4 ms·

I think there is some expectation of privacy online. No such expectation exists in a public space.

femiagbabiaka 7y ago
There are. For example, if you were to put your phone in someone’s face as if you were recording, most folks would have a problem. Now where I might agree is if you meant there is no expectation of anonymity.
Enginerrrd 7y ago
>No such expectation exists in a public space. It sure as hell does in any practical sense. I expect that I can walk around town, and people that I don't know, don't know my name, phone number, purchase history, etc. Let's say I want to buy a butt plug or something. I could go to the sex shop in town, and make sure nobody I knew was around before I went in, buy it and leave. If I wanted to buy a studded electro-shock butt plug, and wanted to take extra precautions that I was undiscovered, I could drive to another town and drop it off. Now suppose I'm a government whistle blower trying to expose some really nasty government coverup or conspiracy committed by the FBI. I'd definitely take the same precaution. I could leave my phone, go several cities over, walk up to a public mail drop and drop off my envelope of documentation in the USPS box and historically, could fully expect to remain anonymous in doing so. That's still arguably safer than sending an email and hoping I've perfectly configured all my network VPN or tor settings to try to ensure there aren't any leaks. That's NOT the case with facial recognition. Particularly when that info can be processed and categorized into a form where someone could just query an identity and get a complete historical tracking of a bunch of places you've been prior to any sort of investigative interest.
- kenjackson 7y ago
  You walk in and your neighbor is working the cash register. Now he tells everyone you know. All you’ve done is try to obtain privacy, but you can’t walk into the shop and demand that your neighbor shouldn’t be there. The “expectation of privacy” is really a hope that you’ve marked your identity well enough, which is really the same thing you do online.
  - Enginerrrd 7y ago
    >You walk in and your neighbor is working the cash register. This is a total fantasy. 1. If I was concerned about it, I probably would have noticed before entering that he was there. 2. If I knew him, I'd probably know where he worked and could avoid him. 3. If I didn't catch myself in time, I could walk in and buy something mundane, or nothing at all, or a gift card. 4. If I was really concerned, I'd go the next town over. 5. There's a massive difference between taking a very low probability risk of being identified multiplied by further low probabilities of it being spread notable, remembered, and spread around, and a 100% chance of being categorically identified and logged by an automated system.
emodendroket 7y ago
I disagree. If someone followed you around taking film while you were in a public place you'd probably object (or most people would).
raxxorrax 7y ago
> No such expectation exists in a public space. I have that expectation for most of that space.
diffeomorphism 7y ago
Don't I have even more privacy in public space? Sure, people know what I look like, but not my name, my email, the contents of my backpack, since when I have been a member of this forum etc. . If they see me again the next day they might not even be sure that I am the same person (unlike unique usernames with history).

There are. For example, if you were to put your phone in someone’s face as if you were recording, most folks would have a problem. Now where I might agree is if you meant there is no expectation of anonymity.

Enginerrrd 7y ago

>No such expectation exists in a public space. It sure as hell does in any practical sense. I expect that I can walk around town, and people that I don't know, don't know my name, phone number, purchase history, etc. Let's say I want to buy a butt plug or something. I could go to the sex shop in town, and make sure nobody I knew was around before I went in, buy it and leave. If I wanted to buy a studded electro-shock butt plug, and wanted to take extra precautions that I was undiscovered, I could drive to another town and drop it off. Now suppose I'm a government whistle blower trying to expose some really nasty government coverup or conspiracy committed by the FBI. I'd definitely take the same precaution. I could leave my phone, go several cities over, walk up to a public mail drop and drop off my envelope of documentation in the USPS box and historically, could fully expect to remain anonymous in doing so. That's still arguably safer than sending an email and hoping I've perfectly configured all my network VPN or tor settings to try to ensure there aren't any leaks. That's NOT the case with facial recognition. Particularly when that info can be processed and categorized into a form where someone could just query an identity and get a complete historical tracking of a bunch of places you've been prior to any sort of investigative interest.

kenjackson 7y ago
You walk in and your neighbor is working the cash register. Now he tells everyone you know. All you’ve done is try to obtain privacy, but you can’t walk into the shop and demand that your neighbor shouldn’t be there. The “expectation of privacy” is really a hope that you’ve marked your identity well enough, which is really the same thing you do online.
- Enginerrrd 7y ago
  >You walk in and your neighbor is working the cash register. This is a total fantasy. 1. If I was concerned about it, I probably would have noticed before entering that he was there. 2. If I knew him, I'd probably know where he worked and could avoid him. 3. If I didn't catch myself in time, I could walk in and buy something mundane, or nothing at all, or a gift card. 4. If I was really concerned, I'd go the next town over. 5. There's a massive difference between taking a very low probability risk of being identified multiplied by further low probabilities of it being spread notable, remembered, and spread around, and a 100% chance of being categorically identified and logged by an automated system.

emodendroket 7y ago

I disagree. If someone followed you around taking film while you were in a public place you'd probably object (or most people would).

raxxorrax 7y ago

> No such expectation exists in a public space. I have that expectation for most of that space.

diffeomorphism 7y ago

Don't I have even more privacy in public space? Sure, people know what I look like, but not my name, my email, the contents of my backpack, since when I have been a member of this forum etc. . If they see me again the next day they might not even be sure that I am the same person (unlike unique usernames with history).