back when I was working at Orange. We had a project to build push to talk software on Series 60 phones. Besides the idea that push to talk is a horrible idea, my job was to work with Nokia to make sure the software worked properly. We had some lower level software from our hardware provider (Kodiak Networks) and some UI code that we had built ourselves. As these projects tend to go, things didn't go well. due to various issues in the Nokia closed source software layer there were a number of bugs we (Orange & Kodiak) couldn't fix. We decided to fly to Tampere (one of Nokia's R&D locations) to fix the problem. Tampere is a lovely place to eat Reindeer. However, not once did I meet an engineer who could get shit done. Not once - Nokia never paired us with a serious developer who could even attempt to fix issues in their code. They surrounded us with product manager wankers and threw in a 22 year old engineer who wasn't able to make much progress debugging the problem. The Kodiak engineer was all ready to attack the problem with a dev board and a JTAG but no one would let us in the lab. What a clusterfck. Apparently a good bit of the S60 development wasn't even done in Tampere (or Finland). I think it might have been done in Japan. I think these sort of issues are what the author of the article alluded to regarding distributed development teams. Perhaps I only saw a small slice of the Nokia culture. But it was really* bad. I'm glad the guys behind nokiaplanb.com are passionate about fixing Nokia. Much as I think the M$ alliance is a waste of time, I admire Elop's bold actions. I can't see continued development of MeeGo as useful. What I have seen to date has been unimpressive and late. Additionally -why not just use Android as the base OS and innovate on top of it?

Murkin 16y ago
To counter point, 5 years back when our company sold our software product to Nokia, I flew to Finland to talk about architecture and implementation. Ended up giving a lecture to 8 (+2 PMs) Nokia engineers, many of whom asked the most intelligent and domain relevant questions I heard so far. (3 even asked me to stay after the lecture and go over detail). Things got done
- harshaw 16y ago
  good :) No doubt once you are plugged in their engineering talent is top notch.

beefman 16y ago

Increase the lifespan of Symbian to a minimum of 5 years Glad you're not going to any shareholder meetings of companies I own shares in...

artsrc 16y ago

I have an idea, startups. Have some former Nokia lead engineers and managers, start working on that plan. Have some other managers and engineers work on the Android plan. Have some others compete with Nokia to make better WP7 phones. Gets rid of 100 layers of management, etc.

ashr 16y ago

Plan B? Not Really. More like a wish-list.

teyc 16y ago

young chaps calling for a revolution. Not even listing credentials. This is not going any where.

Kilimanjaro 16y ago

I agree with all points, except one, spend half resources in meego and the other half in android, just to be sure.

jfm3 16y ago

Not all top talent is young...

kongqiu 16y ago

Long ago (~2002) when I lived in Beijing, a vendor at the city's Silk Market had Nokia-brand socks on offer. I suspected they were fakes. The Marlboro-brand shirts were decent, though...

billbub 16y ago

Wow! Who are these guys? What do they know about building a mobile ecosystem? Young how young? Looks to me like a bunch of kids who are scared to put their name out ..

mambodog 16y ago

I think their biggest challenge with going down the MeeGo route would be acquiring the kind of App ecosystem that iOS and Android have. I reckon their best bet would be to implement something like Alien Dalvik[1] to allow very easy porting of existing Android apps to MeeGo, and make their 'app store' as seamlessly alike to iOS and Android's (including working with top app developers to encourage them to bring over the most desirable apps). Once they can be seen as having the same big name apps as the other two, I think MeeGo has much more of a chance of being competitive, rather than being a 'third world country' of a platform. [1] http://www.allaboutmeego.com/news/item/12571_Alien_Dalvik_hopes_to_bring_An.php http://www.allaboutmeego.com/news/item/12571_Alien_Dalvik_ho...

vegas 16y ago
Meego's got a potential Dalvik port, though I don't think that will quite give it the Android Market, it's a start.
ponzi 16y ago
While that is certainly true, MeeGo is much more of a linux system than android is, and has great potential to attract hackers. The same tools and libraries can be used to develop for MeeGo, as is used in any (desktop) linux distribution. My point is, there is a lot of developers out there that already know how to develop for MeeGo. Not a proprietary but only very lightly platform specific tool chain is needed.

deleted 16y ago

[deleted]

olalonde 16y ago

Would it really be possible to cancel the deal without getting sued by Microsoft?

c141charlie 16y ago

We are seeing the beginning of the commoditization of the smart phone industry. Smart phones will become ubiquitous and intense competition among handset manufacturers will erode profit margins. While I admire the passion that fueled this letter, their goal to "offer overwhelmingly superior experiences" seems foolishly optimistic. How will Nokia differentiate from the plethora of Android derivatives, iOS, WP7, Web OS, and Blackberry?

spitfire 16y ago
Isn't that what android is all about? Commoditizing the market, and acclimatizing users to sophisticated capabilities (Like handheld search!). I'm not a fan of microsoft, but I am a fan of competition. I kind of like this battle that's warming up here.

jodrellblank 16y ago

If they had a clue based on modern software practices, they would make it easy to support them. From the bottom of the AGM questions page: Who has the right to participate in the AGM 2011 and what is the last day to buy shares if I want the right to attend and vote in the AGM? Each shareholder, who is registered on April 19, 2011 in the Register of Shareholders of the Company, has the right to participate in the Annual General Meeting. A shareholder, whose shares are registered on his/her Finnish book-entry account, is registered in the Register of Shareholders of the Company. A shareholder, who wishes to participate in the Annual General Meeting, may register for the Meeting by giving a prior notice of participation no later than on April 27, 2011 at 4:00 p.m. (Finnish time) by which time the registration needs to arrive in the Company. - http://www.nokia.com/agm/2011/in-english/questions-and-answers http://www.nokia.com/agm/2011/in-english/questions-and-answe... Although their plan is not in the list of proposals. How does it work? 1 vote per share or 1 per shareholder? Can I buy 1 share (which stock name on which exchange?) and support them? If not, and only big shareholders count, why the twitter popularity campaign? What specific goal(s) do they have (how many people, doing what?)

haguhagu 16y ago

Their statement sounds like ones that come out of politicians. That can only end well... I was watching some meego videos on youtube, it does not look that impressive and launching the phone usually takes a full minute. Whats up with that. Its an early build i guess, but as software ages, it generally gets more bloated meaning even slower.

drdaeman 16y ago
> and launching the phone usually takes a full minute If boot time is tolerable (i.e. it takes not more than a minute) this is one of the last things developers should care about. Users reboot the phone very infrequently, like, once in a while, when they completely forget to charge it and the power goes off. However, when phone is booted, it should run as smoothly as possible. This is the one thing I dislike in Maemo 5 - I managed to make my N900 run quite slow (sure, I've tried lots of the unstable apps from devel-extra so it's mostly my fault).

nl 16y ago

http://nokiaplanc.com/ http://nokiaplanc.com/ is up :) No affiliation, but I think it's funny. (For those who don't get it, Nokia was originally a rubber goods manufacturer)

pyrtsa 16y ago
It was originally many things, but before going into the rubber goods business it started out as a paper mill. http://www.nokia.com/about-nokia/company/story-of-nokia/nokias-first-century http://www.nokia.com/about-nokia/company/story-of-nokia/noki...
sesqu 16y ago
For some approximation of "originally". The rubber company had bought a cable company and an electricity company, and they merged in 1967. The electronics work came from the cable branch and the name from the electricity branch. The phone company was spun off in 1979, and the telecommunications one in 1977, and the mother company later bought both. They sold off the non-phone, non-telco bits around the 90's, including nokia tyres (worth appx. 3.5 billion euros now). According to Wikipedia, anyway.
siika2000 16y ago
Also: http://nokiapland.com/ http://nokiapland.com/ http://nokiaplane.com/ http://nokiaplane.com/
- eik3_de 16y ago
  Also: http://nokiaplanx.com/ http://nokiaplanx.com/

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ReadyNSet 16y ago

Well all you want is Nokia's $billion to spend however you want and at the end of the day if you couldn't make it you'll just stand up dust your hands and move on. if the Plan is so good you can take MeeGo which is open source or heck even Android and make the best phone/OS/EcoSystem out there surely you wouldn't have any problem attracting VC funding would you?

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azharcs 16y ago

I think a quote by Henry Ford sums up the the whole Plan B and their approach. "You can't build a reputation on what you are going to do." ~ Henry Ford

gills 16y ago

"We're young shareholders, and our plan is...get this...young software developers." Riiiight...

jan_g 16y ago

Hmm, usually shareholders don't run the company. They own it. Stuff like choosing the tools, organization of R&D department and so on should be in the hands of the management. That's why you pay them.

pnathan 16y ago

I like the "make Nokia leaner" part. But I don't think they are in touch very well with the marketplace. Personally. I'm considering putting together some fun and easy mobile games for some mobile device in 2H 2011. I can select iPhone, Android, or, I guess, WP7. I'm looking for a platform that has these features: * Nearly free to register and start developing * Provides app store & DRM mechanism * Doesn't eat too many profits. * Ideally, lets me program very fast, think Ruby on Rails or similar framework. Okay, so that doesn't exist as far as I know. If Nokia can reboot to provide the above - then they can probably provide a fourth option. Nothing I've read so far indicates that they are going to roll that route.

gnaffle 16y ago

I think people are forgetting that Nokia _did_ make a very innovative platform back in 2005 with Maemo at the GTK-based Hildon GUI. If they hadn't stopped innovating and had gotten others on board except for Intel, that platform could have been Android today. It's true that they managed to kill it through sheer incompetence, including alienating a lot of first adopters by discontinuing product support for the internet tablets. But there's obviously brilliant people at Nokia, just like there were brilliant people at Apple before Steve Jobs. Now, if Apple had ditched MacOS when Steve returned instead of using NextStep, and instead went with Windows, and shipped a WP7 phone instead of a phone with OSX, where would they be today? They _might_ have had the iTunes ecosystem, if Microsoft would have allowed it. Their "differentiating features" would be at the mercy of Microsoft and their strategic plans. I guess people are right that you need an app ecosystem to compete in the smartphone market today. But the iPhone sold like hotcakes for more than a year before it had apps. If Nokia made a phone that users really wanted, I think the app ecosystem would have followed. Instead, they're using their huge market presence to give Microsofts platform the same boost.

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paolomaffei 16y ago

Do they have a chance?

innes 16y ago

Increase the lifespan of Symbian to a minimum of 5 years. Reap the profits of the existing market share and consumer preference that Symbian already enjoys in Europe and Asia. Delusional. Transition to an R&D setup where 90% of all Nokia R&D takes place in only two geographical locations. One of them will be in Finland and the other will be defined later. actively visit top universities worldwide to screen and and invite top students for interviews in Nokia R&D locations. That's a lot of long-distance flights to Finland.

bigB 16y ago

Maybe if they leave things alone Nokia might just survive. If they do whats in that list, they wont be shareholders or directors for long. Nokia fanboys need to realise that they are on a downhill slope right now, and if they continue on that path Apple and Android will bury them and Microsoft. I have owned Nokia phones from Australia's GSM introduction until last year when the lack of Nokia's software capability, in this country at least, forced my hand to the iPhone. Id give anything to go back to Nokia's quality hardware if it had a decent OS. Windows Phone 7 is a really nice OS, but for now is on some of the shittiest phones I have seen. Nokia + Microsoft should hopefully make a really nice bit of gear.

tjansen 16y ago

Actually I think Meego does not have a chance because of C++. It is Meego's main fault. Qt is a great framework, but that won't help if you force programmers to use languages from the stone age. Anyone who wants to establish a new platform should make it at least as easy to develop for as Android. And I also doubt that you can catch up with other OSes while using a less productive development environment. On the other hand, I never expected Objective C to be as successful...

pessimizer 16y ago
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qt_%28framework%29#Bindings http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qt_%28framework%29#Bindings
- tjansen 16y ago
  I know those bindings (obviously not all of them), but AFAIK there is not one binding that doesn't treat the programmer like a second-class citizen. For example, is there at least one binding with a complete reference documentation? From what I have seen, bindings typically document only the difference between the C++ API and the target language. That makes the documentation hard to read, especially for people who don't know C++.
  - pessimizer 16y ago
    More people that I know of use Python and PyQt to program for the N900 than C++.
sn 16y ago
Check out QML.

eibrahim 16y ago

I think WP7 + Nokia is a great move. Nokia makes great hardware and Microsoft makes great software and has a HUGE developer base. I have switched from iPhone to WP7 after 3+ years and I am really happy with it. I do miss some of the apps and games but love other features that make up for it. Hate Microsoft all you want but they have made great software (and also bad). Great = win7, wp7, zune, visual studio, expression suite, office suite, sql server. Bad = well you all know the list: IE8,7,6,5,etc..., hotmail, windows me and a ton of others that I am too lazy to list. If history is any indication, Microsoft will eventually dominate the mobile marketplace or at least be a very close second.

bakbak 16y ago
Nokia + MS can give a good fight to others provided they work very closely and act in lightning speed ... but this should be plan B and not plan A. Also Nokia is HUGE everywhere (except north america). What they have to do is to spend more on ecosystem to get things done as fast as possible and also spend on marketing in north-america ... MEEGO is a universal OS, it is used in cars, TVs, Games, tablets etc. so it's better to make it part of Plan A where users can be switched flawlessly from symbian with a solid ecosystem in place.

nivertech 16y ago

1. They are right regarding bureaucracy reduction and sane R&D management. They should migrate all their R&D to Silicon Valley and maybe Israel. 2. The simplest solution to SW is to be OS-agnostic. Offer the same phone model with different preinstalled OS choices. In the same way as you offer it with different colors or panels. Hell, let users change OS or use OS vrtualization, like one OS for Work (WP7) and an other for Home (Android) with two different numbers.

kenshi 16y ago

Plan B is the dream of what Nokia could have been. Unfortunately it should have been enacted over 5 years ago. It's too late for such a strategy now - by the time they delivered on their promises, the competition would completely eat their lunch.

balkanboy 16y ago

Nokia has the engineering/intellectual manpower to turn MeeGo into a diamond. Currently, we have 2 solid contenders in the mobile market - Android, which is encumbered by lawsuits from a 750 lbs gorilla (never mind the 500 lbs) Oracle, and iOS, which is plagued by the departure of its iconic founder, Steve Jobs, whose presence and vision is what made Apple's redemption possible. Steve may be with us for some time longer, but eventually he will either retire or pass, in which case, doubts remain about whether Apple can maintain its innovative/technical edge. The good thing about Linux is it is owned by no one, yet it is above everyone else. This is good for _you_, all of the posters here, who own a mobile phone/device/PDA/tablet/etc. Mark Shuttleworth and Canonical has jumped on the Ubuntu on Wayland wagon too - and guess what MeeGo is based on? Yep - Wayland. It will breathe new life into Linux by giving a low-level, efficient display server that will supplant X windows, and establish a new legacy for the next 10-20 years of Linux being the premier mobile/desktop/server OS. THAT is where you want to be going - into a future where no one owns the operating system, and it has become a commodity, and it has a solid GUI, much like OS X (or Windows, let's be honest, which has a top notch GUI), and a gazillion C++ or Java or whichever applications on it. If Nokia Plan B happens, which I have no doubt it will, Nokia can succeed where Microsoft continues to fail - to recapture the hearts of developers by giving them C++, Java, Objective-C - any language, available on the mobile phone/tablets. MeeGo is going to provide the default GUI shell for most if not all of Nokia's phones, but they can create a platform that is welcoming to ALL developers of all facets with knowledge of all languages, by leaving room for this on the MeeGo tablet. There's no technical difficulty in being able to run either DalvikVM or native C++ or Objective C or heck, even Python or JAva apps on a MeeGo/Linux platform - it can all be designed in such a way where it supports both. My point is, by providing the freedom for devs to do what they do best, on an OSS platform, Linux, and giving them a top-notch GUI API (Qt) w/bindings for various languages (dynamic ones for rapid dev), they can rise into a very dominant position in the next 5-10 years, and be a worthy competitor, and perhaps even carry the torch of iOS and Android, if the other two come to a sudden death because of lawsuits or health problems of its founders. I am _super_ excited and thrilled that Nokia wants to make MeeGo its top platform, and in my view, you ought to be too.