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U.S. is critically insufficient (hasn't fracking lowered our emissions over the past few years?) while China is only highly insufficient with India sufficient f

by wpasc 7y ago

U.S. is critically insufficient (hasn't fracking lowered our emissions over the past few years?) while China is only highly insufficient with India sufficient for 2oC? Genuinely curious, would someone mind explaining that to me?

ido 7y ago
I would guess poorer countries' citizens produce less co2 per capita due to using less resources?
efitz 7y ago
It doesn't track outcomes, it tracks policy. The China and India ratings make it clear that they aren't tracking effectiveness or whether the policies are even being implemented.
- caseysoftware 7y ago
  That's a small but hugely important distinction that I didn't see disclosed up front. By that reasoning, the alcoholic who promises "to never drink again!" is on the right track even if he's at the bar drinking right now.
  - godelski 7y ago
    This is the main criticism with a lot of these comparisons. That it doesn't help us solve the problem but rather does virtue signaling. I think a better comparison is maps like these[0], though they don't tell the full story either. No one map will. Unsurprisingly, climate is a multifaceted and complex problem that is extremely difficult to solve and needs much more than policy to solve. [0] https://www.electricitymap.org/?wind=false&solar=false&page=country&countryCode=FR&remote=true https://www.electricitymap.org/?wind=false&solar=false&page=...
  - JungleGymSam 7y ago
    Exactly. This is just alarmism.
evandijk70 7y ago
They have vastly different CO2 emission goals according to what is 'fair', compare: https://climateactiontracker.org/countries/usa/ https://climateactiontracker.org/countries/usa/ with: https://climateactiontracker.org/countries/china/ https://climateactiontracker.org/countries/china/ Despite that China's CO2 emissions are increasing and the US emissions are decreasing, China meets its goal while the US does not. The following page explains how these goals were set https://climateactiontracker.org/methodology/comparability-of-effort/ https://climateactiontracker.org/methodology/comparability-o...
imtringued 7y ago
Global temperatures are not influenced by yearly emissions. The driving factor of climate change are cumulative emissions over the last 2 centuries. China is a huge emitter but their emissions only started rising 20 years ago. [0] Their cumulative emissions are still significantly below USA. [0] https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/15/World_fossil_carbon_dioxide_emissions_six_top_countries_and_confederations.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/15/World_fo...
- Proven 7y ago
  That doesn't make any sense, but at least it's consistent with the rest of the climate changes mumbo jumbo. Why should somebody living today be taxed for CO2 emissions from the time before they were born?

by wpasc 7y ago

ido 7y ago

I would guess poorer countries' citizens produce less co2 per capita due to using less resources?

efitz 7y ago

It doesn't track outcomes, it tracks policy. The China and India ratings make it clear that they aren't tracking effectiveness or whether the policies are even being implemented.

caseysoftware 7y ago
That's a small but hugely important distinction that I didn't see disclosed up front. By that reasoning, the alcoholic who promises "to never drink again!" is on the right track even if he's at the bar drinking right now.
- godelski 7y ago
  This is the main criticism with a lot of these comparisons. That it doesn't help us solve the problem but rather does virtue signaling. I think a better comparison is maps like these[0], though they don't tell the full story either. No one map will. Unsurprisingly, climate is a multifaceted and complex problem that is extremely difficult to solve and needs much more than policy to solve. [0] https://www.electricitymap.org/?wind=false&solar=false&page=country&countryCode=FR&remote=true https://www.electricitymap.org/?wind=false&solar=false&page=...
- JungleGymSam 7y ago
  Exactly. This is just alarmism.

evandijk70 7y ago

They have vastly different CO2 emission goals according to what is 'fair', compare: https://climateactiontracker.org/countries/usa/ https://climateactiontracker.org/countries/usa/ with: https://climateactiontracker.org/countries/china/ https://climateactiontracker.org/countries/china/ Despite that China's CO2 emissions are increasing and the US emissions are decreasing, China meets its goal while the US does not. The following page explains how these goals were set https://climateactiontracker.org/methodology/comparability-of-effort/ https://climateactiontracker.org/methodology/comparability-o...

imtringued 7y ago

Global temperatures are not influenced by yearly emissions. The driving factor of climate change are cumulative emissions over the last 2 centuries. China is a huge emitter but their emissions only started rising 20 years ago. [0] Their cumulative emissions are still significantly below USA. [0] https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/15/World_fossil_carbon_dioxide_emissions_six_top_countries_and_confederations.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/15/World_fo...

Proven 7y ago
That doesn't make any sense, but at least it's consistent with the rest of the climate changes mumbo jumbo. Why should somebody living today be taxed for CO2 emissions from the time before they were born?