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In the past, you needed to put effort to fake things. Of course, people still exist that believe the moonlanding videos were faked, but their hypothesis hinges

In the past, you needed to put effort to fake things. Of course, people still exist that believe the moonlanding videos were faked, but their hypothesis hinges on the government spending extraordinary amounts of money to produce the fake. Deepfakes are deeply troubling, because anyone with a computer (a requirement that's getting optional as well quite fast) can fake any video almost instantly. Consider just one sinister motive that's already making women in many countries cower in fear: if you reject a dude he can just make a deepfake porn video with you and release it as revenge. What's the equivalent of this in the distant past? All a guy could have done is "allege" the woman is so-and-so, which to be sure, probably did ruin some women's lives, but it's almost as if our society has devolved back to that same Stone age at best then. And we live in a time when "facts" already don't matter much anymore and people are just looking to find evidence that supports their claim alone rather than the truth. To not take this technology seriously, to brush it off because "sensible" people will still pursue to seek the truth, is the kind of smug arrogance about questionable tech that has led us to the current overall shit:sandwich state of affairs to begin with. Let's hope we learn some lessons at least.

keiferski 7y ago
What the original commenter is saying, and what I will agree will happen, is that the behavior of automatically trusting video as evidence will go away. I think this is actually a good thing if it encourages people to dig deeper into the sources of information. > If you reject a dude he can just make a deepfake porn video with you and release it as revenge. This will be troubling at first, but again in the long run it will likely just lead to people not taking these sort of videos seriously and interpreting them as a joke / weird stuff on the Internet. This already essentially happens with Photoshop and celebrities. > And we live in a time when "facts" already don't matter much anymore and people are just looking to find evidence that supports their claim alone rather than the truth This is how human beings have been since the beginning of time. There is no "Golden Age of Rationality" that we are exiting.
- BiteCode_dev 7y ago
  > What the original commenter is saying, and what I will agree will happen, is that the behavior of automatically trusting video as evidence will go away. This is doubtful. People still believe in pictures despite it's so easy to forge. People believe obvious oral lies. Hell, people believe tweets. The video medium is incredibly powerful, and the damage it can do is huge. We are going to suffer for this, and most people won't even understand why.
  - novaRom 7y ago
    I am observing increasing number of people is now seriously believe in "Moon Hoax". Definitely more than back in 70-80th. Why is that? Generation of YouTube? Deliberate propaganda?
    - Krasnol 7y ago
      Don't forget the Flat Earth movement. I don't think anything about that is "deliberate propaganda". It's just nutjobs gathering and gatherings of nutjobs creating more nutjobs. It's much easier these days with "social" media.
      - WilTimSon 7y ago
        Well, it's also the fact that people have learned how to monetize this stuff effectively. I mean, even the first fakes were monetized (stuff like shocking photos of fairies would be sold, the people who took them would travel the country and speak about their 'amazing discoveries) but, nowadays, you can just write a book about the Earth being flat because all you need to make money off of it is a few contrarian people or conspiracy theorists. Even Alex Jones, a figure so obviously deranged with claims that sound like satire, has been selling supplements and merch. All because these days anybody has a platform and monetizing lies is easier than ever. People will believe anything, especially if it's 'published in a scientific magazine', nevermind that the publication has no credibility, reliable sources, or academic integrity. This is how anti-vaxxers got their start, after all.
      - 7y ago
mbel 7y ago
With deep fakes easily available I believe the pornographic video material ultimately will have the same weight as a rumor, it's somewhat true for photos today. We definitely need a common way to propagate trusted information, but keeping videos as absolutely trustworthy is not possible anymore.
- washadjeffmad 7y ago
  Right, and I'd say the sooner this is demonstrated to the public at large (perhaps not with pornography), the better. Next is legislation that outlines the rights on individuals and provides a process for reporting and removal of content, a la DMCA. We have existing laws for non-consensual pornography, but it might be interesting to allow the option to treat them like copyrighted content. If a video is profitable, pornographic or not, why not allow people to collect on that? The next catch-up phase is to release client-side tools to allow people to seamlessly render template content on their home equipment, circumventing any public distribution / "make available" clauses. I also think long term this'll be a boon for sex worker acceptance and reintroduce some skepticism into the public evaluation of media. My grandfather was a retired military officer, and late in his life they shot a battle scene for a movie down the street from where he lived. He saw the set and effects in action and was deeply affected by it, saying it was indistinguishable from reality to him, and if that was the level of control they had over video these days, how could he ever trust anything he saw on the news again? Interesting times.
amelius 7y ago
> if you reject a dude he can just make a deepfake porn video with you and release it as revenge But the woman in this example could take the same video and put the faces of a thousand other people on the person in the video.
overthemoon 7y ago
I challenge anyone worried about how facts don't matter to people anymore due to the tech bubble/fake news/propaganda campaigns to prove they ever really did.
belorn 7y ago
> "What's the equivalent of this in the distant past?" There are so many versions depending what time and what place. If its an elder in ancient times then what they say is the truth. If its in a caste society then the truth is determined by your blood. In chivalry, truth is based on reputation. 19th century truth is written in a book. 20th century it was written in the paper. World war 2 is a period where truth was what was said by leaders, both political and scientists. Post world war 2 until 21th century and truth was anything said on the TV (in many places a single channel). With the exception of the caste system, I would say that there is a need for a healthy balance between trust and distrust. It also seems that balance generally will occur after a while, but not before a lot of damage happens. Deep fake in that sense is not ushering in a new dark age, but it will likely take a bit of time before people find a balance in how to perceive video evidence.
pvinis 7y ago
> because anyone with a computer How is that different from anything else nowadays? That's what computers do for us. Making calculations, decrypting text, generating art, developing a software. All of these used to be harder and more manual and time-consuming. Now, anyone with a computer or a phone and an app can do these things way easier, and I'm sure there are better examples I failed to think of. It only makes sense that even the "bad" uses of a computer will be benefitted by computer progress.
sharot4 7y ago
>Of course, people still exist that believe the moonlanding videos were faked, but their hypothesis hinges on the government spending extraordinary amounts of money to produce the fake. Are you truly suggesting here that the government would never make a fake video about a moon landing because it would cost too much to make this video?? So instead they sent humans to the moon and brought them back safely to earth because that's all their budget would allow?

keiferski 7y ago

What the original commenter is saying, and what I will agree will happen, is that the behavior of automatically trusting video as evidence will go away. I think this is actually a good thing if it encourages people to dig deeper into the sources of information. > If you reject a dude he can just make a deepfake porn video with you and release it as revenge. This will be troubling at first, but again in the long run it will likely just lead to people not taking these sort of videos seriously and interpreting them as a joke / weird stuff on the Internet. This already essentially happens with Photoshop and celebrities. > And we live in a time when "facts" already don't matter much anymore and people are just looking to find evidence that supports their claim alone rather than the truth This is how human beings have been since the beginning of time. There is no "Golden Age of Rationality" that we are exiting.

BiteCode_dev 7y ago
> What the original commenter is saying, and what I will agree will happen, is that the behavior of automatically trusting video as evidence will go away. This is doubtful. People still believe in pictures despite it's so easy to forge. People believe obvious oral lies. Hell, people believe tweets. The video medium is incredibly powerful, and the damage it can do is huge. We are going to suffer for this, and most people won't even understand why.
- novaRom 7y ago
  I am observing increasing number of people is now seriously believe in "Moon Hoax". Definitely more than back in 70-80th. Why is that? Generation of YouTube? Deliberate propaganda?
  - Krasnol 7y ago
    Don't forget the Flat Earth movement. I don't think anything about that is "deliberate propaganda". It's just nutjobs gathering and gatherings of nutjobs creating more nutjobs. It's much easier these days with "social" media.
    - WilTimSon 7y ago
      Well, it's also the fact that people have learned how to monetize this stuff effectively. I mean, even the first fakes were monetized (stuff like shocking photos of fairies would be sold, the people who took them would travel the country and speak about their 'amazing discoveries) but, nowadays, you can just write a book about the Earth being flat because all you need to make money off of it is a few contrarian people or conspiracy theorists. Even Alex Jones, a figure so obviously deranged with claims that sound like satire, has been selling supplements and merch. All because these days anybody has a platform and monetizing lies is easier than ever. People will believe anything, especially if it's 'published in a scientific magazine', nevermind that the publication has no credibility, reliable sources, or academic integrity. This is how anti-vaxxers got their start, after all.
    - 7y ago

mbel 7y ago

With deep fakes easily available I believe the pornographic video material ultimately will have the same weight as a rumor, it's somewhat true for photos today. We definitely need a common way to propagate trusted information, but keeping videos as absolutely trustworthy is not possible anymore.

washadjeffmad 7y ago
Right, and I'd say the sooner this is demonstrated to the public at large (perhaps not with pornography), the better. Next is legislation that outlines the rights on individuals and provides a process for reporting and removal of content, a la DMCA. We have existing laws for non-consensual pornography, but it might be interesting to allow the option to treat them like copyrighted content. If a video is profitable, pornographic or not, why not allow people to collect on that? The next catch-up phase is to release client-side tools to allow people to seamlessly render template content on their home equipment, circumventing any public distribution / "make available" clauses. I also think long term this'll be a boon for sex worker acceptance and reintroduce some skepticism into the public evaluation of media. My grandfather was a retired military officer, and late in his life they shot a battle scene for a movie down the street from where he lived. He saw the set and effects in action and was deeply affected by it, saying it was indistinguishable from reality to him, and if that was the level of control they had over video these days, how could he ever trust anything he saw on the news again? Interesting times.

amelius 7y ago

> if you reject a dude he can just make a deepfake porn video with you and release it as revenge But the woman in this example could take the same video and put the faces of a thousand other people on the person in the video.

overthemoon 7y ago

I challenge anyone worried about how facts don't matter to people anymore due to the tech bubble/fake news/propaganda campaigns to prove they ever really did.

belorn 7y ago

> "What's the equivalent of this in the distant past?" There are so many versions depending what time and what place. If its an elder in ancient times then what they say is the truth. If its in a caste society then the truth is determined by your blood. In chivalry, truth is based on reputation. 19th century truth is written in a book. 20th century it was written in the paper. World war 2 is a period where truth was what was said by leaders, both political and scientists. Post world war 2 until 21th century and truth was anything said on the TV (in many places a single channel). With the exception of the caste system, I would say that there is a need for a healthy balance between trust and distrust. It also seems that balance generally will occur after a while, but not before a lot of damage happens. Deep fake in that sense is not ushering in a new dark age, but it will likely take a bit of time before people find a balance in how to perceive video evidence.

pvinis 7y ago

> because anyone with a computer How is that different from anything else nowadays? That's what computers do for us. Making calculations, decrypting text, generating art, developing a software. All of these used to be harder and more manual and time-consuming. Now, anyone with a computer or a phone and an app can do these things way easier, and I'm sure there are better examples I failed to think of. It only makes sense that even the "bad" uses of a computer will be benefitted by computer progress.

sharot4 7y ago

>Of course, people still exist that believe the moonlanding videos were faked, but their hypothesis hinges on the government spending extraordinary amounts of money to produce the fake. Are you truly suggesting here that the government would never make a fake video about a moon landing because it would cost too much to make this video?? So instead they sent humans to the moon and brought them back safely to earth because that's all their budget would allow?