6 ms·

A large portion of the tech industry rests on the justification that users are to blame when unethical user interface design does what it's supposed to and shun

A large portion of the tech industry rests on the justification that users are to blame when unethical user interface design does what it's supposed to and shunts some statistically predictable fraction of users towards choices that are not in their best interest.

krageon 7y ago
I think that nobody involved in any side of that argument (the people writing the justification and the people reading it) actually believe it is true. It's just some noise some person came up with to argue in bad faith why they should be allowed to keep doing bad things if it is good for their wallet.
- kbenson 7y ago
  Never underestimate what someone will believe when they have a vested interest in believing it.
  - pixl97 7y ago
    "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it"
mcguire 7y ago
Or management, those Snidely Whiplash types who create unethical requirements for innocent programmers to implement.
- WorldMaker 7y ago
  More reasons to push for Professional Ethics Boards with teeth and/or unions with ethics rules.
  - noir_lord 7y ago
    As software continues to become a structural part of society that becomes more and more evident. Civil engineers cracked the problem mostly by been able to say know and know that they had top-cover.
    - mcguire 7y ago
      ...but then programmers wouldn't be able to assert innocence and powerlessness. They might have to make decisions that would limit their income or result in consequences.
      - noir_lord 7y ago
        True but it’s a lot easier to say no as a civil engineer with both legal and professional bodies backing you than currently. It’s a trade off and it wasn’t something that happened over night it took centuries of disasters for civil engineering to become the way it is, software outside of academia is a minnow by comparison. We may get there but it’ll take a successive series of software disasters to get to it sadly.
- kohtatsu 7y ago
  Would you consider the girls who filed documents for the SS innocent?
  - nefitty 7y ago
    Well, maybe not as guilty as the people who created and maintained the systems the SS used.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - onceUponADime 7y ago
      The german mass murderer system was perfectly designed regarding minimizing repsonsiblity and traum to those involved. There was a prisoner getting them into the shower. There was somebody else, who just dropped a tin of cyanide down a drain. There was a prisoner crew to get the bodys out. Reponsiblity, so atomized, its inhumane.
TAForObvReasons 7y ago
> It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.

krageon 7y ago

I think that nobody involved in any side of that argument (the people writing the justification and the people reading it) actually believe it is true. It's just some noise some person came up with to argue in bad faith why they should be allowed to keep doing bad things if it is good for their wallet.

kbenson 7y ago
Never underestimate what someone will believe when they have a vested interest in believing it.
- pixl97 7y ago
  "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it"

mcguire 7y ago

Or management, those Snidely Whiplash types who create unethical requirements for innocent programmers to implement.

WorldMaker 7y ago
More reasons to push for Professional Ethics Boards with teeth and/or unions with ethics rules.
- noir_lord 7y ago
  As software continues to become a structural part of society that becomes more and more evident. Civil engineers cracked the problem mostly by been able to say know and know that they had top-cover.
  - mcguire 7y ago
    ...but then programmers wouldn't be able to assert innocence and powerlessness. They might have to make decisions that would limit their income or result in consequences.
    - noir_lord 7y ago
      True but it’s a lot easier to say no as a civil engineer with both legal and professional bodies backing you than currently. It’s a trade off and it wasn’t something that happened over night it took centuries of disasters for civil engineering to become the way it is, software outside of academia is a minnow by comparison. We may get there but it’ll take a successive series of software disasters to get to it sadly.
kohtatsu 7y ago
Would you consider the girls who filed documents for the SS innocent?
- nefitty 7y ago
  Well, maybe not as guilty as the people who created and maintained the systems the SS used.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - onceUponADime 7y ago
    The german mass murderer system was perfectly designed regarding minimizing repsonsiblity and traum to those involved. There was a prisoner getting them into the shower. There was somebody else, who just dropped a tin of cyanide down a drain. There was a prisoner crew to get the bodys out. Reponsiblity, so atomized, its inhumane.

TAForObvReasons 7y ago

> It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.