5 ms·

I don't use sci-hub, but the framing "Sci-Hub users cost ASA journals thousands of downloads" presumes something: it presumes that without sci-hub, ASA journals

I don't use sci-hub, but the framing "Sci-Hub users cost ASA journals thousands of downloads" presumes something: it presumes that without sci-hub, ASA journals would have thousands of more downloads. This could very well be false: without sci-hub, people might instead use arxiv and the like; perhaps sci-hub brings journals thousands of downloads they would not have if sci-hub didn't exist. As I don't use it I can't say if this might be accurate, though.

317070 7y ago
Or, people might not have published to ASA journals if their papers would not have been easily accessible from sci-hub.
crispinb 7y ago
I use it a fair bit for a variety of purposes. Without Sci-Hub, given the astonishingly high pricing usually involved I certainly wouldn't be paying for the articles. I'd be managing without as best I can. Sci-Hub doesn't give me information for free I'd otherwise have to pay for - rather it provides information I'd otherwise have little access to.
tudorw 7y ago
We went through this with MP3, record industry claimed every download was costing them money, that is was the end of the world as we know it, they would wither and die without copyright protection, while at the same time, more people were listening to more music, and look where we are now...
- piracyadvocate 7y ago
  Didn't iTunes store used to be DRM free? (I never actually had any apple device so I'm not sure)
  - Macha 7y ago
    Other way around - it used to have DRM and removed it a few years in
piracyadvocate 7y ago
>This could very well be false: without sci-hub, people might instead use arxiv and the like; perhaps sci-hub brings journals thousands of downloads they would not have if sci-hub didn't exist. There was that study in EU that said piracy actually helped the game industry. There is also what the author was commenting, sci-hub is easier to use than the legal alternative. We go tour researchers stuck in bureaucracies, to access papers funded by taxpayers! As Gabe Newel said, to fight piracy, you provide a better service (Steam was the biggest hit to game piracy, and so was Netflix for series and movies), instead of that, what we see is more control/bureaucracy being added. edit: https://www.engadget.com/2017/09/22/eu-suppressed-study-piracy-no-sales-impact/ https://www.engadget.com/2017/09/22/eu-suppressed-study-pira... it's an old study (2013), but I doubt the situation got worse. In videogame land the greatest example is The Witcher 3, easiest game to pirate, has it was distributed without DRM, you could just copy your friends installer. It was still on the top of steam most played single player game(which requires the key to be unique), won a lot of awards, and got so much exposure that netflix has released a TV show...
- zozbot234 7y ago
  HN is getting novelty usernames now? That was a bit, um, unsettling.
  - piracyadvocate 7y ago
    Well, I didn't want to associate pro-piracy views with my main account. That account should be for tech discussion only, without politics. Identity on the internet is forever.
- catalogia 7y ago
  It's hard to imagine how a legal service could be better than Sci-hub. You could make it as good as sci-hub, but how could you make it easier than "paste DOI -> PDF is downloaded"? Steam beats video game piracy because video game piracy requires shit like having a torrent client or having a friend who has a copy already. Video game piracy was never as easy as sci-hub.
xiphias2 7y ago
Of course you're right, but the article acnowledges that at some point. I'm not a researcher, but download lots of articles just as general curiousity. I definitely wouldn't have $30 for each download, as I'm not profiting of it at all.
Terretta 7y ago
Requesting a song from a DJ so you can tape it from the radio for free costs record labels millions!

317070 7y ago

Or, people might not have published to ASA journals if their papers would not have been easily accessible from sci-hub.

crispinb 7y ago

I use it a fair bit for a variety of purposes. Without Sci-Hub, given the astonishingly high pricing usually involved I certainly wouldn't be paying for the articles. I'd be managing without as best I can. Sci-Hub doesn't give me information for free I'd otherwise have to pay for - rather it provides information I'd otherwise have little access to.

tudorw 7y ago

We went through this with MP3, record industry claimed every download was costing them money, that is was the end of the world as we know it, they would wither and die without copyright protection, while at the same time, more people were listening to more music, and look where we are now...

piracyadvocate 7y ago
Didn't iTunes store used to be DRM free? (I never actually had any apple device so I'm not sure)
- Macha 7y ago
  Other way around - it used to have DRM and removed it a few years in

piracyadvocate 7y ago

>This could very well be false: without sci-hub, people might instead use arxiv and the like; perhaps sci-hub brings journals thousands of downloads they would not have if sci-hub didn't exist. There was that study in EU that said piracy actually helped the game industry. There is also what the author was commenting, sci-hub is easier to use than the legal alternative. We go tour researchers stuck in bureaucracies, to access papers funded by taxpayers! As Gabe Newel said, to fight piracy, you provide a better service (Steam was the biggest hit to game piracy, and so was Netflix for series and movies), instead of that, what we see is more control/bureaucracy being added. edit: https://www.engadget.com/2017/09/22/eu-suppressed-study-piracy-no-sales-impact/ https://www.engadget.com/2017/09/22/eu-suppressed-study-pira... it's an old study (2013), but I doubt the situation got worse. In videogame land the greatest example is The Witcher 3, easiest game to pirate, has it was distributed without DRM, you could just copy your friends installer. It was still on the top of steam most played single player game(which requires the key to be unique), won a lot of awards, and got so much exposure that netflix has released a TV show...

zozbot234 7y ago
HN is getting novelty usernames now? That was a bit, um, unsettling.
- piracyadvocate 7y ago
  Well, I didn't want to associate pro-piracy views with my main account. That account should be for tech discussion only, without politics. Identity on the internet is forever.
catalogia 7y ago
It's hard to imagine how a legal service could be better than Sci-hub. You could make it as good as sci-hub, but how could you make it easier than "paste DOI -> PDF is downloaded"? Steam beats video game piracy because video game piracy requires shit like having a torrent client or having a friend who has a copy already. Video game piracy was never as easy as sci-hub.

xiphias2 7y ago

Of course you're right, but the article acnowledges that at some point. I'm not a researcher, but download lots of articles just as general curiousity. I definitely wouldn't have $30 for each download, as I'm not profiting of it at all.

Terretta 7y ago

Requesting a song from a DJ so you can tape it from the radio for free costs record labels millions!