16 ms·

First Maine inmate enrolled in graduate school conducts research in prison

196 points by bifrost 7y ago

seibelj 7y ago
Inmates have nothing but time on their hands. We should give the mathematically inclined unsolved problems to turn over, and simple Raspberry Pis (even disconnected from the internet) for the means to code new software. If you have nothing but a wall to stare at for 12 hours a day, you may create something useful. If I had the power I would free every non-violent prisoner. Any person in jail for putting a substance into their own body, or for selling such a substance, does not deserve to be there. Such a waste of society's resources and talent.
- Polylactic_acid 7y ago
  What about people who have ignored safety laws and put people in risk or who have committed fraud? For drug usage it would probably make sense to use some kind of alternative prison which is focused on getting people off drugs and not punishment.
  - MiroF 7y ago
    Make them pay restitution, bar them from the career they committed fraud in. I don't know - it seems like we jump to prison way too early for so many offenses, why not try more reparative approaches first.
  - rhizome 7y ago
    Just want to note that "risk" is a highly malleable term, and "risk of risk" is not unheard of either.
  - DanBC 7y ago
    One of the people killed in the recent London Bridge stabbing was Jack Merritt. He was involved in a programme to train prisoners in law. This was called "Learning Together" because it put prisoners alongside law students. Some of those prisoners were dangerous men who'd caused real harm to people. It was transformative, and really helped people turn their lives around. There's a radio interview here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m00035vj https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m00035vj
  - dsfyu404ed 7y ago
    Criminalizing the risk of a bad outcome is a slippery slope toward losing a heck of a lot of freedom. Damn near everything is risky on some level. This is why we generally asses civil penalties and fines when people do dangerous things but don't actually hurt anyone. Letting the citizenry speak their minds, bear arms, and be safe from unwarranted searches all comes with some level of "risk" to everyone.
- AWildC182 7y ago
  I wouldn't make my worst enemy try to program without the internet...
  - Jtsummers 7y ago
    Programming without the internet isn’t hard. It’s like driving without a GPS. You have to commit more to memory, or, you know, use offline resources.
    - odyssey7 7y ago
      Ah, working through K&R was such a pleasant time, back in undergrad.
      - TurkishPoptart 7y ago
        Which book?
        Jtsummers 7y ago
        They’re referring to K&R’s The C Programming Language [0]. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_C_Programming_Language https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_C_Programming_Language
    - bifrost 7y ago
      I got started with python via a book on a plane, no computer, no internet (a looong time ago)...
      - justinclift 7y ago
        Did similar once... but hadn't run through the first setup piece where it ran through installing all the dependencies for the approach in the book. Which (obviously) couldn't work, as there was no way to download those dependencies mid-flight. Made some progress with the book during the flight, but it was mostly theoretical rather than being able to do the things. ;)
- burtonator 7y ago
  I argued this with my dad saying that people deserve our compassion and someone could discover a cure for cancer. He said he'd rather die from cancer than help someone who committed a felony.
  - tehlike 7y ago
    Unfortunately a very american view. Hope new generations can right our wrongs.
    - bifrost 7y ago
      I've heard this from the EU, China, Australia, India, Canada and Japan... It seems to be popular in "law and order" societies.
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
      - tehlike 7y ago
        I am not sure if i call all of the countries in this list "law and order". It kind of just sucks that people and their offspring has to suffer through a bad decision this bad. I wish we had better use of the downtime they have in prison, to societies benefit, onstead of the private corp that is the prison operator.
        throwaway17_17 7y ago
        You are making an unfounded assumption that prisoners on the whole desire to benefit society. I certainly know convicted felons and former inmates who truly do fit that mold, but I also know vastly more who could not be bothered to give a single seconds thought for society or what benefits it.
        bifrost 7y ago
        I too have personal examples on both sides. I have an acquaintance who was convicted of fraud, sentenced to 5 years, got out early due to performing community service in jail. Haven't heard much from him after he got out though. I have another friend who was convicted of manslaughter, he's been a very productive member of society since he was released and I feel that he's very trustworthy. I've known him for 15 years and maybe he's had some parking tickets... A former peer was convicted of sex crimes in the early 2000s, he's reoffended in multiple countries. A friend of a friend was convicted of eco terrorism, they've been on the run but keeping in contact somehow, they've apparently destroyed millions of dollars in properties and have yet to be caught again. If you look at the police blotter in my city, its pretty much all repeat offenders.
- est31 7y ago
  I'm with you about the first paragraph. People, even violent criminals like the guy portrayed here, deserve a second chance. And in general, sentences in the US are very harsh in my opinion. But I disagree with your extreme statement in the second paragraph. > I would free every non-violent prisoner. Any person in jail for putting a substance into their own body, or for selling such a substance, does not deserve to be there. Such a waste of society's resources and talent. Drugs are a waste of society's resources and talent. So many bright young people turned into junkies. Also, giving hard drugs to someone is a form of violence. The britons did that to weaken China in their attept to colonize it. Pimps often get their women on drugs to make them not leave. etc etc.
  - MrsPeaches 7y ago
    The extreme thing to do is to put people in prison for consuming/selling drugs. Consuming drugs may be a vice but so is gambling. You don’t put gamblers in prison just because they gamble. It is also possible to have a healthy relationship with drugs (or gambling). Most people can and do have a healthy relationship with drugs already e.g. alcohol. Again, throwing people in prison because of your judgement of their choices is an extreme thing to do. Imagine if we threw people in prison because they were eating to much sugar and becoming obese! Giving people choices about what they want to consume is not violence. Forcing or coercing them to do so, is. This is what Britain did in China and what pimps do to prostitutes.
    - throwaway17_17 7y ago
      There is a difference between gambling (which is illegal in many forms and in many places, so is punishable in similar manners to drug consumption) and drug use. That difference is legality. The prevailing theory is that people who deviate from what society deems (as a whole through a representative legislature) acceptable behaviors are to be punished, and since incarceration is the prevailing punishment it is imposed. Not saying I agree with the position, but there is a clear difference between legal and illegal actions at a societal level. As for what you termed selling drugs, a person who sells clearly illegal, potentially toxic, and often addictive chemical agents outside of the lawfully prescribed means of doing so are in a very separate category than the consumers of those drugs. Individuals selling heroin, fentanyl, or crack are clearly acting outside the law and in many cases doing so without regard (and sometimes explicitly benefitting from) the massively harmful effects of these drugs and the addictive attributes they possess.
- amelius 7y ago
  > We should give the mathematically inclined unsolved problems to turn over, and simple Raspberry Pis (even disconnected from the internet) for the means to code new software. This reminds me of the ReiserFS story. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Reiser https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Reiser
  - SeekingMeaning 7y ago
    How so? He developed ReiserFS before he was convicted, so I’m not sure what the connection is.
- akira2501 7y ago
  > If you have nothing but a wall to stare at for 12 hours a day, you may create something useful. No one in prison has 12 hours to just stare at a wall, being in prison is an involved affair. It's also presumptuous that prisoners are at all in a position to manage their time or availability. Further, even if they did have the time to just stare at a wall.. what quality of work would you honestly expect? No collaboration, no hope, no incentives. Sounds like misery to me. > Such a waste of society's resources and talent. Those resources don't _belong_ to society. They belong to the individual.
  - seibelj 7y ago
    The tax dollars I pay to house, clothe, feed, and provide medical care for people who have no reason to be imprisoned are the resources that belong to society that are being wasted. The waste of talent limits his or her contributions to the world.
  - ryanmercer 7y ago
    >Those resources don't _belong_ to society. They belong to the individual. >Currently it costs an average of $52.61 per day ($19,202.65 per year) to keep an adult inmate incarcerated in the State of Indiana . https://faqs.in.gov/hc/en-us/articles/115005238288-How-much-does-it-cost-to-keep-an-offender-in-prison- https://faqs.in.gov/hc/en-us/articles/115005238288-How-much-... >SUMMARY: The fee to cover the average cost of incarceration for Federal inmates in Fiscal Year 2015 was $31,977.65 ($87.61 per day). (Please note: There were 365 days in FY 2015.) The average annual cost to confine an inmate in a Residential Re-entry Center for Fiscal Year 2015 was $26,082.90 ($71.46 per day) https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2016/07/19/2016-17040/annual-determination-of-average-cost-of-incarceration https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2016/07/19/2016-17... Households in Indiana have a median annual income of $55,746, the national median annual income is $61,937. Federal minimum wage is 7.25 an hour, or $15,080 annually. That doesn't even cover 1 inmate. Where do you think the money comes to fund those prisons? Taxation of everyone which is definitely society and not an individual.
adjkant 7y ago
Getting a database error currently: https://web.archive.org/web/20200128215945/https://portlandphoenix.me/degree-of-difficulty/ https://web.archive.org/web/20200128215945/https://portlandp...
- bifrost 7y ago
  Probably slashdotted by HN users heh.
nikanj 7y ago
There's a Shawshank Redemption joke hidden in the headline, but I'm just going to go with heartfelt congratulations instead. Good job on turning that spiral upwards!
droithomme 7y ago
We have a lot of drug users in my town. They routinely steal things from my property and that of others on my street. Drug users here have done things like murder old people and set houses on fire and beat people to death with baseball bats in order to get money for drugs. They also really really like to prostitute their own children to get money for drugs. I support marijuana legalization. I also support mandatory death penalty for use of methamphetamine and opioids, when combined with any other felony crime. Those who disagree are free to do so but I won't work with them because I won't work with people who support the murder of old people and the prostitution of children. Those who support and enable these things are despicable horrible people. Exactly as bad as those who support open borders despite the problems with dangerous drug trafficking and child sex trafficking that results from these policies. Only terrible awful deranged madmen support commercial sexual abuse of children.
- p49k 7y ago
  You should read “In the Realm of Hungry Ghosts” - might change your perspective. It would be far more beneficial for society to learn and understand how addiction and the brain work and develop policies around that - more penalties are not going to curb drug addiction.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - droithomme 7y ago
    I support the Portugal policy: decriminalize opioid use and provide free injections at all police stations. Come in to the police station, and a nurse will administer your heroin. This policy completely eliminated violent and property crimes from people looking for money to buy opioids, killed the opioid illicit market, and reduced addiction overall. It's a good policy. Those who get addicted then prostitute children and murder others to get money for drugs should be put out of their misery, humanely, via the death penalty. In the OP's case, Mr. Brandon Sobosle Brown was kicked out of a nightclub by bouncer and ex-Marine James Sanders. Brown then shot Sanders as punishment with a .357-caliber handgun on June 24, 2008, permanently paralyzing Sanders. Hopefully Brown's research will get him money to help support Sanders. Brown's crocodile tears regarding his cold blooded attempted murder are not impressive. The sentence of 17 years is far too short for what he did.
40acres 7y ago
It's time to move to what criminal reform activists call 'restorative justice'. We lock you up, possibly contract your labor to some shady organization, and don't provide enough tools for those who've served their time to get back on their feet and contribute. We can see these effects in the economy if you look closely, the labor participation rate among men is declining, most new jobs (which are service jobs) go to women, millions of men are missing in our society due to this system which throws away human capital. For what?
- throwaway894345 7y ago
  > We can see these effects in the economy if you look closely, the labor participation rate among men is declining, most new jobs (which are service jobs) go to women, millions of men are missing in our society due to this system which throws away human capital. For what? Is that the cause? I've always heard it was due to changes in education policy/practice that resulted in lower graduation rates for males (I know some people here will reflexively think I'm challenging something; I'm not, this is a genuine question, and for the little I know about it, restorative justice sounds like a pretty good idea).
  - 40acres 7y ago
    I don't believe the cause has been definitely described. Education plays a part, the transition to a service economy plays a part, perhaps even video games play a part. I do believe that it's clear that labor force participation among males has been declining in past decades while the number of folks incarcerated has risen and that there is no doubt a relation between the two.
    - throwaway894345 7y ago
      > labor force participation among males has been declining in past decades while the number of folks incarcerated has risen and that there is no doubt a relation between the two Would be interesting to look at male education outcomes, labor force participation, and incarceration rates and compare them against their female equivalents. I know for fact that female education and labor force outcomes have been improving at the expense of male outcomes, but I'm not sure about female incarceration rates. My guess is that they are also increasing, but perhaps not at the same rate as male rates?
JCharante 7y ago
Portland, ME is a place where within an hour you could walk from the suburbs of the city to downtown to the very end of the peninsola. I'm really glad he turned his life around, but I'm also terrified at the thought that someone got shot at a place where I've walked countless times at night after school. The Old Port is a very small district, and life just seems ridiculously safe there. I think ideally this is the path that should be encouraged for inmates. We already spend so much feeding and housing them, what's more to try to educate them some more? Obviously not all inmates fit this description such as the Unibomber, but it seems like job training or preperation for getting degrees seems like a better investment than letting them out of prison without anyelse to do but more crime.
- Zancarius 7y ago
  > I think ideally this is the path that should be encouraged for inmates. We already spend so much feeding and housing them, what's more to try to educate them some more? Part of the problem, in my opinion (which may be wrong; this is just how I view it), is that our penal system focuses on punitive measures rather than rehabilitative. It's the same for drug addicts. While rehabilitation might be most costly upfront, the reduced risk of repeat offenses would almost certainly pay for itself, not to mention the related drop in crime stemming from such activities. I recognize it's not perfect, but it's certainly better than throwing otherwise non-violent offenders into jail with no hope and no help.
  - tropo 7y ago
    Our system isn't really punitive or rehabilitative, though we pay lip service to both. (truly punitive would involve torture, and truly rehabilitative is simply impossible) What we are really doing is called incapacitation. For a period of time, we eliminate the possibility of performing the crime. You can't rob a bank if you can't get to a bank. If a person does a mugging every week, but that person spends 80% of grown-up life in prison, we reduce muggings by 80%.
    - MrsPeaches 7y ago
      This is an interesting thought though the math in final sentence feels off.
frandroid 7y ago
http://web.archive.org/web/20200128215945/https://portlandphoenix.me/degree-of-difficulty/ http://web.archive.org/web/20200128215945/https://portlandph...
annoyingnoob 7y ago
>At the last graduation ceremony at Maine State Prison, Brown delivered a speech in which he spoke of the potential for prisons to become hubs of education, because of the power of education to change lives. Brown is on to something here. Our current prison system could use a lot of improvement, current recidivism rates are out of control. https://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=6266 https://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=6266
- vinniejames 7y ago
  For profit prisons create incentives to boost recidivism
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - austincheney 7y ago
    For profit prisons are irrelevant when the entire system is pay to play with bail bonds, plea bargains, attorneys fees, and so forth.
    - kibwen 7y ago
      Even in the absence of those factors, the perverse incentives of our current system of for-profit prisons would indeed remain relevant.
      - austincheney 7y ago
        Do you have evidence of that? It’s like claiming that a person farting contributes to global warming. It’s not statistically relevant with consideration for other factors present, even in the face of perverse incentives.
  - rayiner 7y ago
    Okay so what’s driving recidivism in the 92% of the former prison population that wasn’t housed in a for-profit prison? What’s driving recidivism in states like Illinois and New York where private prisons have long been banned? Or the 23 other states where, although private prisons aren’t banned per se, private prisons hold 0-1% of inmates?
tempsy 7y ago
It’s honestly insane how a prisoner gets free healthcare, education, shelter, food, etc. and yet those who do not commit crimes are (ironically) “chained” by debt instead to pay for all those things. Honestly if you’re in bad health, old, and have limited savings it would probably be better to just commit a white collar crime and go to prison than to die in sickness and poverty.
- eloff 7y ago
  If you think it's such a good deal, you're welcome to join them...
  - tempsy 7y ago
    Like I said, if I’m when I’m old I am poor and have a chronic illness I would.
    - eloff 7y ago
      I don't know, I wouldn't trade freedom for money. I'd rather find another way.
- munk-a 7y ago
  I think you're vastly over estimating the quality of those services delivered to prisoners, especially if they're incarcerated in a private prison where mold/maggot ridden food[1] is served on a regular basis. Still, I think it's important to note that some proportion of these criminals turned to crime out of desperation - the system that squeezes the poor for every dime they can't spare is the same that profits from their incarceration and privatized healthcare is a super twisted kind of awful. 1. https://www.metrotimes.com/table-and-bar/archives/2018/02/07/michigan-may-stop-using-private-food-vendors-in-its-prisons https://www.metrotimes.com/table-and-bar/archives/2018/02/07...
  - tempsy 7y ago
    If you’re old and poor and have a chronic illness you can’t pay for, having mediocre government healthcare is better than nothing, obviously. The point is I would 100% commit a white collar crime if I were put in that situation.
shpongled 7y ago
As a fellow graduate student (but not inmate), I also feel like I am conducting research in prison.
jacobwilliamroy 7y ago
What the fuck? Let him out already you savages!
moneywoes 7y ago
Does the website not work for anyone else
dollar 7y ago
The United States is a prison, the world's largest prison. You don't realize how quickly you can be accused of a crime you didn't commit, standing in front of a judge that doesn't care about truth or justice.
- himinlomax 7y ago
  It's crazy how easy it is to end up in prison in the US compared to Europe. Most people don't realize this. The consequences are also radically different. Former inmates are fucked for life in the US.
- TrackerFF 7y ago
  IIRC, the main culprit of the awful incarceration rates were mandatory minimum sentencing / sentencing policies that were introduced in the 80s. I guess it was a result of the "tough on crime" attitude that came after the 70s, and came just in time for the drug epidemics, and war on drugs.
- dsfyu404ed 7y ago
  Oh take your sensationalism and shove it. Damn near every country is like this to a large extent (and a great many are worse). If you do not have the resources to hire your own lawyer and the state accuses you of a crime you are usually screwed. If you had said the prison system is pretty bad for a 1st world country or that the US incarcerates people for far too many crimes or that there are simply too many things that are illegal I'd agree with you but the legal system in the US is pretty par for the course.
  - auiya 7y ago
    The US has the world's highest incarceration rate per capita. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarceration_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarcera...
  - Kunigaikstis 7y ago
    Based on your income, most countries cover a large portion of your lawyer fees in criminal court hearings. Also, hiring a lawyer won't bankrupt you the same way the educational system bends you over in the US.
arberavdullahu 7y ago
I get Error establishing a database connection
ryanmercer 7y ago
Me: working full time just to make ends meet, not a lot of time for college and don't want to take on more than a year of my income as student loan debt that will take a decade or more to pay off. Convicted criminal: all the free time, working on masters degree (possibly considerably subsidized, if not for free as there are various programs that provide college courses for free to inmates). Good for them I guess. Rehabilitation is truly a great thing, doesn't make it sting any less though. I play by the rules and have to struggle to attempt to get ahead, they break the rules to the point of being ordered to live in a cage for a period of time and are afforded the opportunity of unlimited studying time and degree programs. And before someone says "but their crime will make it hard for them to get a job" so does my bankruptcy from 7ish years ago. Anything dealing with money and companies won't touch you with a bankruptcy and anything requiring a security clearance wont touch you either.

196 points by bifrost 7y ago

Inmates have nothing but time on their hands. We should give the mathematically inclined unsolved problems to turn over, and simple Raspberry Pis (even disconnected from the internet) for the means to code new software. If you have nothing but a wall to stare at for 12 hours a day, you may create something useful. If I had the power I would free every non-violent prisoner. Any person in jail for putting a substance into their own body, or for selling such a substance, does not deserve to be there. Such a waste of society's resources and talent.

Polylactic_acid 7y ago
What about people who have ignored safety laws and put people in risk or who have committed fraud? For drug usage it would probably make sense to use some kind of alternative prison which is focused on getting people off drugs and not punishment.
- MiroF 7y ago
  Make them pay restitution, bar them from the career they committed fraud in. I don't know - it seems like we jump to prison way too early for so many offenses, why not try more reparative approaches first.
- rhizome 7y ago
  Just want to note that "risk" is a highly malleable term, and "risk of risk" is not unheard of either.
- DanBC 7y ago
  One of the people killed in the recent London Bridge stabbing was Jack Merritt. He was involved in a programme to train prisoners in law. This was called "Learning Together" because it put prisoners alongside law students. Some of those prisoners were dangerous men who'd caused real harm to people. It was transformative, and really helped people turn their lives around. There's a radio interview here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m00035vj https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m00035vj
- dsfyu404ed 7y ago
  Criminalizing the risk of a bad outcome is a slippery slope toward losing a heck of a lot of freedom. Damn near everything is risky on some level. This is why we generally asses civil penalties and fines when people do dangerous things but don't actually hurt anyone. Letting the citizenry speak their minds, bear arms, and be safe from unwarranted searches all comes with some level of "risk" to everyone.
AWildC182 7y ago
I wouldn't make my worst enemy try to program without the internet...
- Jtsummers 7y ago
  Programming without the internet isn’t hard. It’s like driving without a GPS. You have to commit more to memory, or, you know, use offline resources.
  - odyssey7 7y ago
    Ah, working through K&R was such a pleasant time, back in undergrad.
    - TurkishPoptart 7y ago
      Which book?
      - Jtsummers 7y ago
        They’re referring to K&R’s The C Programming Language [0]. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_C_Programming_Language https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_C_Programming_Language
  - bifrost 7y ago
    I got started with python via a book on a plane, no computer, no internet (a looong time ago)...
    - justinclift 7y ago
      Did similar once... but hadn't run through the first setup piece where it ran through installing all the dependencies for the approach in the book. Which (obviously) couldn't work, as there was no way to download those dependencies mid-flight. Made some progress with the book during the flight, but it was mostly theoretical rather than being able to do the things. ;)
burtonator 7y ago
I argued this with my dad saying that people deserve our compassion and someone could discover a cure for cancer. He said he'd rather die from cancer than help someone who committed a felony.
- tehlike 7y ago
  Unfortunately a very american view. Hope new generations can right our wrongs.
  - bifrost 7y ago
    I've heard this from the EU, China, Australia, India, Canada and Japan... It seems to be popular in "law and order" societies.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - tehlike 7y ago
      I am not sure if i call all of the countries in this list "law and order". It kind of just sucks that people and their offspring has to suffer through a bad decision this bad. I wish we had better use of the downtime they have in prison, to societies benefit, onstead of the private corp that is the prison operator.
      - throwaway17_17 7y ago
        You are making an unfounded assumption that prisoners on the whole desire to benefit society. I certainly know convicted felons and former inmates who truly do fit that mold, but I also know vastly more who could not be bothered to give a single seconds thought for society or what benefits it.
        bifrost 7y ago
        I too have personal examples on both sides. I have an acquaintance who was convicted of fraud, sentenced to 5 years, got out early due to performing community service in jail. Haven't heard much from him after he got out though. I have another friend who was convicted of manslaughter, he's been a very productive member of society since he was released and I feel that he's very trustworthy. I've known him for 15 years and maybe he's had some parking tickets... A former peer was convicted of sex crimes in the early 2000s, he's reoffended in multiple countries. A friend of a friend was convicted of eco terrorism, they've been on the run but keeping in contact somehow, they've apparently destroyed millions of dollars in properties and have yet to be caught again. If you look at the police blotter in my city, its pretty much all repeat offenders.
est31 7y ago
I'm with you about the first paragraph. People, even violent criminals like the guy portrayed here, deserve a second chance. And in general, sentences in the US are very harsh in my opinion. But I disagree with your extreme statement in the second paragraph. > I would free every non-violent prisoner. Any person in jail for putting a substance into their own body, or for selling such a substance, does not deserve to be there. Such a waste of society's resources and talent. Drugs are a waste of society's resources and talent. So many bright young people turned into junkies. Also, giving hard drugs to someone is a form of violence. The britons did that to weaken China in their attept to colonize it. Pimps often get their women on drugs to make them not leave. etc etc.
- MrsPeaches 7y ago
  The extreme thing to do is to put people in prison for consuming/selling drugs. Consuming drugs may be a vice but so is gambling. You don’t put gamblers in prison just because they gamble. It is also possible to have a healthy relationship with drugs (or gambling). Most people can and do have a healthy relationship with drugs already e.g. alcohol. Again, throwing people in prison because of your judgement of their choices is an extreme thing to do. Imagine if we threw people in prison because they were eating to much sugar and becoming obese! Giving people choices about what they want to consume is not violence. Forcing or coercing them to do so, is. This is what Britain did in China and what pimps do to prostitutes.
  - throwaway17_17 7y ago
    There is a difference between gambling (which is illegal in many forms and in many places, so is punishable in similar manners to drug consumption) and drug use. That difference is legality. The prevailing theory is that people who deviate from what society deems (as a whole through a representative legislature) acceptable behaviors are to be punished, and since incarceration is the prevailing punishment it is imposed. Not saying I agree with the position, but there is a clear difference between legal and illegal actions at a societal level. As for what you termed selling drugs, a person who sells clearly illegal, potentially toxic, and often addictive chemical agents outside of the lawfully prescribed means of doing so are in a very separate category than the consumers of those drugs. Individuals selling heroin, fentanyl, or crack are clearly acting outside the law and in many cases doing so without regard (and sometimes explicitly benefitting from) the massively harmful effects of these drugs and the addictive attributes they possess.
amelius 7y ago
> We should give the mathematically inclined unsolved problems to turn over, and simple Raspberry Pis (even disconnected from the internet) for the means to code new software. This reminds me of the ReiserFS story. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Reiser https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Reiser
- SeekingMeaning 7y ago
  How so? He developed ReiserFS before he was convicted, so I’m not sure what the connection is.
akira2501 7y ago
> If you have nothing but a wall to stare at for 12 hours a day, you may create something useful. No one in prison has 12 hours to just stare at a wall, being in prison is an involved affair. It's also presumptuous that prisoners are at all in a position to manage their time or availability. Further, even if they did have the time to just stare at a wall.. what quality of work would you honestly expect? No collaboration, no hope, no incentives. Sounds like misery to me. > Such a waste of society's resources and talent. Those resources don't _belong_ to society. They belong to the individual.
- seibelj 7y ago
  The tax dollars I pay to house, clothe, feed, and provide medical care for people who have no reason to be imprisoned are the resources that belong to society that are being wasted. The waste of talent limits his or her contributions to the world.
- ryanmercer 7y ago
  >Those resources don't _belong_ to society. They belong to the individual. >Currently it costs an average of $52.61 per day ($19,202.65 per year) to keep an adult inmate incarcerated in the State of Indiana . https://faqs.in.gov/hc/en-us/articles/115005238288-How-much-does-it-cost-to-keep-an-offender-in-prison- https://faqs.in.gov/hc/en-us/articles/115005238288-How-much-... >SUMMARY: The fee to cover the average cost of incarceration for Federal inmates in Fiscal Year 2015 was $31,977.65 ($87.61 per day). (Please note: There were 365 days in FY 2015.) The average annual cost to confine an inmate in a Residential Re-entry Center for Fiscal Year 2015 was $26,082.90 ($71.46 per day) https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2016/07/19/2016-17040/annual-determination-of-average-cost-of-incarceration https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2016/07/19/2016-17... Households in Indiana have a median annual income of $55,746, the national median annual income is $61,937. Federal minimum wage is 7.25 an hour, or $15,080 annually. That doesn't even cover 1 inmate. Where do you think the money comes to fund those prisons? Taxation of everyone which is definitely society and not an individual.

adjkant 7y ago

Getting a database error currently: https://web.archive.org/web/20200128215945/https://portlandphoenix.me/degree-of-difficulty/ https://web.archive.org/web/20200128215945/https://portlandp...

bifrost 7y ago
Probably slashdotted by HN users heh.

nikanj 7y ago

There's a Shawshank Redemption joke hidden in the headline, but I'm just going to go with heartfelt congratulations instead. Good job on turning that spiral upwards!

droithomme 7y ago

We have a lot of drug users in my town. They routinely steal things from my property and that of others on my street. Drug users here have done things like murder old people and set houses on fire and beat people to death with baseball bats in order to get money for drugs. They also really really like to prostitute their own children to get money for drugs. I support marijuana legalization. I also support mandatory death penalty for use of methamphetamine and opioids, when combined with any other felony crime. Those who disagree are free to do so but I won't work with them because I won't work with people who support the murder of old people and the prostitution of children. Those who support and enable these things are despicable horrible people. Exactly as bad as those who support open borders despite the problems with dangerous drug trafficking and child sex trafficking that results from these policies. Only terrible awful deranged madmen support commercial sexual abuse of children.

p49k 7y ago
You should read “In the Realm of Hungry Ghosts” - might change your perspective. It would be far more beneficial for society to learn and understand how addiction and the brain work and develop policies around that - more penalties are not going to curb drug addiction.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- droithomme 7y ago
  I support the Portugal policy: decriminalize opioid use and provide free injections at all police stations. Come in to the police station, and a nurse will administer your heroin. This policy completely eliminated violent and property crimes from people looking for money to buy opioids, killed the opioid illicit market, and reduced addiction overall. It's a good policy. Those who get addicted then prostitute children and murder others to get money for drugs should be put out of their misery, humanely, via the death penalty. In the OP's case, Mr. Brandon Sobosle Brown was kicked out of a nightclub by bouncer and ex-Marine James Sanders. Brown then shot Sanders as punishment with a .357-caliber handgun on June 24, 2008, permanently paralyzing Sanders. Hopefully Brown's research will get him money to help support Sanders. Brown's crocodile tears regarding his cold blooded attempted murder are not impressive. The sentence of 17 years is far too short for what he did.

40acres 7y ago

It's time to move to what criminal reform activists call 'restorative justice'. We lock you up, possibly contract your labor to some shady organization, and don't provide enough tools for those who've served their time to get back on their feet and contribute. We can see these effects in the economy if you look closely, the labor participation rate among men is declining, most new jobs (which are service jobs) go to women, millions of men are missing in our society due to this system which throws away human capital. For what?

throwaway894345 7y ago
> We can see these effects in the economy if you look closely, the labor participation rate among men is declining, most new jobs (which are service jobs) go to women, millions of men are missing in our society due to this system which throws away human capital. For what? Is that the cause? I've always heard it was due to changes in education policy/practice that resulted in lower graduation rates for males (I know some people here will reflexively think I'm challenging something; I'm not, this is a genuine question, and for the little I know about it, restorative justice sounds like a pretty good idea).
- 40acres 7y ago
  I don't believe the cause has been definitely described. Education plays a part, the transition to a service economy plays a part, perhaps even video games play a part. I do believe that it's clear that labor force participation among males has been declining in past decades while the number of folks incarcerated has risen and that there is no doubt a relation between the two.
  - throwaway894345 7y ago
    > labor force participation among males has been declining in past decades while the number of folks incarcerated has risen and that there is no doubt a relation between the two Would be interesting to look at male education outcomes, labor force participation, and incarceration rates and compare them against their female equivalents. I know for fact that female education and labor force outcomes have been improving at the expense of male outcomes, but I'm not sure about female incarceration rates. My guess is that they are also increasing, but perhaps not at the same rate as male rates?

JCharante 7y ago

Portland, ME is a place where within an hour you could walk from the suburbs of the city to downtown to the very end of the peninsola. I'm really glad he turned his life around, but I'm also terrified at the thought that someone got shot at a place where I've walked countless times at night after school. The Old Port is a very small district, and life just seems ridiculously safe there. I think ideally this is the path that should be encouraged for inmates. We already spend so much feeding and housing them, what's more to try to educate them some more? Obviously not all inmates fit this description such as the Unibomber, but it seems like job training or preperation for getting degrees seems like a better investment than letting them out of prison without anyelse to do but more crime.

Zancarius 7y ago
> I think ideally this is the path that should be encouraged for inmates. We already spend so much feeding and housing them, what's more to try to educate them some more? Part of the problem, in my opinion (which may be wrong; this is just how I view it), is that our penal system focuses on punitive measures rather than rehabilitative. It's the same for drug addicts. While rehabilitation might be most costly upfront, the reduced risk of repeat offenses would almost certainly pay for itself, not to mention the related drop in crime stemming from such activities. I recognize it's not perfect, but it's certainly better than throwing otherwise non-violent offenders into jail with no hope and no help.
- tropo 7y ago
  Our system isn't really punitive or rehabilitative, though we pay lip service to both. (truly punitive would involve torture, and truly rehabilitative is simply impossible) What we are really doing is called incapacitation. For a period of time, we eliminate the possibility of performing the crime. You can't rob a bank if you can't get to a bank. If a person does a mugging every week, but that person spends 80% of grown-up life in prison, we reduce muggings by 80%.
  - MrsPeaches 7y ago
    This is an interesting thought though the math in final sentence feels off.

frandroid 7y ago

http://web.archive.org/web/20200128215945/https://portlandphoenix.me/degree-of-difficulty/ http://web.archive.org/web/20200128215945/https://portlandph...

annoyingnoob 7y ago

>At the last graduation ceremony at Maine State Prison, Brown delivered a speech in which he spoke of the potential for prisons to become hubs of education, because of the power of education to change lives. Brown is on to something here. Our current prison system could use a lot of improvement, current recidivism rates are out of control. https://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=6266 https://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=6266

vinniejames 7y ago
For profit prisons create incentives to boost recidivism
- deleted 7y ago
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- austincheney 7y ago
  For profit prisons are irrelevant when the entire system is pay to play with bail bonds, plea bargains, attorneys fees, and so forth.
  - kibwen 7y ago
    Even in the absence of those factors, the perverse incentives of our current system of for-profit prisons would indeed remain relevant.
    - austincheney 7y ago
      Do you have evidence of that? It’s like claiming that a person farting contributes to global warming. It’s not statistically relevant with consideration for other factors present, even in the face of perverse incentives.
- rayiner 7y ago
  Okay so what’s driving recidivism in the 92% of the former prison population that wasn’t housed in a for-profit prison? What’s driving recidivism in states like Illinois and New York where private prisons have long been banned? Or the 23 other states where, although private prisons aren’t banned per se, private prisons hold 0-1% of inmates?

tempsy 7y ago

It’s honestly insane how a prisoner gets free healthcare, education, shelter, food, etc. and yet those who do not commit crimes are (ironically) “chained” by debt instead to pay for all those things. Honestly if you’re in bad health, old, and have limited savings it would probably be better to just commit a white collar crime and go to prison than to die in sickness and poverty.

eloff 7y ago
If you think it's such a good deal, you're welcome to join them...
- tempsy 7y ago
  Like I said, if I’m when I’m old I am poor and have a chronic illness I would.
  - eloff 7y ago
    I don't know, I wouldn't trade freedom for money. I'd rather find another way.
munk-a 7y ago
I think you're vastly over estimating the quality of those services delivered to prisoners, especially if they're incarcerated in a private prison where mold/maggot ridden food[1] is served on a regular basis. Still, I think it's important to note that some proportion of these criminals turned to crime out of desperation - the system that squeezes the poor for every dime they can't spare is the same that profits from their incarceration and privatized healthcare is a super twisted kind of awful. 1. https://www.metrotimes.com/table-and-bar/archives/2018/02/07/michigan-may-stop-using-private-food-vendors-in-its-prisons https://www.metrotimes.com/table-and-bar/archives/2018/02/07...
- tempsy 7y ago
  If you’re old and poor and have a chronic illness you can’t pay for, having mediocre government healthcare is better than nothing, obviously. The point is I would 100% commit a white collar crime if I were put in that situation.

shpongled 7y ago

As a fellow graduate student (but not inmate), I also feel like I am conducting research in prison.

jacobwilliamroy 7y ago

What the fuck? Let him out already you savages!

moneywoes 7y ago

Does the website not work for anyone else

dollar 7y ago

The United States is a prison, the world's largest prison. You don't realize how quickly you can be accused of a crime you didn't commit, standing in front of a judge that doesn't care about truth or justice.

himinlomax 7y ago
It's crazy how easy it is to end up in prison in the US compared to Europe. Most people don't realize this. The consequences are also radically different. Former inmates are fucked for life in the US.
TrackerFF 7y ago
IIRC, the main culprit of the awful incarceration rates were mandatory minimum sentencing / sentencing policies that were introduced in the 80s. I guess it was a result of the "tough on crime" attitude that came after the 70s, and came just in time for the drug epidemics, and war on drugs.
dsfyu404ed 7y ago
Oh take your sensationalism and shove it. Damn near every country is like this to a large extent (and a great many are worse). If you do not have the resources to hire your own lawyer and the state accuses you of a crime you are usually screwed. If you had said the prison system is pretty bad for a 1st world country or that the US incarcerates people for far too many crimes or that there are simply too many things that are illegal I'd agree with you but the legal system in the US is pretty par for the course.
- auiya 7y ago
  The US has the world's highest incarceration rate per capita. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarceration_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarcera...
- Kunigaikstis 7y ago
  Based on your income, most countries cover a large portion of your lawyer fees in criminal court hearings. Also, hiring a lawyer won't bankrupt you the same way the educational system bends you over in the US.

arberavdullahu 7y ago

I get Error establishing a database connection

ryanmercer 7y ago

Me: working full time just to make ends meet, not a lot of time for college and don't want to take on more than a year of my income as student loan debt that will take a decade or more to pay off. Convicted criminal: all the free time, working on masters degree (possibly considerably subsidized, if not for free as there are various programs that provide college courses for free to inmates). Good for them I guess. Rehabilitation is truly a great thing, doesn't make it sting any less though. I play by the rules and have to struggle to attempt to get ahead, they break the rules to the point of being ordered to live in a cage for a period of time and are afforded the opportunity of unlimited studying time and degree programs. And before someone says "but their crime will make it hard for them to get a job" so does my bankruptcy from 7ish years ago. Anything dealing with money and companies won't touch you with a bankruptcy and anything requiring a security clearance wont touch you either.