6 ms·

It absolutely is a basic necessity unless you wish to remain a serf for life.

thorwasdfasdf 7y ago
that happens anyways. if you own a home and have it paid off, you'll still be paying super high property taxes on that reallly expensive house. and with most 1st world governments taking in 40-55% of all income earned nationwide, we're all just serfs, at the end of the day.
- rorykoehler 7y ago
  I expect services for the taxes I pay. Paying taxes to my government is basically paying myself because I like living in a functioning society. If the government isn't doing a good job I'll try vote them out. Nothing like serfdom.
  - zornado 7y ago
    The difference is one doesn't have a choice in paying taxes i.e. one is obligated to pay them. If one doesn't pay, one loses their house.
    - rorykoehler 7y ago
      You're still paying them if you rent though, even if by proxy, and I don't think anyone wants to be homeless.
gowld 7y ago
Most people have been serfs for most of the history of civilization. They prefer it to scratching a life out of the dirt in the frontier.
leetcrew 7y ago
why? there's nothing inherent about owning a house that protects you from having all your surplus income siphoned away. if most of your wealth is tied up in the house, you are still vulnerable to property tax increases from appreciation on the home. not every state shields you from this to the extent that california does, and even california could change the law at some point in the next several decades. I'd much rather be renting and have $300k in a diversified portfolio than own a $300k house and no other assets.
- rorykoehler 7y ago
  You'd rather have both though right? Obviously it depends on the market and california is a pretty bad example as an outlier where renting may make more sense but in most places in the world atm buying is the cheaper and safer (as in less chance of eviction at short notice) option. On the flip side renters only pay for increase in property values and never gain. Real Estate is a major wealth generator for people who get on the ladder. Finally you can't live in your 300k diversified portfolio if the market crashes.
  - leetcrew 7y ago
    I would only prefer a house over stocks/bonds if the price-to-rent ratio was very low and I could purchase a house I liked for a small fraction of my net worth. > Real Estate is a major wealth generator for people who get on the ladder. ultimately this comes down to luck and how much of your income you spend on housing vs put into investments. there are certain locales where home prices are skyrocketing, but over the long term, average home appreciation is basically flat (but with lots of variance). [0] actively investing in rental properties is a different story, of course, but involves a lot of work, too. > Finally you can't live in your 300k diversified portfolio if the market crashes. sure, but rent is only about half of my monthly expenses currently. by the same token, you can't eat your house or fill up your tank with it. if you're worried about a crash and/or losing your source of income, you can always rebalance into bonds. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Case%E2%80%93Shiller_index https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Case%E2%80%93Shiller_index

that happens anyways. if you own a home and have it paid off, you'll still be paying super high property taxes on that reallly expensive house. and with most 1st world governments taking in 40-55% of all income earned nationwide, we're all just serfs, at the end of the day.

rorykoehler 7y ago
I expect services for the taxes I pay. Paying taxes to my government is basically paying myself because I like living in a functioning society. If the government isn't doing a good job I'll try vote them out. Nothing like serfdom.
- zornado 7y ago
  The difference is one doesn't have a choice in paying taxes i.e. one is obligated to pay them. If one doesn't pay, one loses their house.
  - rorykoehler 7y ago
    You're still paying them if you rent though, even if by proxy, and I don't think anyone wants to be homeless.

gowld 7y ago

Most people have been serfs for most of the history of civilization. They prefer it to scratching a life out of the dirt in the frontier.

leetcrew 7y ago

why? there's nothing inherent about owning a house that protects you from having all your surplus income siphoned away. if most of your wealth is tied up in the house, you are still vulnerable to property tax increases from appreciation on the home. not every state shields you from this to the extent that california does, and even california could change the law at some point in the next several decades. I'd much rather be renting and have $300k in a diversified portfolio than own a $300k house and no other assets.

rorykoehler 7y ago
You'd rather have both though right? Obviously it depends on the market and california is a pretty bad example as an outlier where renting may make more sense but in most places in the world atm buying is the cheaper and safer (as in less chance of eviction at short notice) option. On the flip side renters only pay for increase in property values and never gain. Real Estate is a major wealth generator for people who get on the ladder. Finally you can't live in your 300k diversified portfolio if the market crashes.
- leetcrew 7y ago
  I would only prefer a house over stocks/bonds if the price-to-rent ratio was very low and I could purchase a house I liked for a small fraction of my net worth. > Real Estate is a major wealth generator for people who get on the ladder. ultimately this comes down to luck and how much of your income you spend on housing vs put into investments. there are certain locales where home prices are skyrocketing, but over the long term, average home appreciation is basically flat (but with lots of variance). [0] actively investing in rental properties is a different story, of course, but involves a lot of work, too. > Finally you can't live in your 300k diversified portfolio if the market crashes. sure, but rent is only about half of my monthly expenses currently. by the same token, you can't eat your house or fill up your tank with it. if you're worried about a crash and/or losing your source of income, you can always rebalance into bonds. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Case%E2%80%93Shiller_index https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Case%E2%80%93Shiller_index