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'Amazon' is an _English_ translation of a _Greek_ name given to an _Eurasian_ tribe. What claim do _South American_ nations have for it? I loathe to defend Ama

'Amazon' is an _English_ translation of a _Greek_ name given to an _Eurasian_ tribe. What claim do _South American_ nations have for it? I loathe to defend Amazon and ICANN of all the fucking things, but come on now. There are plenty of reasons to shit on these two, but not this nonsense. 'Illegal', lmao.

onion2k 7y ago
The etymology of a word is a silly reason to deny assigning ownership of a TLD. How the word originated is far less important than how it's used. The case Brazil et al are making is that the global common understanding of "Amazon" is more theirs than Bezos'. In this case though it seems like the most common use for a .amazon domain would be to scam Amazon customers. Tourism could easily go under a .com. That'd be a good reason to assign it to Amazon. It'd be in the interests of people regardless of the company.
- fastball 7y ago
  Even given your second point, I would argue with the first, given that I think that globally, the company is more thought of when someone sees the word "Amazon" in 2020 than the rainforest.
  - celeritascelery 7y ago
    That’s exactly the situation the South American countries what to fight against.
    - fastball 7y ago
      So it's not AMZN that wants to own the word, it's South American countries that want to do so, even though they have no more right to it than the company.
      - anoncake 7y ago
        Of course they do simply by virtue of being sovereign countries rather than some corporation.
      - onion2k 7y ago
        They had the word first. That is a compelling argument. Imagine I start a company today called "America" (I'm in the UK). My business is wildly successful and grows to the point of being a global unicorn that can afford gTLDs. Should ICANN allow me to own .america? A lot of people would argue I shouldn't..
        fastball 7y ago
        They did not have the word first. Amazon was first used to describe warrior-women from Scythia.
  - neiman 7y ago
    "the amazon": thought of the rainforest/river (only) "amazon": thought of as either the rainforest/river or the company. I really dunno what does the world population think of that though (no one knows really).
    - vhvjkyhkogvv 7y ago
      > the amazon I think of tall female warriors
      - anoncake 7y ago
        If tall female legendary Greek warriors show up and make a claim to the .amazon TLD, we should consider their claim. So far they haven't.
        perl4ever 7y ago
        The river was named due to a European associating it with the mythical warriors.
        anoncake 7y ago
        Go on?
        perl4ever 7y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francisco_de_Orellana https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francisco_de_Orellana "The name 'Amazon' is said to arise from a battle Francisco de Orellana fought with a tribe of Tapuyas. The women of the tribe fought alongside the men, as was the custom among the tribe. Orellana derived the name Amazonas from the mythical Amazons of Asia described by Herodotus (see The Histories [4.110-116]) and Diodorus in Greek legends"
        anoncake 7y ago
        I was (vaguely) aware of that but what difference does it make here?
  - peterwwillis 7y ago
    That's not even the important point. Ownership of a domain name doesn't have to do with who is more of the owner of the name, nor whether the name is "etymologically pure", or whose use of the name is more popular. The entire right to own a domain (or TLD) is based solely upon ICANN's Uniform Dispute Resolution Process, and any established case law which exists in your particular jurisdiction. So this thing that the majority of the world's communication and commerce is dependent upon is adjudicated by a private entity in a single country that makes its own rules.
  - perl4ever 7y ago
    Is it wrong to think of the mythical warriors? Also, maybe someone should make a modest proposal to Bezos to rename the company "Orellana".
cambalache 7y ago
Well given the fact that Guyana is an English speaking country and a member of ACTO, it has as much right as US has over a hypothetical New York or California domain. Or it does not count because it is "South-American" and not proper English to you?
- zamadatix 7y ago
  I think the choice of New York/California really muddies up this comparison. Maybe a Guyanese company named Rocky Mountain getting ".rockymountain" would be more apt. Otherwise you start to bring in comparison to geographic boundaries over many countries vs political boundaries which have historically been reserved in DNS as well as protection of existing domains when registering a new one which (I don't believe) is the case here as well as government vs other domains and possibly more "as well"s I'm not thinking of.
  - cambalache 7y ago
    Why does it muddies it up?
    - zamadatix 7y ago
      For the reasons I listed in my comment.
- perl4ever 7y ago
  Baja California is in what country? Also, most of the outrage I'm aware of over the commercial use of California by non-Americans is because some people name things "California" and then don't sell them in the US. https://www.adventure-journal.com/2019/08/its-absurd-the-new-vw-california-camper-van-isnt-sold-in-the-us-heres-why/ https://www.adventure-journal.com/2019/08/its-absurd-the-new...
cortesoft 7y ago
I don't understand this argument at all. Do none of the Americas have any right to have trademarks on words, since none of the languages spoken here are native to the Americas? Can we not trademark English words, since we aren't English?
- aguyfromnb 7y ago
  The point is "Amazon" is just a word used by South Americans to name things in their culture, in the same way that Bezos names his company "Amazon". The fact that they sold the TLD to the the company is a little sketchy, but the idea that South America has an inherent trademark on anything "Amazon" is ridiculous.
  - cambalache 7y ago
    So it should be a common name, like "water" or "air" and that domain should not be on private hands. But if I had to choose between a beautiful river and its surrounding rainforest and a company which forces some of its contractors to pee in bottles I know who I will choose.
    - FDSGSG 7y ago
      > common name, like "water" or "air" and that domain should not be on private hands This seems like an entirely separate argument. Domains like .earth and .country are privately owned, nobody cares. http://data.iana.org/TLD/tlds-alpha-by-domain.txt http://data.iana.org/TLD/tlds-alpha-by-domain.txt
catalogia 7y ago
The company is named after the river, not the Eurasian tribe.
pera 7y ago
English is the de facto lingua franca on the internet. English is also the official language of both Guyana and the Falklands. I think that would give these nations a case for a claim.
- cambalache 7y ago
  Guyana yes, Malvinas not. First, they are not a nation, they are a (disputed) British overseas territory (by own choice) and second, they are nowhere close to the Amazon.

onion2k 7y ago

The etymology of a word is a silly reason to deny assigning ownership of a TLD. How the word originated is far less important than how it's used. The case Brazil et al are making is that the global common understanding of "Amazon" is more theirs than Bezos'. In this case though it seems like the most common use for a .amazon domain would be to scam Amazon customers. Tourism could easily go under a .com. That'd be a good reason to assign it to Amazon. It'd be in the interests of people regardless of the company.

fastball 7y ago
Even given your second point, I would argue with the first, given that I think that globally, the company is more thought of when someone sees the word "Amazon" in 2020 than the rainforest.
- celeritascelery 7y ago
  That’s exactly the situation the South American countries what to fight against.
  - fastball 7y ago
    So it's not AMZN that wants to own the word, it's South American countries that want to do so, even though they have no more right to it than the company.
    - anoncake 7y ago
      Of course they do simply by virtue of being sovereign countries rather than some corporation.
    - onion2k 7y ago
      They had the word first. That is a compelling argument. Imagine I start a company today called "America" (I'm in the UK). My business is wildly successful and grows to the point of being a global unicorn that can afford gTLDs. Should ICANN allow me to own .america? A lot of people would argue I shouldn't..
      - fastball 7y ago
        They did not have the word first. Amazon was first used to describe warrior-women from Scythia.
- neiman 7y ago
  "the amazon": thought of the rainforest/river (only) "amazon": thought of as either the rainforest/river or the company. I really dunno what does the world population think of that though (no one knows really).
  - vhvjkyhkogvv 7y ago
    > the amazon I think of tall female warriors
    - anoncake 7y ago
      If tall female legendary Greek warriors show up and make a claim to the .amazon TLD, we should consider their claim. So far they haven't.
      - perl4ever 7y ago
        The river was named due to a European associating it with the mythical warriors.
        anoncake 7y ago
        Go on?
        perl4ever 7y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francisco_de_Orellana https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francisco_de_Orellana "The name 'Amazon' is said to arise from a battle Francisco de Orellana fought with a tribe of Tapuyas. The women of the tribe fought alongside the men, as was the custom among the tribe. Orellana derived the name Amazonas from the mythical Amazons of Asia described by Herodotus (see The Histories [4.110-116]) and Diodorus in Greek legends"
        anoncake 7y ago
        I was (vaguely) aware of that but what difference does it make here?
- peterwwillis 7y ago
  That's not even the important point. Ownership of a domain name doesn't have to do with who is more of the owner of the name, nor whether the name is "etymologically pure", or whose use of the name is more popular. The entire right to own a domain (or TLD) is based solely upon ICANN's Uniform Dispute Resolution Process, and any established case law which exists in your particular jurisdiction. So this thing that the majority of the world's communication and commerce is dependent upon is adjudicated by a private entity in a single country that makes its own rules.
- perl4ever 7y ago
  Is it wrong to think of the mythical warriors? Also, maybe someone should make a modest proposal to Bezos to rename the company "Orellana".

cambalache 7y ago

Well given the fact that Guyana is an English speaking country and a member of ACTO, it has as much right as US has over a hypothetical New York or California domain. Or it does not count because it is "South-American" and not proper English to you?

zamadatix 7y ago
I think the choice of New York/California really muddies up this comparison. Maybe a Guyanese company named Rocky Mountain getting ".rockymountain" would be more apt. Otherwise you start to bring in comparison to geographic boundaries over many countries vs political boundaries which have historically been reserved in DNS as well as protection of existing domains when registering a new one which (I don't believe) is the case here as well as government vs other domains and possibly more "as well"s I'm not thinking of.
- cambalache 7y ago
  Why does it muddies it up?
  - zamadatix 7y ago
    For the reasons I listed in my comment.
perl4ever 7y ago
Baja California is in what country? Also, most of the outrage I'm aware of over the commercial use of California by non-Americans is because some people name things "California" and then don't sell them in the US. https://www.adventure-journal.com/2019/08/its-absurd-the-new-vw-california-camper-van-isnt-sold-in-the-us-heres-why/ https://www.adventure-journal.com/2019/08/its-absurd-the-new...

cortesoft 7y ago

I don't understand this argument at all. Do none of the Americas have any right to have trademarks on words, since none of the languages spoken here are native to the Americas? Can we not trademark English words, since we aren't English?

aguyfromnb 7y ago
The point is "Amazon" is just a word used by South Americans to name things in their culture, in the same way that Bezos names his company "Amazon". The fact that they sold the TLD to the the company is a little sketchy, but the idea that South America has an inherent trademark on anything "Amazon" is ridiculous.
- cambalache 7y ago
  So it should be a common name, like "water" or "air" and that domain should not be on private hands. But if I had to choose between a beautiful river and its surrounding rainforest and a company which forces some of its contractors to pee in bottles I know who I will choose.
  - FDSGSG 7y ago
    > common name, like "water" or "air" and that domain should not be on private hands This seems like an entirely separate argument. Domains like .earth and .country are privately owned, nobody cares. http://data.iana.org/TLD/tlds-alpha-by-domain.txt http://data.iana.org/TLD/tlds-alpha-by-domain.txt

catalogia 7y ago

The company is named after the river, not the Eurasian tribe.

pera 7y ago

English is the de facto lingua franca on the internet. English is also the official language of both Guyana and the Falklands. I think that would give these nations a case for a claim.

cambalache 7y ago
Guyana yes, Malvinas not. First, they are not a nation, they are a (disputed) British overseas territory (by own choice) and second, they are nowhere close to the Amazon.