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Making the decision to host a conference in Israel in the first place is a form of political posturing, as is message censorship. If they truly wanted to be apo

Making the decision to host a conference in Israel in the first place is a form of political posturing, as is message censorship. If they truly wanted to be apolitical (and it appears that Alexander Wirt very much does not) they could have held it somewhere more neutral (e.g. Turkey).

DoofusOfDeath 7y ago
I don't have any inside knowledge on this. But I would think choosing any particular country could be interpreted as posturing by some group.
tompccs 7y ago
Are you serious? There was an article on HN just yesterday about how Turkey censored Wikipedia for two years. I think a lot of Israeli engineers would just like to be able to host conferences without it turning into a geopolitical debate.
- pytester 7y ago
  >Are you serious? There was an article on HN just yesterday about how Turkey censored Wikipedia for two years. And yet it would maximize those who would be able to attend. Both Israelis and Arabs can fly to Turkey pretty easily. >I think a lot of Israeli engineers would just like to be able to host conferences without it turning into a geopolitical debate I'm sure a lot of North Korean and Venezuelan engineers would love that too, but until the Israeli government ends racial apartheid the chances of it not turning into a geopolitical debate are zero.
  - azinman2 7y ago
    I don’t want to get inti a huge debate here, but you’ve repeatedly talked about apartheid which is a highly inappropriate metaphor that often gets tossed around as if it’s somehow factual. There are Arab citizens of Israel, and they don’t have codified laws that require them to live separately from Jews, nor do you find signs that say “beware of Arabs” and other such hallmarks of apartheid. It’s a disservice to both the history of South Africa and Israel to use this term. There are few places that don’t have geopolitical concerns for _someone_. I don’t think the community would be up in arms for a conference in the US, but plenty cannot come to the US (and it’s hardly not geopolitically controversial). I don’t think you’ll find many Armenian or Kurdish developers who want or could come to Turkey, for example. If you host in Palestinian territory, you won’t find many Israelis, Jews, gays, or other persecuted minorities able to attend that either. I ask you to recognize that these things are complicated and multi-faceted, with a wide variety of “valid” viewpoints depending on who you are, and not worthy of such reductionism.
    - Udik 7y ago
      > but you’ve repeatedly talked about apartheid which is a highly inappropriate metaphor The apartheid accusation doesn't have much to do with Arab Israelis; the fact is that Israel exercises complete civil and military control over vast portions of the West Bank; in these areas, you can be Jewish- in which case you're an Israeli citizen, subject to civil law and able to vote for the government that effectively controls the area; or, if you're Palestinian, you're subject to the military law and vote for a government that is powerless on the territory. This is an apartheid situation, but Israel can deny it because it happens outside of its legal borders, where Israel enjoys every privilege of sovereignty without any of the duties.
    - pytester 7y ago
      > you’ve repeatedly talked about apartheid which is a highly inappropriate There's a wall with guard towers. I've been there and seen it myself. The existence of some 2nd class Arab citizens that they couldn't ethnically cleanse or expel any other way while the world was watching doesn't change that fact. >I ask you to recognize that these things are complicated It was never complicated. Israel was a racist European colonization project just like South Africa. The fact that it screams anti-semitism until it's blue in the face and asks you do to the same does not change that fact.
    - pinkfoot 7y ago
      There are codified laws that specificities ally exempt Arab Israelis from. National service.
- Udik 7y ago
  I can understand it, but how can you expect to keep living normally as if nothing was happening, when your army's snipers are shooting live bullets on protesters and 10% of your population lives on illegally occupied territories? This is not "a geopolitical debate", this is a fundamental human rights issue.
- e12e 7y ago
  It made sense to boycott South Africa during apartheid, and it makes sense to boycott Israel today.
fortran77 7y ago
I'm sure you avoid going to conferences in the UK because they occupy a piece of Ireland, don't you?

DoofusOfDeath 7y ago

I don't have any inside knowledge on this. But I would think choosing any particular country could be interpreted as posturing by some group.

tompccs 7y ago

Are you serious? There was an article on HN just yesterday about how Turkey censored Wikipedia for two years. I think a lot of Israeli engineers would just like to be able to host conferences without it turning into a geopolitical debate.

pytester 7y ago
>Are you serious? There was an article on HN just yesterday about how Turkey censored Wikipedia for two years. And yet it would maximize those who would be able to attend. Both Israelis and Arabs can fly to Turkey pretty easily. >I think a lot of Israeli engineers would just like to be able to host conferences without it turning into a geopolitical debate I'm sure a lot of North Korean and Venezuelan engineers would love that too, but until the Israeli government ends racial apartheid the chances of it not turning into a geopolitical debate are zero.
- azinman2 7y ago
  I don’t want to get inti a huge debate here, but you’ve repeatedly talked about apartheid which is a highly inappropriate metaphor that often gets tossed around as if it’s somehow factual. There are Arab citizens of Israel, and they don’t have codified laws that require them to live separately from Jews, nor do you find signs that say “beware of Arabs” and other such hallmarks of apartheid. It’s a disservice to both the history of South Africa and Israel to use this term. There are few places that don’t have geopolitical concerns for _someone_. I don’t think the community would be up in arms for a conference in the US, but plenty cannot come to the US (and it’s hardly not geopolitically controversial). I don’t think you’ll find many Armenian or Kurdish developers who want or could come to Turkey, for example. If you host in Palestinian territory, you won’t find many Israelis, Jews, gays, or other persecuted minorities able to attend that either. I ask you to recognize that these things are complicated and multi-faceted, with a wide variety of “valid” viewpoints depending on who you are, and not worthy of such reductionism.
  - Udik 7y ago
    > but you’ve repeatedly talked about apartheid which is a highly inappropriate metaphor The apartheid accusation doesn't have much to do with Arab Israelis; the fact is that Israel exercises complete civil and military control over vast portions of the West Bank; in these areas, you can be Jewish- in which case you're an Israeli citizen, subject to civil law and able to vote for the government that effectively controls the area; or, if you're Palestinian, you're subject to the military law and vote for a government that is powerless on the territory. This is an apartheid situation, but Israel can deny it because it happens outside of its legal borders, where Israel enjoys every privilege of sovereignty without any of the duties.
  - pytester 7y ago
    > you’ve repeatedly talked about apartheid which is a highly inappropriate There's a wall with guard towers. I've been there and seen it myself. The existence of some 2nd class Arab citizens that they couldn't ethnically cleanse or expel any other way while the world was watching doesn't change that fact. >I ask you to recognize that these things are complicated It was never complicated. Israel was a racist European colonization project just like South Africa. The fact that it screams anti-semitism until it's blue in the face and asks you do to the same does not change that fact.
  - pinkfoot 7y ago
    There are codified laws that specificities ally exempt Arab Israelis from. National service.
Udik 7y ago
I can understand it, but how can you expect to keep living normally as if nothing was happening, when your army's snipers are shooting live bullets on protesters and 10% of your population lives on illegally occupied territories? This is not "a geopolitical debate", this is a fundamental human rights issue.
e12e 7y ago
It made sense to boycott South Africa during apartheid, and it makes sense to boycott Israel today.

fortran77 7y ago

I'm sure you avoid going to conferences in the UK because they occupy a piece of Ireland, don't you?