5 ms·

> I have heard from other SAR groups that the beacons have been a mixed bag, and they're getting too many call-outs from people who just got tired and want a ri

> I have heard from other SAR groups that the beacons have been a mixed bag, and they're getting too many call-outs from people who just got tired and want a ride home. It seems like charging people for the cost of the rescue would solve that problem.

mjevans 7y ago
How about if a judge gets to decide if they are required to be force-enrolled in to a class that teaches safety in similarly fitting situations and/or some quantity of community service from a list of activities that are fitting of rehabilitation and improving the commons.
- thaumaturgy 7y ago
  I'm pleased to say that a handful of past search subjects have gone on to become SAR volunteers themselves, so some people already do this without needing a judge's involvement.
- 1123581321 7y ago
  Those would enormously prohibit calling in, more than money for many people due to the potential public embarrassment, let alone the time, extra required PTO and potential cognitive load from the legal situation.
  - mjevans 7y ago
    If it's embarrassing there is already an EXTREMELY high chance some local news agency will cover it sooner or later already. Yes, even more so if those in need don't call and end up dead.
alach11 7y ago
Adding negative consequences to "false calls" could have a chilling effect on real calls. You don't want people to have to weigh whether they should try to tough it out and risk heat stroke vs. risk a charged rescue. On balance, it's probably better to have false positives here than false negatives.
thaumaturgy 7y ago
SAR and Mountain Rescue Association groups are almost entirely opposed to any form of pay-for-rescue, including the kind of "negligence fines" that a few agencies like New Hampshire's Fish and Game department levies. It's not just a theoretical possibility that people will hesitate to call for rescue if they think they'll be charged for it, it's something that has already happened in a lot of cases. When people delay a call for rescue, it complicates search and rescue efforts and may even further endanger rescuers. A great example of this is injuries that worsen to the point that they require evac by helicopter. Helicopters are an over-used tool in SAR and they are extremely dangerous. It's much safer for us if we can just hike out to you, triage a minor injury, and escort you out on foot or by litter if necessary. If we arrive and you're delirious with pain, exhaustion, or dehydration, those options have just gone off the table. Another really unfortunate related issue is the number of people that think they have to wait a certain period of time before reporting someone overdue or missing. That's not at all the case, especially where children are involved. We would much rather get out while the potential search area is only a few square miles than get called when it's gone up to 30 or more square miles, even if it means we more frequently get woken up in the middle of the night only to get a "disregard, subject located" notification 20 minutes later. I have a number of statements available from various SAR groups and other articles on this subject if anyone's interested.
- pyromine 7y ago
  Just as an anecdote I received a fairly significant injury while on a multi-day climb in the French Alps this past summer and my climbing partner and I had a significant discussion regarding the cost of a rescue that definitely factored in to our decision whether or not to keep climbing. I bought rescue insurance the next day.
  - greatpatton 7y ago
    In France mountain rescue is provided free of charge by the french state (only exception is when you are skiing on an official ski run). In Switzerland it’s not free, and almost all the population is a member of the 2 main associations that will cover the costs.
- 7y ago

mjevans 7y ago

How about if a judge gets to decide if they are required to be force-enrolled in to a class that teaches safety in similarly fitting situations and/or some quantity of community service from a list of activities that are fitting of rehabilitation and improving the commons.

thaumaturgy 7y ago
I'm pleased to say that a handful of past search subjects have gone on to become SAR volunteers themselves, so some people already do this without needing a judge's involvement.
1123581321 7y ago
Those would enormously prohibit calling in, more than money for many people due to the potential public embarrassment, let alone the time, extra required PTO and potential cognitive load from the legal situation.
- mjevans 7y ago
  If it's embarrassing there is already an EXTREMELY high chance some local news agency will cover it sooner or later already. Yes, even more so if those in need don't call and end up dead.

alach11 7y ago

Adding negative consequences to "false calls" could have a chilling effect on real calls. You don't want people to have to weigh whether they should try to tough it out and risk heat stroke vs. risk a charged rescue. On balance, it's probably better to have false positives here than false negatives.

thaumaturgy 7y ago

SAR and Mountain Rescue Association groups are almost entirely opposed to any form of pay-for-rescue, including the kind of "negligence fines" that a few agencies like New Hampshire's Fish and Game department levies. It's not just a theoretical possibility that people will hesitate to call for rescue if they think they'll be charged for it, it's something that has already happened in a lot of cases. When people delay a call for rescue, it complicates search and rescue efforts and may even further endanger rescuers. A great example of this is injuries that worsen to the point that they require evac by helicopter. Helicopters are an over-used tool in SAR and they are extremely dangerous. It's much safer for us if we can just hike out to you, triage a minor injury, and escort you out on foot or by litter if necessary. If we arrive and you're delirious with pain, exhaustion, or dehydration, those options have just gone off the table. Another really unfortunate related issue is the number of people that think they have to wait a certain period of time before reporting someone overdue or missing. That's not at all the case, especially where children are involved. We would much rather get out while the potential search area is only a few square miles than get called when it's gone up to 30 or more square miles, even if it means we more frequently get woken up in the middle of the night only to get a "disregard, subject located" notification 20 minutes later. I have a number of statements available from various SAR groups and other articles on this subject if anyone's interested.

pyromine 7y ago
Just as an anecdote I received a fairly significant injury while on a multi-day climb in the French Alps this past summer and my climbing partner and I had a significant discussion regarding the cost of a rescue that definitely factored in to our decision whether or not to keep climbing. I bought rescue insurance the next day.
- greatpatton 7y ago
  In France mountain rescue is provided free of charge by the french state (only exception is when you are skiing on an official ski run). In Switzerland it’s not free, and almost all the population is a member of the 2 main associations that will cover the costs.
7y ago