8 ms·

How to Read Self-Help

103 points by tomjcleveland 7y ago

attemptone 7y ago
If we're talking about books that contain a lot of wisdom,Imight suggest reading 'letters to a young poet' by Rainer Maria Rilke. It left a lasting impression and I get back to it from time to time. Anyone that wants to get a teaser can watch: https://youtu.be/F5tZ8X-EnAg https://youtu.be/F5tZ8X-EnAg
Invictus0 7y ago
Self help that you read and learn is just knowledge; self help that you live and breathe is understanding. Moving from knowledge to understanding is difficult: you can tell a kid that the stove is hot but they just don't get it until they're burnt. I think sometimes the problem with reading self help is it prescribes too many changes and people become overwhelmed. Learning to understand incredibly simple, trite things like self-acceptance can take a really long time. Simply knowing that you should accept yourself is not enough--ask any depressed person. There is a lot more work to be done before you can fully understand that notion.
vincentmarle 7y ago
The best “self-help” books I’ve read are the ones that are able to formulate known insights that I already had, but put in much better words than I could have done myself.
brenschluss 7y ago
I’m a fan of some self-help books. However, a major aspect that this article misses is that self-help is not a purely mental & cognitive activity. In my experience, the best books are pathways to action - they are like recipe cookbooks, where you actually have to try out the thing in order to experience a change. Neurosurgeons don’t get their wisdom by reading - they practice, watch other people, assist, perform, and train. They learn by training. Self-help is the same. Evaluating self-help books by what we understood by reading it is like trying to feel full and satiated by reading a cookbook of recipes. The cookbook and self-help book is there to be acted on.
jordanpg 7y ago
My main objection to these types of books is how overly verbose they tend to be. With a few exceptions, this category of book is built around a nucleus of few possibly valuable pearls of wisdom, and then 300 pages of filler is added. Usually lots of anecdotes ("Let me tell you about my friend Alice..."), checklists, and needless exposition. If this really is wisdom, it does not follow that it takes 300 pages to communicate. But I suppose the propounders have to make a living somehow. To be honest, I don't object to buying the book if it's really got some good wisdom, but I would be more likely to if they shipped with some sort of executive summary.
- SpicyLemonZest 7y ago
  Most self-help books do ship with an executive summary, conventionally written on the inner cover and in online descriptions. "This book contains a great self-help tactic but I won't tell you what it is" doesn't exactly drive sales.
- kristianc 7y ago
  > If this really is wisdom, it does not follow that it takes 300 pages to communicate. But I suppose the propounders have to make a living somehow. The article makes the point that the wisdom really does take much longer to communicate - a nugget of wisdom like ‘accept yourself’ seems trite when taken alone, but the examples (presumably filling the other 300 pages) are what makes the advice actually sink in.
  - foreverhere 7y ago
    This is similar to secret societies of the 18th century. Using an initiation ceremony to convey simple ideas in alluring, romantic rituals.
  - afiori 7y ago
    More than that it is about how different we all are, the parent poster would like no anecdote, I would like some, you would like some different from mines. 300 pages of filler could very well be the same message told 15 different times in 15 different format hoping that most people would gain that precious wisdom from at least one of them. I see this as a common fallacy of hyperrational people
kody 7y ago
I recommend the podcast "By The Book" if you're fascinated by/interested in the self-help book genre. The hosts select a self-help book, try to live it to the letter, and report their findings.
- nestorherre 7y ago
  Thanks for the heads up. Checking it out atm and it seems valuable.
munificent 7y ago
The article says that good self-help that leads to wisdom is obvious but hard to imply. The natural corollary of that is that you probably already have the necessary wisdom in your head (because it's obvious). And thus, if you're debating between spending two hours reading a self-help book and spending those two hours doing basically anything else, the latter is likely the better choice because there is at least some chance than in those two hours you will apply some wisdom or otherwise enrich your life. The reason self-help books are bad is not because they contain bad information. It's because reading them burns time that could otherwise be better spent.
- amurthy1 7y ago
  Just because something is obvious once shown to you doesn't mean it was immediately present in your mind beforehand, so being made aware of it can still be valuable. But agree that there's diminishing returns from these insights and focusing more on the specific details of your life is usually more impactful.
MadWombat 7y ago
So... now we have an article that helps you read the books that help you...
- BitwiseFool 7y ago
  It's just guides all the way down...
danvoell 7y ago
I think that's the first time I have seen the social validity person be someone I know. I always assume its boilerplate photos. Way to go Mehul!
BeetleB 7y ago
I recognized only one book from his initial list: Quiet by Susan Cain. It's a good book. It is not, nor does it claim to be, a self-help book. The same can be said of Gladwell's books. There's a bit of strawman stuff going on in the article.
paulpauper 7y ago
There is also Jordan Peterson, who blurs the lines between self-help and textbook-based knowledge
ravenstine 7y ago
Our culture and our algorithms value quantity. It's the same reason why so many YouTube videos are now mostly fluff. We assume a video greater than 20 minutes or a book that's over 100 pages is worth something. But a simple essay or booklet can be worth their weight in gold.
blueyes 7y ago
In my opinion, the medium is the problem. It's easy to read advice. It's hard to know how to apply general advice to a concrete situation. For that, you need to be in a live conversation with someone wise or knowledgeable.
pramit 7y ago
'Verbose..repetitive..filler content..5/10 pages useful content, rest is fluff...' these were the reasons I wanted to create a no-nonsense encyclopedia of self help, self improvement and career advice. Tiny Skills https://www.thesuccessmanual.in/tiny-skills.php https://www.thesuccessmanual.in/tiny-skills.php
znpy 7y ago
The thing I dislike the most about self-help/self-improvement books (example: Getting things done, by David Allen) is that they spend a lot of the book trying to convince you that their method work. What I'm saying is: I already bough a copy of the book, you don't have to convince me anymore. I already gave you my money. Just explain me the stuff.

103 points by tomjcleveland 7y ago

If we're talking about books that contain a lot of wisdom,Imight suggest reading 'letters to a young poet' by Rainer Maria Rilke. It left a lasting impression and I get back to it from time to time. Anyone that wants to get a teaser can watch: https://youtu.be/F5tZ8X-EnAg https://youtu.be/F5tZ8X-EnAg

Invictus0 7y ago

Self help that you read and learn is just knowledge; self help that you live and breathe is understanding. Moving from knowledge to understanding is difficult: you can tell a kid that the stove is hot but they just don't get it until they're burnt. I think sometimes the problem with reading self help is it prescribes too many changes and people become overwhelmed. Learning to understand incredibly simple, trite things like self-acceptance can take a really long time. Simply knowing that you should accept yourself is not enough--ask any depressed person. There is a lot more work to be done before you can fully understand that notion.

vincentmarle 7y ago

The best “self-help” books I’ve read are the ones that are able to formulate known insights that I already had, but put in much better words than I could have done myself.

brenschluss 7y ago

I’m a fan of some self-help books. However, a major aspect that this article misses is that self-help is not a purely mental & cognitive activity. In my experience, the best books are pathways to action - they are like recipe cookbooks, where you actually have to try out the thing in order to experience a change. Neurosurgeons don’t get their wisdom by reading - they practice, watch other people, assist, perform, and train. They learn by training. Self-help is the same. Evaluating self-help books by what we understood by reading it is like trying to feel full and satiated by reading a cookbook of recipes. The cookbook and self-help book is there to be acted on.

jordanpg 7y ago

My main objection to these types of books is how overly verbose they tend to be. With a few exceptions, this category of book is built around a nucleus of few possibly valuable pearls of wisdom, and then 300 pages of filler is added. Usually lots of anecdotes ("Let me tell you about my friend Alice..."), checklists, and needless exposition. If this really is wisdom, it does not follow that it takes 300 pages to communicate. But I suppose the propounders have to make a living somehow. To be honest, I don't object to buying the book if it's really got some good wisdom, but I would be more likely to if they shipped with some sort of executive summary.

SpicyLemonZest 7y ago
Most self-help books do ship with an executive summary, conventionally written on the inner cover and in online descriptions. "This book contains a great self-help tactic but I won't tell you what it is" doesn't exactly drive sales.
kristianc 7y ago
> If this really is wisdom, it does not follow that it takes 300 pages to communicate. But I suppose the propounders have to make a living somehow. The article makes the point that the wisdom really does take much longer to communicate - a nugget of wisdom like ‘accept yourself’ seems trite when taken alone, but the examples (presumably filling the other 300 pages) are what makes the advice actually sink in.
- foreverhere 7y ago
  This is similar to secret societies of the 18th century. Using an initiation ceremony to convey simple ideas in alluring, romantic rituals.
- afiori 7y ago
  More than that it is about how different we all are, the parent poster would like no anecdote, I would like some, you would like some different from mines. 300 pages of filler could very well be the same message told 15 different times in 15 different format hoping that most people would gain that precious wisdom from at least one of them. I see this as a common fallacy of hyperrational people

kody 7y ago

I recommend the podcast "By The Book" if you're fascinated by/interested in the self-help book genre. The hosts select a self-help book, try to live it to the letter, and report their findings.

nestorherre 7y ago
Thanks for the heads up. Checking it out atm and it seems valuable.

munificent 7y ago

The article says that good self-help that leads to wisdom is obvious but hard to imply. The natural corollary of that is that you probably already have the necessary wisdom in your head (because it's obvious). And thus, if you're debating between spending two hours reading a self-help book and spending those two hours doing basically anything else, the latter is likely the better choice because there is at least some chance than in those two hours you will apply some wisdom or otherwise enrich your life. The reason self-help books are bad is not because they contain bad information. It's because reading them burns time that could otherwise be better spent.

amurthy1 7y ago
Just because something is obvious once shown to you doesn't mean it was immediately present in your mind beforehand, so being made aware of it can still be valuable. But agree that there's diminishing returns from these insights and focusing more on the specific details of your life is usually more impactful.

MadWombat 7y ago

So... now we have an article that helps you read the books that help you...

BitwiseFool 7y ago
It's just guides all the way down...

danvoell 7y ago

I think that's the first time I have seen the social validity person be someone I know. I always assume its boilerplate photos. Way to go Mehul!

BeetleB 7y ago

I recognized only one book from his initial list: Quiet by Susan Cain. It's a good book. It is not, nor does it claim to be, a self-help book. The same can be said of Gladwell's books. There's a bit of strawman stuff going on in the article.

paulpauper 7y ago

There is also Jordan Peterson, who blurs the lines between self-help and textbook-based knowledge

ravenstine 7y ago

Our culture and our algorithms value quantity. It's the same reason why so many YouTube videos are now mostly fluff. We assume a video greater than 20 minutes or a book that's over 100 pages is worth something. But a simple essay or booklet can be worth their weight in gold.

blueyes 7y ago

In my opinion, the medium is the problem. It's easy to read advice. It's hard to know how to apply general advice to a concrete situation. For that, you need to be in a live conversation with someone wise or knowledgeable.

pramit 7y ago

'Verbose..repetitive..filler content..5/10 pages useful content, rest is fluff...' these were the reasons I wanted to create a no-nonsense encyclopedia of self help, self improvement and career advice. Tiny Skills https://www.thesuccessmanual.in/tiny-skills.php https://www.thesuccessmanual.in/tiny-skills.php

znpy 7y ago

The thing I dislike the most about self-help/self-improvement books (example: Getting things done, by David Allen) is that they spend a lot of the book trying to convince you that their method work. What I'm saying is: I already bough a copy of the book, you don't have to convince me anymore. I already gave you my money. Just explain me the stuff.