4 ms·

'Tatemae' and 'Honne' - White Lies and Honesty in Japanese Society

28 points by LiveTheDream 16y ago

randall 16y ago
This reminds me of the public / private dichotomy within corporations. Publicly, a corporate officer might need to say something to not offend potential partners or investors, but privately they may feel another feeling which they express to their coworkers. It's interesting that culturally, the Japanese appear to have identified this behavior and have given it a name.
larrik 16y ago
Am I the only one who had trouble following this? I read the article and still have no idea what "Tatemae" and "Honne" actually mean. Is it like "Fine"? Also, is it really a news flash that spoken words aren't strictly meant to be taken at face value at all times? The "I'm fine" "Great" is mostly just a handshake to give the other person a chance to talk first anyway (for whatever reason). I think there is a great deal of nuance and interesting parts of the exchange, and this article covers just about none of them. (And honesty has almost nothing to do with it)
- LiveTheDream 16y ago
  FTA: Tatemae (pronounced 'Ta-teh-MAE'): official, public, socially required reality Honne (pronounced 'HON-neh'): informal, personal reality in disregard of social parameters
- chc 16y ago
  I think you're having trouble with this because you're looking for the words to have a meaning in a context where they don't. Tatamae is most literally equivalent to the English "putting up a front" — it's a wall of propriety between yourself and the outside world. It's not something you say to people; it's the reason you say those things. Honne means something like "true thoughts." It's what you really feel. Exposing your honne in situations that call for tatamae is a bit like exposing your genitals in a situation that calls for pants — and like pants, tatamae is what you're expected to put on most of the time. Of course this kind of behavior exists everywhere to varying degrees, but it's rarely as formalized (both in practice and in the language available to talk about it) as it is in Japan.
spinchange 16y ago
I have been trying to remember these two names for AGES. Thank you!
varjag 16y ago
So, Britons still make fun out of French.
- pbhjpbhj 16y ago
  The choice of nationality seemed pretty arbitrary to me. In what way did the article "make fun out of [the] French"?
- angus77 16y ago
  Possibly because it might have been a story about an actual Frenchman?

28 points by LiveTheDream 16y ago

This reminds me of the public / private dichotomy within corporations. Publicly, a corporate officer might need to say something to not offend potential partners or investors, but privately they may feel another feeling which they express to their coworkers. It's interesting that culturally, the Japanese appear to have identified this behavior and have given it a name.

larrik 16y ago

Am I the only one who had trouble following this? I read the article and still have no idea what "Tatemae" and "Honne" actually mean. Is it like "Fine"? Also, is it really a news flash that spoken words aren't strictly meant to be taken at face value at all times? The "I'm fine" "Great" is mostly just a handshake to give the other person a chance to talk first anyway (for whatever reason). I think there is a great deal of nuance and interesting parts of the exchange, and this article covers just about none of them. (And honesty has almost nothing to do with it)

LiveTheDream 16y ago
FTA: Tatemae (pronounced 'Ta-teh-MAE'): official, public, socially required reality Honne (pronounced 'HON-neh'): informal, personal reality in disregard of social parameters
chc 16y ago
I think you're having trouble with this because you're looking for the words to have a meaning in a context where they don't. Tatamae is most literally equivalent to the English "putting up a front" — it's a wall of propriety between yourself and the outside world. It's not something you say to people; it's the reason you say those things. Honne means something like "true thoughts." It's what you really feel. Exposing your honne in situations that call for tatamae is a bit like exposing your genitals in a situation that calls for pants — and like pants, tatamae is what you're expected to put on most of the time. Of course this kind of behavior exists everywhere to varying degrees, but it's rarely as formalized (both in practice and in the language available to talk about it) as it is in Japan.

spinchange 16y ago

I have been trying to remember these two names for AGES. Thank you!

varjag 16y ago

So, Britons still make fun out of French.

pbhjpbhj 16y ago
The choice of nationality seemed pretty arbitrary to me. In what way did the article "make fun out of [the] French"?
angus77 16y ago
Possibly because it might have been a story about an actual Frenchman?