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>Can you imagine something like this happening in America? A new, dangerous respiratory virus mutating in the overcrowded and unhygienic environment of a poorl

>Can you imagine something like this happening in America? A new, dangerous respiratory virus mutating in the overcrowded and unhygienic environment of a poorly-managed city market, and then spreading almost unchecked for six weeks, amidst continual denials of its serious nature? No, probably not.

cddotdotslash 7y ago
No, instead we just have periodic resurgence of diseases that have been cured for decades, like measles, that kill hundreds of children and vulnerable adults because a significant portion of our population doesn't "believe" in modern science and a significant portion of our government isn't willing to make them do otherwise. But no, we don't have dirty food markets, so we have that going for us.
- solarhoma 7y ago
  These diseases typically manifest in areas with high populations of religious fanatics. Many of the cases that I have heard of originate in the boroughs NYC. Sounds strange that a large population of religious fanatics would reside in NYC but they are there.
  - ars 7y ago
    This is not true. Rates of vaccine refusal among Jews is almost exactly the same as that of the general public. The most you can say is that Jews have more contact with each other (they have strong community ties) so the virus has a chance to spread. PS. Good job labeling ordinary people "religious fanatics". You might want to take a deep look inside yourself.
    - gamblor956 7y ago
      That is false. The rates of vaccine refusal for secular Jews is the same as the general public. The rate of vaccine refusal for Orthodox Jews is radically higher than the general public--second only to Jehovah's Witnesses on a proportionate basis.
      - ars 7y ago
        That is utter nonsense: "However, the New York State Health Department reports the average vaccination rate for measles among the nearly 200 Jewish K-12 schools in Brooklyn — mainly in Borough Park and Williamsburg — is 96%, six percentage points higher than the statewide average among private schools. In contrast, six other New York counties have a vaccination rate below 50%." And just to be clear, these are Orthodox K-12 schools we are talking about. https://health.data.ny.gov/Health/School-Immunization-Survey-Beginning-2012-13-Schoo/5pme-xbs5 https://health.data.ny.gov/Health/School-Immunization-Survey... > The rate of vaccine refusal for Orthodox Jews is radically higher than the general public--second only to Jehovah's Witnesses on a proportionate basis. Where in the world are you getting such utter crap data from? There were some schools at 77%, but that was not vaccine refusal, that was just kids who hadn't made time to go to the Dr., when prompted virtually all of them vaccinated. And that's from the CDC itself.
        gamblor956 7y ago
        I see that you made your point with data from 2012-2013, which is largely irrelevant to my comment. https://www.jta.org/2019/06/07/united-states/heres-what-we-know-about-orthodox-vaccination-rates https://www.jta.org/2019/06/07/united-states/heres-what-we-k... The County at issue in that outbreak confirms the low vaccination rates as of 2018 and 2019, when the outbreak actually occurred.
    - solarhoma 7y ago
      Directly from the CDC for 2018 outbreaks. >The U.S. experienced 17 outbreaks in 2018. Three outbreaks in New York State, New York City, and New Jersey, respectively, contributed to most of the cases. Cases in those states occurred primarily among unvaccinated people in Orthodox Jewish communities. These outbreaks were associated with travelers who brought measles back from Israel, where a large outbreak is occurring. Eighty-two people brought measles to the U.S. from other countries in 2018.
      - ars 7y ago
        And? Vaccination rates among Orthodox Jews is the same as the general population, only the close contact part is different.
        solarhoma 7y ago
        It is no where near the same. 60% according to this article which was the top post in DDG search. Compared to 92.5% to general population. Stop spreading lies. >In upstate New York, the outbreak has spread through insular communities in Rockland and Orange counties, where vaccination rates in some schools and day care centers is at 60%, according to New York state health commissioner Dr. Howard Zucker. The state’s overall vaccination rate is 92.5%, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Source: https://forward.com/news/national/417390/measles-is-hitting-ultra-orthodox-communities-why-arent-they-vaccinating/ https://forward.com/news/national/417390/measles-is-hitting-...
        ars 7y ago
        Nice cherry picking, how's this for a quote then: "However, the New York State Health Department reports the average vaccination rate for measles among the nearly 200 Jewish K-12 schools in Brooklyn — mainly in Borough Park and Williamsburg — is 96%" To get 60% in a couple schools the rates at the rest of the schools must be pretty near 100%.
        solarhoma 7y ago
- adventured 7y ago
  > that have been cured for decades, like measles Cured? Where? The US had ~1,300 cases in 2019 and successfully put down the small outbreak. By September the cases were down to six that month and they stayed down. It was the worst outbreak in decades. The EU had as many cases in 2019 - 13,500 - as the US did in the prior 20 years combined. That's ten times the figure the US had in 2019. In 2017 + 2018 Europe broadly had around 110,000 cases. I think the US is very obviously doing excellent regarding measles.
hatenberg 7y ago
No probably not... crammed homeless in city parks giving each other Hep, city streets disinfected from feces, leprosy being endemic in parts of the homeless population. People unable to afford life-saving medication or unable to take time off work due to lack of medical leave, choosing to carry their viruses to work. People also never eat Armadillo meet and come down with the plague. Large parts of the population distrusting science and government and rejecting vital vaccination to keep diseases from spreading. Such things would never happen in any kind of first world country. let's focus on exotic animal markets in China to make us all feel superior
- _iyig 7y ago
  While the plight of the homeless in the U.S. is great discussion fodder, I don't see what relevance it has to meat market hygiene in China, or the state's role in publishing accurate public health information.
  - hatenberg 7y ago
    Yes, thank god we have no head of state questioning vaccines and no federal agencies dismantling health related regulations. thank god No, health epidemics could never thrive in our amazing country because we have safe meat markets
    - gamblor956 7y ago
      You're right, they couldn't, because the US has much stricter safety regulations to prevent stuff like this from happening. Unlike China, the West tries to learn from its mistakes. It's why we have so much bureaucracy. The cost of red tape seems excessive until shit like this happens in the places that don't have red tape.
      - hatenberg 7y ago
        Wow. Really. Only we are able to learn from mistakes and we have so much bureaucracy. We do so much learning, its Yuuge I tell you. No other country learns so great. And our bureaucracy, everyone is jealous of it, it is so highly, so much red tape. Nobody has that much red tape. https://qz.com/1790253/the-usda-is-recalling-more-unsafe-meat-now-than-in-2013/ https://qz.com/1790253/the-usda-is-recalling-more-unsafe-mea... Lol

cddotdotslash 7y ago

No, instead we just have periodic resurgence of diseases that have been cured for decades, like measles, that kill hundreds of children and vulnerable adults because a significant portion of our population doesn't "believe" in modern science and a significant portion of our government isn't willing to make them do otherwise. But no, we don't have dirty food markets, so we have that going for us.

solarhoma 7y ago
These diseases typically manifest in areas with high populations of religious fanatics. Many of the cases that I have heard of originate in the boroughs NYC. Sounds strange that a large population of religious fanatics would reside in NYC but they are there.
- ars 7y ago
  This is not true. Rates of vaccine refusal among Jews is almost exactly the same as that of the general public. The most you can say is that Jews have more contact with each other (they have strong community ties) so the virus has a chance to spread. PS. Good job labeling ordinary people "religious fanatics". You might want to take a deep look inside yourself.
  - gamblor956 7y ago
    That is false. The rates of vaccine refusal for secular Jews is the same as the general public. The rate of vaccine refusal for Orthodox Jews is radically higher than the general public--second only to Jehovah's Witnesses on a proportionate basis.
    - ars 7y ago
      That is utter nonsense: "However, the New York State Health Department reports the average vaccination rate for measles among the nearly 200 Jewish K-12 schools in Brooklyn — mainly in Borough Park and Williamsburg — is 96%, six percentage points higher than the statewide average among private schools. In contrast, six other New York counties have a vaccination rate below 50%." And just to be clear, these are Orthodox K-12 schools we are talking about. https://health.data.ny.gov/Health/School-Immunization-Survey-Beginning-2012-13-Schoo/5pme-xbs5 https://health.data.ny.gov/Health/School-Immunization-Survey... > The rate of vaccine refusal for Orthodox Jews is radically higher than the general public--second only to Jehovah's Witnesses on a proportionate basis. Where in the world are you getting such utter crap data from? There were some schools at 77%, but that was not vaccine refusal, that was just kids who hadn't made time to go to the Dr., when prompted virtually all of them vaccinated. And that's from the CDC itself.
      - gamblor956 7y ago
        I see that you made your point with data from 2012-2013, which is largely irrelevant to my comment. https://www.jta.org/2019/06/07/united-states/heres-what-we-know-about-orthodox-vaccination-rates https://www.jta.org/2019/06/07/united-states/heres-what-we-k... The County at issue in that outbreak confirms the low vaccination rates as of 2018 and 2019, when the outbreak actually occurred.
  - solarhoma 7y ago
    Directly from the CDC for 2018 outbreaks. >The U.S. experienced 17 outbreaks in 2018. Three outbreaks in New York State, New York City, and New Jersey, respectively, contributed to most of the cases. Cases in those states occurred primarily among unvaccinated people in Orthodox Jewish communities. These outbreaks were associated with travelers who brought measles back from Israel, where a large outbreak is occurring. Eighty-two people brought measles to the U.S. from other countries in 2018.
    - ars 7y ago
      And? Vaccination rates among Orthodox Jews is the same as the general population, only the close contact part is different.
      - solarhoma 7y ago
        It is no where near the same. 60% according to this article which was the top post in DDG search. Compared to 92.5% to general population. Stop spreading lies. >In upstate New York, the outbreak has spread through insular communities in Rockland and Orange counties, where vaccination rates in some schools and day care centers is at 60%, according to New York state health commissioner Dr. Howard Zucker. The state’s overall vaccination rate is 92.5%, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Source: https://forward.com/news/national/417390/measles-is-hitting-ultra-orthodox-communities-why-arent-they-vaccinating/ https://forward.com/news/national/417390/measles-is-hitting-...
        ars 7y ago
        Nice cherry picking, how's this for a quote then: "However, the New York State Health Department reports the average vaccination rate for measles among the nearly 200 Jewish K-12 schools in Brooklyn — mainly in Borough Park and Williamsburg — is 96%" To get 60% in a couple schools the rates at the rest of the schools must be pretty near 100%.
        solarhoma 7y ago
adventured 7y ago
> that have been cured for decades, like measles Cured? Where? The US had ~1,300 cases in 2019 and successfully put down the small outbreak. By September the cases were down to six that month and they stayed down. It was the worst outbreak in decades. The EU had as many cases in 2019 - 13,500 - as the US did in the prior 20 years combined. That's ten times the figure the US had in 2019. In 2017 + 2018 Europe broadly had around 110,000 cases. I think the US is very obviously doing excellent regarding measles.

hatenberg 7y ago

No probably not... crammed homeless in city parks giving each other Hep, city streets disinfected from feces, leprosy being endemic in parts of the homeless population. People unable to afford life-saving medication or unable to take time off work due to lack of medical leave, choosing to carry their viruses to work. People also never eat Armadillo meet and come down with the plague. Large parts of the population distrusting science and government and rejecting vital vaccination to keep diseases from spreading. Such things would never happen in any kind of first world country. let's focus on exotic animal markets in China to make us all feel superior

_iyig 7y ago
While the plight of the homeless in the U.S. is great discussion fodder, I don't see what relevance it has to meat market hygiene in China, or the state's role in publishing accurate public health information.
- hatenberg 7y ago
  Yes, thank god we have no head of state questioning vaccines and no federal agencies dismantling health related regulations. thank god No, health epidemics could never thrive in our amazing country because we have safe meat markets
  - gamblor956 7y ago
    You're right, they couldn't, because the US has much stricter safety regulations to prevent stuff like this from happening. Unlike China, the West tries to learn from its mistakes. It's why we have so much bureaucracy. The cost of red tape seems excessive until shit like this happens in the places that don't have red tape.
    - hatenberg 7y ago
      Wow. Really. Only we are able to learn from mistakes and we have so much bureaucracy. We do so much learning, its Yuuge I tell you. No other country learns so great. And our bureaucracy, everyone is jealous of it, it is so highly, so much red tape. Nobody has that much red tape. https://qz.com/1790253/the-usda-is-recalling-more-unsafe-meat-now-than-in-2013/ https://qz.com/1790253/the-usda-is-recalling-more-unsafe-mea... Lol