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I think of this as I drive 30ish miles each way to work. 5 miles of surface roads, 19 miles of interstate (2 lanes each way), and 6 miles of surface (2 lanes e

I think of this as I drive 30ish miles each way to work. 5 miles of surface roads, 19 miles of interstate (2 lanes each way), and 6 miles of surface (2 lanes each way). One cause for increased construction is the need for more capacity. My frequent lament is poor driving habits. We have regular instances of sub-optimal speeds in both lanes. A 65 mph limit and vehicles driving 55mph in both lanes, frequently with 1/4 of open lane ahead. Vehicles behind begin to crowd and we experience the slinky effect. After 3 years we add another lane. And the cycle continues. Driver education used to emphasize keeping right except to pass. I think this isn't taught anymore.

rahimnathwani 7y ago
I was surprised to read this in the California DMV driver handbook: "If you can choose among three lanes, pick the middle lane for the smoothest driving." When I learned to drive (in the UK), the official guidance was to stay in the left-most lane except when overtaking. And then, after overtaking, to immediately return to the left lane.
- skybrian 7y ago
  That's still mostly true in the US for the more rural areas. Interstate highways often have two lanes in each direction. For denser areas with multilane highways that are entirely in use, the best you can say is that the people in the passing lane probably want to go faster. :-)
- shaftway 7y ago
  That feels pretty legit to me. I don't remember reading that, but when I drive a car and I've got more than 2 lanes to choose from, I usually end up in the middle. The right lane always has people merging, either to enter or exit, or trucks lumbering along at 45. The left lane always has someone wanting to do 90 in a 55. Middle is the smoothest, from a traffic flow perspective. On a motorcycle it's all about riding between the left-most and its neighbor. More cars expect you there because most motorcycles ride there, so they make more room. The next lane-line is a death trap, from cars in the second lane moving over for a motorcyclist over there.
  - rahimnathwani 7y ago
    "The right lane always has people merging, either to enter or exit, or trucks lumbering along at 45." Interesting perspective. I feel a little differently: - cars meeting to enter shouldn't affect you, because it's their responsibility to get to the right speed and time their entry to a gap; an entering car should never cause you to need to change speed or direction - an exiting car shouldn't affect you, because there's usually no reason for them to slow down before exit - you can overtake the slow trucks when you encounter them: just change lanes to overtake, and then pull back into the right lane afterwards Driving in the middle lane is optimal from each driver's own perspective but, globally, it reduces road capacity and increases journey times.
    - NoSorryCannot 7y ago
      This seems a little bit idealistic. People merging onto the highway are supposed to reach highway speed before attempting to merge, but they very often do not do that. And they're supposed to to find a gap, but there may not be one or other drivers may deliberately try to deny them one. The merging lane may be very short. The merging car may start to change lanes even if it's not safe to do so. Congestion may require more deliberately courteous behavior. The right lane often has many trucks clustered together and rote exercise of the keep-right rule will require an excessive amount of lane changing. And on a limited access highway, lane changing is the most dangerous routine maneuver so one should be thoughtful of balancing lane changing with expediency. And the idea that a driver has no responsibility to accommodate another merging driver, if applied strictly, also means that one cannot always leave the right lane at will, because driver in the left lane are not permitting. So you change speed a lot, which is rough on fuel efficiency and precludes cruise control if it's adaptive. Being religious about keep-right is kind of miserable on a congested highway, especially one with a differential of speed speed limits depending on vehicle type. The people most steadfast about traffic laws get punished at the pleasure of people who flout them, which doesn't seem correct.
      - rahimnathwani 7y ago
        "The people most steadfast about traffic laws get punished at the pleasure of people who flout them, which doesn't seem correct." Exactly. Each person acting in their own self-interest causes a reduction in road capacity and longer journey times. Those who try to stay in the right-most lane that's going their speed don't gain anything for themselves, as they only increase road capacity for people behind them.
- dmurray 7y ago
  I've noticed while driving in the US that American highway exits seem to be designed differently than those in the UK. The rightmost lane of three-lane highways will often become the exit lane, so if you stick to the rightmost lane you'll frequently need to switch lanes to your left to stay on the road. In the UK, in contrast, the exit lane is usually the new lane, and you have to switch lanes to get into it. So instead of constant lane switching, use the middle lane for going straight ahead, and the leftmost lane for passing.
  - wahern 7y ago
    That depends on the region and age of the road. In more rural areas where the freeways are newer things are much more consistent and usually just as you'd expect. In older areas like New York or California where many of the freeways predate the Federal Interstate system, and where lane expansions, lane extensions, and exits have grown far more organically, there are inconsistent designs (although often consistent within the time period) and even bizarre, one-off stuff. California didn't even adhere to Federal Interstate guidelines for exit numbering until relatively recently (sometime in the early to mid 2000s, IIRC), decades after most other states. California's scheme predated the Federal Interstate system and they weren't keen on changing it.
    - cpitman 7y ago
      Only tangentially related, but New Jersey has a special case of this. It used to be all in on "jug-handles" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jughandle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jughandle), where you would need to be in the rightmost lane in order to make a "left" turn. But they have also built intersections that have the standard left turn lane, on the left. You only know which one it is as you approach the intersection, then either need to get all the way to the left or right. Always a fun surprise!
    - THE_PUN_STOPS 7y ago
      >California's scheme predated the Federal Interstate system and they weren't keen on changing it. Massachusetts is about to embark on a project to renumber all of their exits per federal mandate. The consensus is that the only way they can take "exit 17"[1] from us is by lasering it out of our brains. I know people who are planning a guerilla renumbering campaign for this sign after it is harmonized. [1]: https://i.imgur.com/3X8gIOf.jpg https://i.imgur.com/3X8gIOf.jpg
- nitwit005 7y ago
  California has a lower speed limit of 55 mph for trucks: https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=VEH&sectionNum=22406 https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySectio... This means that they generally stay in the rightmost lane, as slower traffic is supposed to keep right.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- jibe 7y ago
  Wait a sec, you drive on the opposite side of the road in the UK, so the advice to stay in the left lane except for overtaking is the equivalent of the advice here to stay to the right, or out of the left lane except when passing.
  - rahimnathwani 7y ago
    "is the equivalent of the advice here to stay to the right" Yeah, but the advice in the California DMV handbook is to stay in the middle, not the right. The difference is that, in the UK, the middle lane is explicitly only for overtaking. If you're going the same speed as the cars in the left lane, you're not overtaking, so you shouldn't be in the middle lane. California's guidance is directly contrary to this.
    - pg_is_a_butt 7y ago
      Your comment is directly contrary to itself.
    - kevin_thibedeau 7y ago
      In the US there is no priority with 3+ lanes. You can legally plod along in the left lane without passing anyone. The middle is a safe option to avoid conflicts on either side. For two lanes you are supposed to leave the left/high-speed lane for passing only.
      - nitrogen 7y ago
        That really depends on the state. In Utah, for example, the law requires left lane drivers to move over if they are being passed on the right. Some other states explicitly designate the left lane for passing only.
      - masonic 7y ago
        In the US there is no priority with 3+ lanes There is no monolithic Nationwide vehicle code. Laws can vary state to state. You can legally plod along in the left lane without passing anyone. Generally false. Definitely false in CA: Slower traffic keep right, notwithstanding speed limits.
- opportune 7y ago
  I stay in the middle lanes most of the time on the 101 because they are constantly adding/removing lanes or onramps with quickly disappearing lanes. Easier to stay in the middle than constantly deal with California drivers merging into your lane. I have had a lot of close calls where people behaved very irrationally merging onto the highway. Best to avoid it
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- briffle 7y ago
  Oregon has a law that if you have 5 or more vehicles behind you, you must let them pass. It's more for the highways, not the freeway, but I haven't seen it enforced in many, many years
  - grifball 7y ago
    Do you have a link? All I could find is this: https://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/811.425 https://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/811.425 Not doubting you, just wanna know.
  - scarejunba 7y ago
    California has this: > Vehicles proceeding at a speed less than the flow of traffic and moving on a two-lane highway where passing is unsafe, must turn off the roadway at the nearest place designated as a turnout or wherever sufficient area for a safe turnout exists, if a line of 5 or more vehicles forms behind them. https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/detail/pubs/hdbk/driver_handbook_toc/!ut/p/z1/hY6xDsIgGISfyPxYo0lH1IZW2rhVZCEgtZAqEKwdfHpJd-ttl3x3-YADA-7kZHs5Wu_kI_Ur3wlaHYt1SRAl2xojTMvy3BZtRvINXGYA_QhGwJf3p39AMshic2h64EGOZmXd3QMLb_UCZrQagOlopy4KI51W3g9i9LekxefjBbHwZJ96n1dfdmaJZA!!/?1dmy&urile=wcm%3Apath%3A%2Fdmv_content_en%2Fdmv%2B%2B%2Fpubs%2Fhdbk%2Fshr_slow_veh https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/detail/pubs/hdbk/driver_ha...
- Maultasche 7y ago
  That is indeed the rule in European countries I've driven in and (modified for which side of the road is being driven on) some US states (like Oregon) have similar rules. California, on the other hand, allows people to drive in whatever lane they feel like for however long they feel like as long as they maintain sufficient speed. The slower traffic is supposed to stay to the right and the faster traffic is supposed to stay to the left. The police can intervene if they feel that someone is driving too slow in the wrong lane, but I've never seen that happen. There are no rules in California to prevent overtaking on the right, so you can choose which lane you want to move into to overtake someone.
beerandt 7y ago
To get people to respect the passing lane, I propose: Left-most lane on controlled access highways should be rear car, by default, has the right-of-way.
- MuffinFlavored 7y ago
  In my experience, this really only encourages "king of the road, get out of my way" behavior. Source: South Floridian driver who does felonious speeds in the left lane (typically in a speeding convoy, with everybody else doing the same speeds, if not higher)
  - beerandt 7y ago
    It's never been tested, to my knowledge. To be clear, I'm not suggesting people tailgate and drive aggressively in the left lane. I'm literally suggesting cars in the left lane have to legally yield to overtaking traffic from behind, just as passing on a two lane highway requires yielding to oncoming traffic. And I would expect behavior improvement, if nothing else, on the fact that ambiguity is removed and time of conflict is reduced. >king of the road, get out of my way" behavior. I get that's not something people might want to "encourage" , but a certain amount of conflict and congestion is resolved by allowing the people who think they're king, be king in the left lane. If you don't want to go faster than the car behind you, you can be king in the right (or any other) lane. It might not feel right based on principle, but in a practical sense it solves a lot.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- ldoughty 7y ago
  If I'm passing at 5 over the limit, I'm still passing. I waited my turn. Not my fault I don't want to go 20+ over. I'll move back when the passed car is in my rear view. Oh, you really to ride my rear, and pay me on the right? Will Joe we have a problem because I'm happy merged into the right line and you're on my as, and now you're 3 feet from both me and the car were passing. That's what I got from this comment... Just forget encourages already aggressive driving. Of course, some people do not pass, and that is frustrating.
pg_is_a_butt 7y ago
Driver education doesn't matter when it stops at 16 years old. I've been in cars with these bad drivers doing less than the speed limit in the left lane... I told them they should get over... they said they prefer to drive "in the fast lane"... like they'll get there faster. They stayed in the left lane until the exit, and then exit across 2 lanes. I don't see how you can help these people.
cortesoft 7y ago
Where I live (Los Angeles), all the lanes are filled all the time. There is no passing lane, so it doesn’t matter which lane you drive in. The skill that is important for drivers to have is the zipper merge, because those are happening all the time as fully utilized lanes merge and split. I am actually usually pretty impressed with LA drivers. Most respect the zipper merge.
- asdff 7y ago
  >Most respect the zipper merge. Most. Maybe 1/10 are that prick that believes you merging in front of them is an affront to their pride, and opts to block you from entering or exiting the freeway. I see this most on the 10, but also on the 110 going from pasadena to downtown when you have to merge over 3 lanes to stay on the freeway then merge back 3 lanes to get on the 10 west.
  - pentae 7y ago
    I wouldn't let it bother you too much.. For every prick like that theres another prick like myself who is willing to smash up their front bumper with the rear of my vehicle to make a point. Interestingly, they always cede your right of way when you don't hesitate.
    - hinkley 7y ago
      Ah, I recall as a young man when the guy in the shiny SUV would try to cut you off because they had a bigger vehicle. I felt like I could tell the moment when they realized that the repairs on their car would be more expensive than my entire car, and slink back into their lane.
      - Gibbon1 7y ago
        There is no freedom like being a sketchy looking guy driving an old van.
        7y ago
habosa 7y ago
I recently drove around Spain for 2 weeks. My first significant international driving experience. I was shocked at how seriously they took the rule of only passing on the left. Every single car in the right line was driving slower than every single car in the left. It made driving so much better. The behavior of every car was basically predictable. I've never seen anyone pay much attention to their lane here.
- Stevvo 7y ago
  In all of Europe, undertaking is illegal. When we come to the US, driving feels like you are in a third world country.
  - bartread 7y ago
    In the UK it's actually not illegal: it's just advised against, and considered bad form in most situations by most drivers. And, of course, if you cause an accident by undertaking the police will (rightly) throw the book at you. Examples where it's considered acceptable to undertake: - In heavier or queuing traffic inside lanes might move faster than outside lanes: this is OK, and it's considered better and safer to stay in lane than keep changing lanes to overtake. - Motorcycles filtering through traffic, which generally occurs between the middle and outside lane on motorways. Where gaps are bigger motorcyclists will often move from the outside to middle lanes to get around slow moving vehicles in the outside lane. Again, this tends to apply when traffic is heavier.
    - onion2k 7y ago
      If you do it on a reasonably clear road to get around someone hogging an overtaking lane, and the police see you, they're going to pull you over and give you a fixed penalty notice for careless driving though. I know this from experience.
      - jamiek88 7y ago
        Me too! M4 from London to Cardiff for the Ryder Cup. Had lived in Texas for years, was fresh off the plane and forgot it wasn't legal. No mercy shown! Jokes on them though I never paid the ticket and I'm never going to.
asdff 7y ago
It depends on the state. In Ohio you will actually get pulled over all the time for hanging out in the left lane. Not so in California in my experience so far.
tonyedgecombe 7y ago
* One cause for increased construction is the need for more capacity.* Adding new capacity to shorten journey times is a fools errand. The new capacity soon fills up as longer and more commutes become acceptable.
- imtringued 7y ago
  Yes the motivation is completely wrong here. You build more lanes to increase throughput not to decrease latency!
- dsfyu404ed 7y ago
  Adding more capacity means more trips can happen at the same cost (time being the one we're discussing here) which is of benefit to society.
MisterTea 7y ago
I have a similar commute and experience the same thing. People dragging along in left and middle lanes. This winds up aggravating selfish and entitled road rage types who then proceed to tailgate and forcibly cut across to get around these people. One thing about driving, it's the closest we get to bellum omnium contra omnes. You don't see the other vehicles as an extension of the driver, a person, but rather a singular inhuman being you want to fight. People lose their humanity on the road. > I think this isn't taught anymore. Driver instruction is a joke here in the USA. I got my license around 2001 in NYC. The test was 20 brain dead questions such as "what sign is this: [school crossing]" and you look up and on the wall is a huge PSA poster of the school crossing sign with the slogan "Schools open. Drive carefully." So they practically gave the answers away. Driving school is optional and all they do is show you an hour long video that nobody watched which the proctor turned off after 15 min. Then you drive around the neighborhood for a half an hour with two others and an instructor a few days. No rules of the road, no etiquette, no nothing. The tests should be much harder, rules and etiquette drilled. The bar must be raised. I'll give the CDL (commercial Drivers License) more credit. It's the equivalent to what I think is an HGV license in Europe. Though I never got the license I took the test for class A with as many endorsements as I could(tank, hazmat, and doubles/triples). Quite challenging and you have to know how some of the systems on the truck work such as air brakes. I failed it the first go as I thought I knew better but some old terminology tripped me up.

rahimnathwani 7y ago

I was surprised to read this in the California DMV driver handbook: "If you can choose among three lanes, pick the middle lane for the smoothest driving." When I learned to drive (in the UK), the official guidance was to stay in the left-most lane except when overtaking. And then, after overtaking, to immediately return to the left lane.

skybrian 7y ago
That's still mostly true in the US for the more rural areas. Interstate highways often have two lanes in each direction. For denser areas with multilane highways that are entirely in use, the best you can say is that the people in the passing lane probably want to go faster. :-)
shaftway 7y ago
That feels pretty legit to me. I don't remember reading that, but when I drive a car and I've got more than 2 lanes to choose from, I usually end up in the middle. The right lane always has people merging, either to enter or exit, or trucks lumbering along at 45. The left lane always has someone wanting to do 90 in a 55. Middle is the smoothest, from a traffic flow perspective. On a motorcycle it's all about riding between the left-most and its neighbor. More cars expect you there because most motorcycles ride there, so they make more room. The next lane-line is a death trap, from cars in the second lane moving over for a motorcyclist over there.
- rahimnathwani 7y ago
  "The right lane always has people merging, either to enter or exit, or trucks lumbering along at 45." Interesting perspective. I feel a little differently: - cars meeting to enter shouldn't affect you, because it's their responsibility to get to the right speed and time their entry to a gap; an entering car should never cause you to need to change speed or direction - an exiting car shouldn't affect you, because there's usually no reason for them to slow down before exit - you can overtake the slow trucks when you encounter them: just change lanes to overtake, and then pull back into the right lane afterwards Driving in the middle lane is optimal from each driver's own perspective but, globally, it reduces road capacity and increases journey times.
  - NoSorryCannot 7y ago
    This seems a little bit idealistic. People merging onto the highway are supposed to reach highway speed before attempting to merge, but they very often do not do that. And they're supposed to to find a gap, but there may not be one or other drivers may deliberately try to deny them one. The merging lane may be very short. The merging car may start to change lanes even if it's not safe to do so. Congestion may require more deliberately courteous behavior. The right lane often has many trucks clustered together and rote exercise of the keep-right rule will require an excessive amount of lane changing. And on a limited access highway, lane changing is the most dangerous routine maneuver so one should be thoughtful of balancing lane changing with expediency. And the idea that a driver has no responsibility to accommodate another merging driver, if applied strictly, also means that one cannot always leave the right lane at will, because driver in the left lane are not permitting. So you change speed a lot, which is rough on fuel efficiency and precludes cruise control if it's adaptive. Being religious about keep-right is kind of miserable on a congested highway, especially one with a differential of speed speed limits depending on vehicle type. The people most steadfast about traffic laws get punished at the pleasure of people who flout them, which doesn't seem correct.
    - rahimnathwani 7y ago
      "The people most steadfast about traffic laws get punished at the pleasure of people who flout them, which doesn't seem correct." Exactly. Each person acting in their own self-interest causes a reduction in road capacity and longer journey times. Those who try to stay in the right-most lane that's going their speed don't gain anything for themselves, as they only increase road capacity for people behind them.
dmurray 7y ago
I've noticed while driving in the US that American highway exits seem to be designed differently than those in the UK. The rightmost lane of three-lane highways will often become the exit lane, so if you stick to the rightmost lane you'll frequently need to switch lanes to your left to stay on the road. In the UK, in contrast, the exit lane is usually the new lane, and you have to switch lanes to get into it. So instead of constant lane switching, use the middle lane for going straight ahead, and the leftmost lane for passing.
- wahern 7y ago
  That depends on the region and age of the road. In more rural areas where the freeways are newer things are much more consistent and usually just as you'd expect. In older areas like New York or California where many of the freeways predate the Federal Interstate system, and where lane expansions, lane extensions, and exits have grown far more organically, there are inconsistent designs (although often consistent within the time period) and even bizarre, one-off stuff. California didn't even adhere to Federal Interstate guidelines for exit numbering until relatively recently (sometime in the early to mid 2000s, IIRC), decades after most other states. California's scheme predated the Federal Interstate system and they weren't keen on changing it.
  - cpitman 7y ago
    Only tangentially related, but New Jersey has a special case of this. It used to be all in on "jug-handles" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jughandle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jughandle), where you would need to be in the rightmost lane in order to make a "left" turn. But they have also built intersections that have the standard left turn lane, on the left. You only know which one it is as you approach the intersection, then either need to get all the way to the left or right. Always a fun surprise!
  - THE_PUN_STOPS 7y ago
    >California's scheme predated the Federal Interstate system and they weren't keen on changing it. Massachusetts is about to embark on a project to renumber all of their exits per federal mandate. The consensus is that the only way they can take "exit 17"[1] from us is by lasering it out of our brains. I know people who are planning a guerilla renumbering campaign for this sign after it is harmonized. [1]: https://i.imgur.com/3X8gIOf.jpg https://i.imgur.com/3X8gIOf.jpg
nitwit005 7y ago
California has a lower speed limit of 55 mph for trucks: https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=VEH&sectionNum=22406 https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySectio... This means that they generally stay in the rightmost lane, as slower traffic is supposed to keep right.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
jibe 7y ago
Wait a sec, you drive on the opposite side of the road in the UK, so the advice to stay in the left lane except for overtaking is the equivalent of the advice here to stay to the right, or out of the left lane except when passing.
- rahimnathwani 7y ago
  "is the equivalent of the advice here to stay to the right" Yeah, but the advice in the California DMV handbook is to stay in the middle, not the right. The difference is that, in the UK, the middle lane is explicitly only for overtaking. If you're going the same speed as the cars in the left lane, you're not overtaking, so you shouldn't be in the middle lane. California's guidance is directly contrary to this.
  - pg_is_a_butt 7y ago
    Your comment is directly contrary to itself.
  - kevin_thibedeau 7y ago
    In the US there is no priority with 3+ lanes. You can legally plod along in the left lane without passing anyone. The middle is a safe option to avoid conflicts on either side. For two lanes you are supposed to leave the left/high-speed lane for passing only.
    - nitrogen 7y ago
      That really depends on the state. In Utah, for example, the law requires left lane drivers to move over if they are being passed on the right. Some other states explicitly designate the left lane for passing only.
    - masonic 7y ago
      In the US there is no priority with 3+ lanes There is no monolithic Nationwide vehicle code. Laws can vary state to state. You can legally plod along in the left lane without passing anyone. Generally false. Definitely false in CA: Slower traffic keep right, notwithstanding speed limits.
opportune 7y ago
I stay in the middle lanes most of the time on the 101 because they are constantly adding/removing lanes or onramps with quickly disappearing lanes. Easier to stay in the middle than constantly deal with California drivers merging into your lane. I have had a lot of close calls where people behaved very irrationally merging onto the highway. Best to avoid it
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
briffle 7y ago
Oregon has a law that if you have 5 or more vehicles behind you, you must let them pass. It's more for the highways, not the freeway, but I haven't seen it enforced in many, many years
- grifball 7y ago
  Do you have a link? All I could find is this: https://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/811.425 https://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/811.425 Not doubting you, just wanna know.
- scarejunba 7y ago
  California has this: > Vehicles proceeding at a speed less than the flow of traffic and moving on a two-lane highway where passing is unsafe, must turn off the roadway at the nearest place designated as a turnout or wherever sufficient area for a safe turnout exists, if a line of 5 or more vehicles forms behind them. https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/detail/pubs/hdbk/driver_handbook_toc/!ut/p/z1/hY6xDsIgGISfyPxYo0lH1IZW2rhVZCEgtZAqEKwdfHpJd-ttl3x3-YADA-7kZHs5Wu_kI_Ur3wlaHYt1SRAl2xojTMvy3BZtRvINXGYA_QhGwJf3p39AMshic2h64EGOZmXd3QMLb_UCZrQagOlopy4KI51W3g9i9LekxefjBbHwZJ96n1dfdmaJZA!!/?1dmy&urile=wcm%3Apath%3A%2Fdmv_content_en%2Fdmv%2B%2B%2Fpubs%2Fhdbk%2Fshr_slow_veh https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/detail/pubs/hdbk/driver_ha...
Maultasche 7y ago
That is indeed the rule in European countries I've driven in and (modified for which side of the road is being driven on) some US states (like Oregon) have similar rules. California, on the other hand, allows people to drive in whatever lane they feel like for however long they feel like as long as they maintain sufficient speed. The slower traffic is supposed to stay to the right and the faster traffic is supposed to stay to the left. The police can intervene if they feel that someone is driving too slow in the wrong lane, but I've never seen that happen. There are no rules in California to prevent overtaking on the right, so you can choose which lane you want to move into to overtake someone.

beerandt 7y ago

To get people to respect the passing lane, I propose: Left-most lane on controlled access highways should be rear car, by default, has the right-of-way.

MuffinFlavored 7y ago
In my experience, this really only encourages "king of the road, get out of my way" behavior. Source: South Floridian driver who does felonious speeds in the left lane (typically in a speeding convoy, with everybody else doing the same speeds, if not higher)
- beerandt 7y ago
  It's never been tested, to my knowledge. To be clear, I'm not suggesting people tailgate and drive aggressively in the left lane. I'm literally suggesting cars in the left lane have to legally yield to overtaking traffic from behind, just as passing on a two lane highway requires yielding to oncoming traffic. And I would expect behavior improvement, if nothing else, on the fact that ambiguity is removed and time of conflict is reduced. >king of the road, get out of my way" behavior. I get that's not something people might want to "encourage" , but a certain amount of conflict and congestion is resolved by allowing the people who think they're king, be king in the left lane. If you don't want to go faster than the car behind you, you can be king in the right (or any other) lane. It might not feel right based on principle, but in a practical sense it solves a lot.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
ldoughty 7y ago
If I'm passing at 5 over the limit, I'm still passing. I waited my turn. Not my fault I don't want to go 20+ over. I'll move back when the passed car is in my rear view. Oh, you really to ride my rear, and pay me on the right? Will Joe we have a problem because I'm happy merged into the right line and you're on my as, and now you're 3 feet from both me and the car were passing. That's what I got from this comment... Just forget encourages already aggressive driving. Of course, some people do not pass, and that is frustrating.

pg_is_a_butt 7y ago

Driver education doesn't matter when it stops at 16 years old. I've been in cars with these bad drivers doing less than the speed limit in the left lane... I told them they should get over... they said they prefer to drive "in the fast lane"... like they'll get there faster. They stayed in the left lane until the exit, and then exit across 2 lanes. I don't see how you can help these people.

cortesoft 7y ago

Where I live (Los Angeles), all the lanes are filled all the time. There is no passing lane, so it doesn’t matter which lane you drive in. The skill that is important for drivers to have is the zipper merge, because those are happening all the time as fully utilized lanes merge and split. I am actually usually pretty impressed with LA drivers. Most respect the zipper merge.

asdff 7y ago
>Most respect the zipper merge. Most. Maybe 1/10 are that prick that believes you merging in front of them is an affront to their pride, and opts to block you from entering or exiting the freeway. I see this most on the 10, but also on the 110 going from pasadena to downtown when you have to merge over 3 lanes to stay on the freeway then merge back 3 lanes to get on the 10 west.
- pentae 7y ago
  I wouldn't let it bother you too much.. For every prick like that theres another prick like myself who is willing to smash up their front bumper with the rear of my vehicle to make a point. Interestingly, they always cede your right of way when you don't hesitate.
  - hinkley 7y ago
    Ah, I recall as a young man when the guy in the shiny SUV would try to cut you off because they had a bigger vehicle. I felt like I could tell the moment when they realized that the repairs on their car would be more expensive than my entire car, and slink back into their lane.
    - Gibbon1 7y ago
      There is no freedom like being a sketchy looking guy driving an old van.
      - 7y ago

habosa 7y ago

I recently drove around Spain for 2 weeks. My first significant international driving experience. I was shocked at how seriously they took the rule of only passing on the left. Every single car in the right line was driving slower than every single car in the left. It made driving so much better. The behavior of every car was basically predictable. I've never seen anyone pay much attention to their lane here.

Stevvo 7y ago
In all of Europe, undertaking is illegal. When we come to the US, driving feels like you are in a third world country.
- bartread 7y ago
  In the UK it's actually not illegal: it's just advised against, and considered bad form in most situations by most drivers. And, of course, if you cause an accident by undertaking the police will (rightly) throw the book at you. Examples where it's considered acceptable to undertake: - In heavier or queuing traffic inside lanes might move faster than outside lanes: this is OK, and it's considered better and safer to stay in lane than keep changing lanes to overtake. - Motorcycles filtering through traffic, which generally occurs between the middle and outside lane on motorways. Where gaps are bigger motorcyclists will often move from the outside to middle lanes to get around slow moving vehicles in the outside lane. Again, this tends to apply when traffic is heavier.
  - onion2k 7y ago
    If you do it on a reasonably clear road to get around someone hogging an overtaking lane, and the police see you, they're going to pull you over and give you a fixed penalty notice for careless driving though. I know this from experience.
    - jamiek88 7y ago
      Me too! M4 from London to Cardiff for the Ryder Cup. Had lived in Texas for years, was fresh off the plane and forgot it wasn't legal. No mercy shown! Jokes on them though I never paid the ticket and I'm never going to.

asdff 7y ago

It depends on the state. In Ohio you will actually get pulled over all the time for hanging out in the left lane. Not so in California in my experience so far.

tonyedgecombe 7y ago

* One cause for increased construction is the need for more capacity.* Adding new capacity to shorten journey times is a fools errand. The new capacity soon fills up as longer and more commutes become acceptable.

imtringued 7y ago
Yes the motivation is completely wrong here. You build more lanes to increase throughput not to decrease latency!
dsfyu404ed 7y ago
Adding more capacity means more trips can happen at the same cost (time being the one we're discussing here) which is of benefit to society.

MisterTea 7y ago

I have a similar commute and experience the same thing. People dragging along in left and middle lanes. This winds up aggravating selfish and entitled road rage types who then proceed to tailgate and forcibly cut across to get around these people. One thing about driving, it's the closest we get to bellum omnium contra omnes. You don't see the other vehicles as an extension of the driver, a person, but rather a singular inhuman being you want to fight. People lose their humanity on the road. > I think this isn't taught anymore. Driver instruction is a joke here in the USA. I got my license around 2001 in NYC. The test was 20 brain dead questions such as "what sign is this: [school crossing]" and you look up and on the wall is a huge PSA poster of the school crossing sign with the slogan "Schools open. Drive carefully." So they practically gave the answers away. Driving school is optional and all they do is show you an hour long video that nobody watched which the proctor turned off after 15 min. Then you drive around the neighborhood for a half an hour with two others and an instructor a few days. No rules of the road, no etiquette, no nothing. The tests should be much harder, rules and etiquette drilled. The bar must be raised. I'll give the CDL (commercial Drivers License) more credit. It's the equivalent to what I think is an HGV license in Europe. Though I never got the license I took the test for class A with as many endorsements as I could(tank, hazmat, and doubles/triples). Quite challenging and you have to know how some of the systems on the truck work such as air brakes. I failed it the first go as I thought I knew better but some old terminology tripped me up.