6 ms·

I'm not a fan of documentaries, but once this is all over I would definitely watch one on this. She was so young when she started the company, it's hard to beli

by foota 7y ago

I'm not a fan of documentaries, but once this is all over I would definitely watch one on this. She was so young when she started the company, it's hard to believe she intended to defraud people from the start. I can't excuse any harm she caused, but I imagine she just got in over her head and couldn't let it go. Edit: read some more about the people involved, sounds like it was worse than I thought. Sad :(

petulla 7y ago
https://www.hbo.com/documentaries/the-inventor-out-for-blood-in-silicon-valley https://www.hbo.com/documentaries/the-inventor-out-for-blood... ?
- foota 7y ago
  I was thinking something after the fact would have the most information, since the trials should air everything out.
- baby 7y ago
  I watched it and it was meh... a lot of information is lacking.
  - taytus 7y ago
    Yes, for people like you and me and fellow HNers. 99% of the world has no clue who Holmes is and that is a good thing.
pb7 7y ago
I would highly recommend reading the book Bad Blood, which is written by the WSJ journalist who uncovered the fraud. It is very good.
- huy-nguyen 7y ago
  I thought the author worked for the Journal?
  - pb7 7y ago
    Sorry, you’re right, fixed.
- intopieces 7y ago
  Very good, and also hilarious in parts. I gained a lot of respect for the WSJ's editorial department; Carreyrou was investigating fraud at the same time the WSJ was writing glowing pieces about Elizabeth Holmes as a founder.
  - Waterluvian 7y ago
    Real deep investigative journalism is a beautiful thing when you see it in action. We need to treasure it and fund it. Makes me think it needs to be separate from mainstream media in some way.
    - Terretta 7y ago
      It's a shame the words "real", "deep", and "investigative" are needed. Used to just be "journalism".
      - Waterluvian 7y ago
        Precisely why my brain immediately went to, "we need to get this far away from today's media industry..." after feeling the necessity of writing that
      - lazyasciiart 7y ago
        No, it never did. Journalism has always included simply gathering and publishing fairly superficial news. It doesn't take any investigation to let people know about decisions made at a recent school board meeting, or that the local fair is coming up and Little Tommy will enter his pig in the 'best pet' competition, and it only takes a small amount of investigation to learn that the school board decision was heavily driven by the supervisor's experience in his previous district - but that doesn't make it unimportant, and the reliable recording of basic local facts is incredibly important to those 'deep investigative' journalists.
      - blaser-waffle 7y ago
        > Used to just be "journalism" Bollocks. Look up the phrase "yellow journalism" and "muckraker". If anything there was more of an incentive to lie like a mofo because, outside of word-of-mouth, the only source of news was a newspaper. Nowadays you're saturated with data, but you can turn it off, or dig for something that represents an alternative viewpoint. But in 1910 your only source of "truth" was what William Randolph Hearst said it was. See also: the Spanish-American War, Fatty Arbuckle's trial, and "Rosebud"
- goatinaboat 7y ago
  If you enjoyed that you will also enjoy Catch & Kill by Ronan Farrow.
hogFeast 7y ago
Out for Blood already exists and covers 95% of the story (I think HBO has a TV show in the pipeline too).
- baby 7y ago
  It was not a great documentary in my book. I'm waiting for a more thorough investigation work.
  - hogFeast 7y ago
    Everything that will be found out is out there.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
sdinsn 7y ago
> She was so young when she started the company, it's hard to believe she intended to defraud people from the start. Why do you think that young people are immune from doing bad things? From all accounts, it seems she was a a sociopath.
- Jamwinner 7y ago
  This is the stomping grounds of young, 'soon to be rich' idealouges. The current world is dripping with what people who frequent this site have done wrong today. Sociopath is incorrect. We just no longer care about our peers, because it is fashionable, and Profitable.
- tjpnz 7y ago
  Not sure why people are down voting you - based on what's out there she very likely is.
  - SamReidHughes 7y ago
    The point is logically disconnected from the question of whether the business plan at age 19 was to sell fake blood tests.
- DoreenMichele 7y ago
  Even if someone genuinely is a sociopath, there is an argument to be made that if you are young enough, some portion of that is the fault of your parents. The older you get, the less sympathy people typically have for blaming your parents/childhood for stuff. But a lot of people are inclined to cut young people some slack based on the idea that something went wrong in their upbringing and they didn't really know better.
- foota 7y ago
  Mostly? I'm naive :) I'm young, and it's probably harder for me to picture someone like me doing this kind of thing as opposed to older generations.
2fast4you 7y ago
If you’re a fan of podcast documentaries, I would check out “The Dropout”. It’s really good, and how I first found out about Theranos
bitxbit 7y ago
I believe they’re making a movie with Jennifer Lawrence playing Holmes.
- FreeKill 7y ago
  Yeah, I believe it's supposed to be directed by Adam McKay (The Big Short, Vice, Anchorman, etc.) and the original author of the book is writing the script as well. Could be quite good if done right. I would assume they are waiting for these court cases to have their day, before filming the movie...
  - justinator 7y ago
    Welp, there's some more money to be made for Holmes, I would assume from selling her story?
    - jhbadger 7y ago
      I doubt it. The story is already known through books like Carreyrou's "Bad Blood". If anyone will get paid for the story it would be someone like Carreyrou.
  - lainga 7y ago
    I thought McKay's direction on Vice was pretty derivative off of what he had done on Big Short. I hope he takes the Theranos story in a different direction besides framing voiceover, irreverent cutaways to celebrities/pop culture references, and reduction of overall narratives to a good-vs-stupid power struggle.
tootie 7y ago
The HBO definitely had a strong point of view but it's hard to watch her and not think she's a serious sociopath with no regard for truth or the consequences of her actions.

by foota 7y ago

petulla 7y ago

https://www.hbo.com/documentaries/the-inventor-out-for-blood-in-silicon-valley https://www.hbo.com/documentaries/the-inventor-out-for-blood... ?

foota 7y ago
I was thinking something after the fact would have the most information, since the trials should air everything out.
baby 7y ago
I watched it and it was meh... a lot of information is lacking.
- taytus 7y ago
  Yes, for people like you and me and fellow HNers. 99% of the world has no clue who Holmes is and that is a good thing.

pb7 7y ago

I would highly recommend reading the book Bad Blood, which is written by the WSJ journalist who uncovered the fraud. It is very good.

huy-nguyen 7y ago
I thought the author worked for the Journal?
- pb7 7y ago
  Sorry, you’re right, fixed.
intopieces 7y ago
Very good, and also hilarious in parts. I gained a lot of respect for the WSJ's editorial department; Carreyrou was investigating fraud at the same time the WSJ was writing glowing pieces about Elizabeth Holmes as a founder.
- Waterluvian 7y ago
  Real deep investigative journalism is a beautiful thing when you see it in action. We need to treasure it and fund it. Makes me think it needs to be separate from mainstream media in some way.
  - Terretta 7y ago
    It's a shame the words "real", "deep", and "investigative" are needed. Used to just be "journalism".
    - Waterluvian 7y ago
      Precisely why my brain immediately went to, "we need to get this far away from today's media industry..." after feeling the necessity of writing that
    - lazyasciiart 7y ago
      No, it never did. Journalism has always included simply gathering and publishing fairly superficial news. It doesn't take any investigation to let people know about decisions made at a recent school board meeting, or that the local fair is coming up and Little Tommy will enter his pig in the 'best pet' competition, and it only takes a small amount of investigation to learn that the school board decision was heavily driven by the supervisor's experience in his previous district - but that doesn't make it unimportant, and the reliable recording of basic local facts is incredibly important to those 'deep investigative' journalists.
    - blaser-waffle 7y ago
      > Used to just be "journalism" Bollocks. Look up the phrase "yellow journalism" and "muckraker". If anything there was more of an incentive to lie like a mofo because, outside of word-of-mouth, the only source of news was a newspaper. Nowadays you're saturated with data, but you can turn it off, or dig for something that represents an alternative viewpoint. But in 1910 your only source of "truth" was what William Randolph Hearst said it was. See also: the Spanish-American War, Fatty Arbuckle's trial, and "Rosebud"
goatinaboat 7y ago
If you enjoyed that you will also enjoy Catch & Kill by Ronan Farrow.

hogFeast 7y ago

Out for Blood already exists and covers 95% of the story (I think HBO has a TV show in the pipeline too).

baby 7y ago
It was not a great documentary in my book. I'm waiting for a more thorough investigation work.
- hogFeast 7y ago
  Everything that will be found out is out there.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

sdinsn 7y ago

> She was so young when she started the company, it's hard to believe she intended to defraud people from the start. Why do you think that young people are immune from doing bad things? From all accounts, it seems she was a a sociopath.

Jamwinner 7y ago
This is the stomping grounds of young, 'soon to be rich' idealouges. The current world is dripping with what people who frequent this site have done wrong today. Sociopath is incorrect. We just no longer care about our peers, because it is fashionable, and Profitable.
tjpnz 7y ago
Not sure why people are down voting you - based on what's out there she very likely is.
- SamReidHughes 7y ago
  The point is logically disconnected from the question of whether the business plan at age 19 was to sell fake blood tests.
DoreenMichele 7y ago
Even if someone genuinely is a sociopath, there is an argument to be made that if you are young enough, some portion of that is the fault of your parents. The older you get, the less sympathy people typically have for blaming your parents/childhood for stuff. But a lot of people are inclined to cut young people some slack based on the idea that something went wrong in their upbringing and they didn't really know better.
foota 7y ago
Mostly? I'm naive :) I'm young, and it's probably harder for me to picture someone like me doing this kind of thing as opposed to older generations.

2fast4you 7y ago

If you’re a fan of podcast documentaries, I would check out “The Dropout”. It’s really good, and how I first found out about Theranos

bitxbit 7y ago

I believe they’re making a movie with Jennifer Lawrence playing Holmes.

FreeKill 7y ago
Yeah, I believe it's supposed to be directed by Adam McKay (The Big Short, Vice, Anchorman, etc.) and the original author of the book is writing the script as well. Could be quite good if done right. I would assume they are waiting for these court cases to have their day, before filming the movie...
- justinator 7y ago
  Welp, there's some more money to be made for Holmes, I would assume from selling her story?
  - jhbadger 7y ago
    I doubt it. The story is already known through books like Carreyrou's "Bad Blood". If anyone will get paid for the story it would be someone like Carreyrou.
- lainga 7y ago
  I thought McKay's direction on Vice was pretty derivative off of what he had done on Big Short. I hope he takes the Theranos story in a different direction besides framing voiceover, irreverent cutaways to celebrities/pop culture references, and reduction of overall narratives to a good-vs-stupid power struggle.

tootie 7y ago

The HBO definitely had a strong point of view but it's hard to watch her and not think she's a serious sociopath with no regard for truth or the consequences of her actions.