8 ms·

Can you imagine something like this happening in America?

duxup 7y ago
Yes.
FatalLogic 7y ago
>Can you imagine something like this happening in America? A new, dangerous respiratory virus mutating in the overcrowded and unhygienic environment of a poorly-managed city market, and then spreading almost unchecked for six weeks, amidst continual denials of its serious nature? No, probably not.
- cddotdotslash 7y ago
  No, instead we just have periodic resurgence of diseases that have been cured for decades, like measles, that kill hundreds of children and vulnerable adults because a significant portion of our population doesn't "believe" in modern science and a significant portion of our government isn't willing to make them do otherwise. But no, we don't have dirty food markets, so we have that going for us.
  - solarhoma 7y ago
    These diseases typically manifest in areas with high populations of religious fanatics. Many of the cases that I have heard of originate in the boroughs NYC. Sounds strange that a large population of religious fanatics would reside in NYC but they are there.
    - ars 7y ago
      This is not true. Rates of vaccine refusal among Jews is almost exactly the same as that of the general public. The most you can say is that Jews have more contact with each other (they have strong community ties) so the virus has a chance to spread. PS. Good job labeling ordinary people "religious fanatics". You might want to take a deep look inside yourself.
      - gamblor956 7y ago
        That is false. The rates of vaccine refusal for secular Jews is the same as the general public. The rate of vaccine refusal for Orthodox Jews is radically higher than the general public--second only to Jehovah's Witnesses on a proportionate basis.
        ars 7y ago
        That is utter nonsense: "However, the New York State Health Department reports the average vaccination rate for measles among the nearly 200 Jewish K-12 schools in Brooklyn — mainly in Borough Park and Williamsburg — is 96%, six percentage points higher than the statewide average among private schools. In contrast, six other New York counties have a vaccination rate below 50%." And just to be clear, these are Orthodox K-12 schools we are talking about. https://health.data.ny.gov/Health/School-Immunization-Survey-Beginning-2012-13-Schoo/5pme-xbs5 https://health.data.ny.gov/Health/School-Immunization-Survey... > The rate of vaccine refusal for Orthodox Jews is radically higher than the general public--second only to Jehovah's Witnesses on a proportionate basis. Where in the world are you getting such utter crap data from? There were some schools at 77%, but that was not vaccine refusal, that was just kids who hadn't made time to go to the Dr., when prompted virtually all of them vaccinated. And that's from the CDC itself.
        gamblor956 7y ago
        I see that you made your point with data from 2012-2013, which is largely irrelevant to my comment. https://www.jta.org/2019/06/07/united-states/heres-what-we-know-about-orthodox-vaccination-rates https://www.jta.org/2019/06/07/united-states/heres-what-we-k... The County at issue in that outbreak confirms the low vaccination rates as of 2018 and 2019, when the outbreak actually occurred.
      - solarhoma 7y ago
        Directly from the CDC for 2018 outbreaks. >The U.S. experienced 17 outbreaks in 2018. Three outbreaks in New York State, New York City, and New Jersey, respectively, contributed to most of the cases. Cases in those states occurred primarily among unvaccinated people in Orthodox Jewish communities. These outbreaks were associated with travelers who brought measles back from Israel, where a large outbreak is occurring. Eighty-two people brought measles to the U.S. from other countries in 2018.
  - adventured 7y ago
    > that have been cured for decades, like measles Cured? Where? The US had ~1,300 cases in 2019 and successfully put down the small outbreak. By September the cases were down to six that month and they stayed down. It was the worst outbreak in decades. The EU had as many cases in 2019 - 13,500 - as the US did in the prior 20 years combined. That's ten times the figure the US had in 2019. In 2017 + 2018 Europe broadly had around 110,000 cases. I think the US is very obviously doing excellent regarding measles.
- hatenberg 7y ago
  No probably not... crammed homeless in city parks giving each other Hep, city streets disinfected from feces, leprosy being endemic in parts of the homeless population. People unable to afford life-saving medication or unable to take time off work due to lack of medical leave, choosing to carry their viruses to work. People also never eat Armadillo meet and come down with the plague. Large parts of the population distrusting science and government and rejecting vital vaccination to keep diseases from spreading. Such things would never happen in any kind of first world country. let's focus on exotic animal markets in China to make us all feel superior
  - _iyig 7y ago
    While the plight of the homeless in the U.S. is great discussion fodder, I don't see what relevance it has to meat market hygiene in China, or the state's role in publishing accurate public health information.
    - hatenberg 7y ago
      Yes, thank god we have no head of state questioning vaccines and no federal agencies dismantling health related regulations. thank god No, health epidemics could never thrive in our amazing country because we have safe meat markets
      - gamblor956 7y ago
        You're right, they couldn't, because the US has much stricter safety regulations to prevent stuff like this from happening. Unlike China, the West tries to learn from its mistakes. It's why we have so much bureaucracy. The cost of red tape seems excessive until shit like this happens in the places that don't have red tape.
        hatenberg 7y ago
        Wow. Really. Only we are able to learn from mistakes and we have so much bureaucracy. We do so much learning, its Yuuge I tell you. No other country learns so great. And our bureaucracy, everyone is jealous of it, it is so highly, so much red tape. Nobody has that much red tape. https://qz.com/1790253/the-usda-is-recalling-more-unsafe-meat-now-than-in-2013/ https://qz.com/1790253/the-usda-is-recalling-more-unsafe-mea... Lol
throwaway122378 7y ago
If it did it would get blamed on global warming, Trump, or white supremacy
zer00eyz 7y ago
I can: https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/One-MacArthur-freeway-connector-reopens-2597008.php https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/One-MacArthur-freeway... This was an impressive thing to live through too...
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
JulianMorrison 7y ago
I can imagine it being much, much worse in America. You have an underclass who cannot afford to go to hospital or see a doctor, which extends well up into the low end of the working middle class. You have employers who penalize workers for self-quarantine. You have vicious mistreatment of undocumented people that makes them scared to draw official notice anywhere.
- thedudeabides5 7y ago
  You also just have much less dense populations.
  - JulianMorrison 7y ago
    Not in cities. And a latency on the order of a week gives people plenty of time to travel.
ars 7y ago
If the US needed to build emergency field hospitals they would have the Civil Engineer Corps (part of the military) do it. The military is quite experienced at putting up buildings very very fast.
koheripbal 7y ago
With a preliminary R0 of 3.8, and two dozen suspected cases under quarantine - we might not need to imagine for much longer.
- Markoff 7y ago
  1.4-2.5 according WHO

Yes.

>Can you imagine something like this happening in America? A new, dangerous respiratory virus mutating in the overcrowded and unhygienic environment of a poorly-managed city market, and then spreading almost unchecked for six weeks, amidst continual denials of its serious nature? No, probably not.

cddotdotslash 7y ago
No, instead we just have periodic resurgence of diseases that have been cured for decades, like measles, that kill hundreds of children and vulnerable adults because a significant portion of our population doesn't "believe" in modern science and a significant portion of our government isn't willing to make them do otherwise. But no, we don't have dirty food markets, so we have that going for us.
- solarhoma 7y ago
  These diseases typically manifest in areas with high populations of religious fanatics. Many of the cases that I have heard of originate in the boroughs NYC. Sounds strange that a large population of religious fanatics would reside in NYC but they are there.
  - ars 7y ago
    This is not true. Rates of vaccine refusal among Jews is almost exactly the same as that of the general public. The most you can say is that Jews have more contact with each other (they have strong community ties) so the virus has a chance to spread. PS. Good job labeling ordinary people "religious fanatics". You might want to take a deep look inside yourself.
    - gamblor956 7y ago
      That is false. The rates of vaccine refusal for secular Jews is the same as the general public. The rate of vaccine refusal for Orthodox Jews is radically higher than the general public--second only to Jehovah's Witnesses on a proportionate basis.
      - ars 7y ago
        That is utter nonsense: "However, the New York State Health Department reports the average vaccination rate for measles among the nearly 200 Jewish K-12 schools in Brooklyn — mainly in Borough Park and Williamsburg — is 96%, six percentage points higher than the statewide average among private schools. In contrast, six other New York counties have a vaccination rate below 50%." And just to be clear, these are Orthodox K-12 schools we are talking about. https://health.data.ny.gov/Health/School-Immunization-Survey-Beginning-2012-13-Schoo/5pme-xbs5 https://health.data.ny.gov/Health/School-Immunization-Survey... > The rate of vaccine refusal for Orthodox Jews is radically higher than the general public--second only to Jehovah's Witnesses on a proportionate basis. Where in the world are you getting such utter crap data from? There were some schools at 77%, but that was not vaccine refusal, that was just kids who hadn't made time to go to the Dr., when prompted virtually all of them vaccinated. And that's from the CDC itself.
        gamblor956 7y ago
        I see that you made your point with data from 2012-2013, which is largely irrelevant to my comment. https://www.jta.org/2019/06/07/united-states/heres-what-we-know-about-orthodox-vaccination-rates https://www.jta.org/2019/06/07/united-states/heres-what-we-k... The County at issue in that outbreak confirms the low vaccination rates as of 2018 and 2019, when the outbreak actually occurred.
    - solarhoma 7y ago
      Directly from the CDC for 2018 outbreaks. >The U.S. experienced 17 outbreaks in 2018. Three outbreaks in New York State, New York City, and New Jersey, respectively, contributed to most of the cases. Cases in those states occurred primarily among unvaccinated people in Orthodox Jewish communities. These outbreaks were associated with travelers who brought measles back from Israel, where a large outbreak is occurring. Eighty-two people brought measles to the U.S. from other countries in 2018.
- adventured 7y ago
  > that have been cured for decades, like measles Cured? Where? The US had ~1,300 cases in 2019 and successfully put down the small outbreak. By September the cases were down to six that month and they stayed down. It was the worst outbreak in decades. The EU had as many cases in 2019 - 13,500 - as the US did in the prior 20 years combined. That's ten times the figure the US had in 2019. In 2017 + 2018 Europe broadly had around 110,000 cases. I think the US is very obviously doing excellent regarding measles.
hatenberg 7y ago
No probably not... crammed homeless in city parks giving each other Hep, city streets disinfected from feces, leprosy being endemic in parts of the homeless population. People unable to afford life-saving medication or unable to take time off work due to lack of medical leave, choosing to carry their viruses to work. People also never eat Armadillo meet and come down with the plague. Large parts of the population distrusting science and government and rejecting vital vaccination to keep diseases from spreading. Such things would never happen in any kind of first world country. let's focus on exotic animal markets in China to make us all feel superior
- _iyig 7y ago
  While the plight of the homeless in the U.S. is great discussion fodder, I don't see what relevance it has to meat market hygiene in China, or the state's role in publishing accurate public health information.
  - hatenberg 7y ago
    Yes, thank god we have no head of state questioning vaccines and no federal agencies dismantling health related regulations. thank god No, health epidemics could never thrive in our amazing country because we have safe meat markets
    - gamblor956 7y ago
      You're right, they couldn't, because the US has much stricter safety regulations to prevent stuff like this from happening. Unlike China, the West tries to learn from its mistakes. It's why we have so much bureaucracy. The cost of red tape seems excessive until shit like this happens in the places that don't have red tape.
      - hatenberg 7y ago
        Wow. Really. Only we are able to learn from mistakes and we have so much bureaucracy. We do so much learning, its Yuuge I tell you. No other country learns so great. And our bureaucracy, everyone is jealous of it, it is so highly, so much red tape. Nobody has that much red tape. https://qz.com/1790253/the-usda-is-recalling-more-unsafe-meat-now-than-in-2013/ https://qz.com/1790253/the-usda-is-recalling-more-unsafe-mea... Lol

throwaway122378 7y ago

If it did it would get blamed on global warming, Trump, or white supremacy

zer00eyz 7y ago

I can: https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/One-MacArthur-freeway-connector-reopens-2597008.php https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/One-MacArthur-freeway... This was an impressive thing to live through too...

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

JulianMorrison 7y ago

I can imagine it being much, much worse in America. You have an underclass who cannot afford to go to hospital or see a doctor, which extends well up into the low end of the working middle class. You have employers who penalize workers for self-quarantine. You have vicious mistreatment of undocumented people that makes them scared to draw official notice anywhere.

thedudeabides5 7y ago
You also just have much less dense populations.
- JulianMorrison 7y ago
  Not in cities. And a latency on the order of a week gives people plenty of time to travel.

ars 7y ago

If the US needed to build emergency field hospitals they would have the Civil Engineer Corps (part of the military) do it. The military is quite experienced at putting up buildings very very fast.

koheripbal 7y ago

With a preliminary R0 of 3.8, and two dozen suspected cases under quarantine - we might not need to imagine for much longer.

Markoff 7y ago
1.4-2.5 according WHO