5 ms·

Before going down a road that involves powerful stimulants that have a high likelihood of abuse or misuse -- the danger is that they're fun, and one develops a

Before going down a road that involves powerful stimulants that have a high likelihood of abuse or misuse -- the danger is that they're fun, and one develops a tolerance, just like other similar illegal drugs -- it might be worthwhile to investigate a mediation practice, or other exercises to improve your attention. If you're already high functioning its likely not as bad as it seems. From experience: First thing to go with the stimulants is healthy sleep; it's often hard to sleep on amphetamines. But in the morning, because you've got a script, you can take a pill and not worry about it (but the body remembers). Next thing to go is healthy eating; you simply don't need to eat when under the influence, or you do -- but you forget. Soon, those things combined could have the potential to turn a high functioning and healthy life into quite the opposite. But in the beginning -- especially if you've never experimented with stimulants recreationally -- you'll feel better than you ever have. Stimulants are euphoric. It's a trap, it wears off. Side-effects are likely. I've said it in a previous comment, but it's profound and interesting until it's not, and once the stimulants are gone a dark depression is very possible. Attention is like a muscle, but also -- attention isn't everything. It could also be ones attitude towards these things. Be skeptical -- understand that there might be blind spots in your thinking about your problems.

CathedralBorrow 7y ago
> the danger is that they're fun I don't know about others, but fun isn't the word I'd use to describe the ADHD medication which I'm basically chained to for life because I cannot function without it, and yet causes me so many other problems that I need to work around or cope with like loss of appetite (food is no longer a thing I enjoy), insomnia, anxiety, restlessness and mood swings. Where's the fun part again? Are you willing to be skeptical yourself and understand that you might have blind spots just like the people you're talking to?
- sibeliuss 7y ago
  > But in the beginning -- especially if you've never experimented with stimulants recreationally -- you'll feel better than you ever have. Stimulants are euphoric. It's a trap, it wears off. Side-effects are likely. I've said it in a previous comment, but it's profound and interesting until it's not, and once the stimulants are gone a dark depression is very possible. As I said further down. It's most certainly not fun later. And it was a difficult as all hell to finally quit.
  - CathedralBorrow 7y ago
    I can absolutely believe that this was your experience, but where I lose you is when you state with certainty that everyone else will experience this the same way you did. I certainly didn't.
    - sibeliuss 7y ago
      I'm not saying anything about everyone else. I said "From experience: ..." Either way, I think we're actually on the same page here, based on what you wrote above.
  - rtikulit 7y ago
    Not my experience at all. Took Vyvanse and Dex for a few years. Able to stay at the therapeutic dose, had no temptation to exceed it. 10-15 mg equivalent of Dex changes my day, and will do so month after month after month. Under psychiatric supervision I did go as high as 40 mg, but that was too much. Side effects are not great, makes me jittery, elevates my heart rate, but the mental benefits are amazing. The stuff completely calms me down. (I have ADHD, for real.) I have been on and off stimulants many times, short, medium and long intervals. The worst that happens is when I go off I've got no energy at all for 3 days. When I would restart stimulants I would get the euphoric effect for a time, and then it would fade away over a few weeks. I have never been tempted to chase it. Everyone's mileage is different.
ohbleek 7y ago
I have NOT found that, when taken at a therapeutic dosage, people with ADD/ADHD thinktheir medications are fun other than the "fun" feeling of satisfaction you get when you complete a task. I have found that people who do not have ADD/ADHD find those same medications to be fun, however, even at a therapeutic dose. Otherwise your comments on the effects are spot on. Personally I had to make a choice in my mid-twenties, the meds or a happy-go-lucky life where I feel unfulfilled but I have a fun time. I used to just sit all day, thinking about what I needed to do, yelling at myself in my head to do it, but never doing anything. Just constant maladaptive daydreaming. I have inattentive type ADD. I didn't develop mental executive functions until I was 28. I started recognizing there was a "manager" in my brain that wasn't there before. I sobbed when I found out most of my peers developed that 10 years earlier. From what I've seen, people with ADD/ADHD go through a cycle of recognizing then denying that they have a disability. I have done this personally 4-5 times in my life. I will accept I have a disability and deal with it, then eventually decide that it was my environment that was causing the symptoms, only to later come to a point where I once again have to accept I have a disability that cannot be managed entirely with CBT, task lists, meditation, mindfulness, etc... I'm happy for those that feel they can do it without medication, but I also have to wonder if I'm just meeting those people at a point in time before they have to get back on medication again...
- sobellian 7y ago
  You're right. Any psychiatrist that prescribes Adderall will tell you that it affects those with ADD differently than those without. Personally, I have never gotten high from it. In fact my medication made me drowsy as a child. A lot of the medical advice in this thread is dangerous. If anyone reading this thinks they have ADHD, seek a qualified professional's opinion - they aren't guaranteed to be right but (respectfully) the odds are much better than some dude on HN.
  - sibeliuss 7y ago
    > You're right. Any psychiatrist that prescribes Adderall will tell you that it affects those with ADD differently than those without. This is based on the assumption that the person being diagnosed does indeed have ADHD, and is not, say, afflicted by a poor home life, or poverty, or any other contextual scenario that may lead to the inability to focus, temporary or otherwise. These are important questions because of the overprescription crisis we are in. Millions of children are being given these medications; many are misdiagnosed. And this isn't "medical advice" -- this is a frame of personal experience with an emphasis on very textbook side-effects: potential for loss of appetite; potential for loss of sleep; danger of misuse and / or abuse. All things a psychiatrist, if responsible, will / would have discussed before writing a script, but oftentimes don't. A reminder that "your milage may vary".
kls 7y ago
I would argue that they are not powerful stimulants at therapeutic doses and have little risk of dependency. I can take my meds as prescribed for months on end, stop taking them cold turkey and have no withdraw symptoms other than the fog and inability to get started comes back as soon as they are out of my system. I personally take prescribed methamphetamine which would be considered to be the strongest in it's class and honestly it's not fun or buzzy or euphoric at therapeutic doses and not as addictive as people make it out to be. Opiates and nicotine have 100x the addition profile when compared to amphetamines. As a note to abuse my medicine at recreational doses of meth I would consume my months prescription in about 4 to 5 days. Not enough time to get physically addicted and it would suck for the foggy rest of the month. I think the risk is overblown.
munk-a 7y ago
I have been on an XR methylphenidate for going on two decades now - it's a pricey medication, I'm a rational person, I'm well aware of how many magic booster packs I could hawk my meds for in high school - I'm also aware that some folks take it recreationally, but a few times I've accidentally doubled up my meds and it feels terrible to me. I haven't abused my meds personally or traded them on the street, and I do regularly trial myself off of meds to make sure the effect is still noticeable. I am happy you can get away with not using pharmaceutical aides, but a lot of folks can't and, while good life style changes are always good, please don't paint these medications in a negative light. They are really helpful and believe me it absolutely makes a difference - and a lot of people don't follow their GP's advice because they're afraid of being over medicated or becoming dependent. People should do what they're comfortable doing, but for people with more severe ADHD stepping off that ledge can mean falling all the way down into a really dark place and needing the help of friends and family to get you back to stability. And, there is absolutely nothing to be ashamed about in taking medication to help you maintain a healthy state.

CathedralBorrow 7y ago

> the danger is that they're fun I don't know about others, but fun isn't the word I'd use to describe the ADHD medication which I'm basically chained to for life because I cannot function without it, and yet causes me so many other problems that I need to work around or cope with like loss of appetite (food is no longer a thing I enjoy), insomnia, anxiety, restlessness and mood swings. Where's the fun part again? Are you willing to be skeptical yourself and understand that you might have blind spots just like the people you're talking to?

sibeliuss 7y ago
> But in the beginning -- especially if you've never experimented with stimulants recreationally -- you'll feel better than you ever have. Stimulants are euphoric. It's a trap, it wears off. Side-effects are likely. I've said it in a previous comment, but it's profound and interesting until it's not, and once the stimulants are gone a dark depression is very possible. As I said further down. It's most certainly not fun later. And it was a difficult as all hell to finally quit.
- CathedralBorrow 7y ago
  I can absolutely believe that this was your experience, but where I lose you is when you state with certainty that everyone else will experience this the same way you did. I certainly didn't.
  - sibeliuss 7y ago
    I'm not saying anything about everyone else. I said "From experience: ..." Either way, I think we're actually on the same page here, based on what you wrote above.
- rtikulit 7y ago
  Not my experience at all. Took Vyvanse and Dex for a few years. Able to stay at the therapeutic dose, had no temptation to exceed it. 10-15 mg equivalent of Dex changes my day, and will do so month after month after month. Under psychiatric supervision I did go as high as 40 mg, but that was too much. Side effects are not great, makes me jittery, elevates my heart rate, but the mental benefits are amazing. The stuff completely calms me down. (I have ADHD, for real.) I have been on and off stimulants many times, short, medium and long intervals. The worst that happens is when I go off I've got no energy at all for 3 days. When I would restart stimulants I would get the euphoric effect for a time, and then it would fade away over a few weeks. I have never been tempted to chase it. Everyone's mileage is different.

ohbleek 7y ago

I have NOT found that, when taken at a therapeutic dosage, people with ADD/ADHD thinktheir medications are fun other than the "fun" feeling of satisfaction you get when you complete a task. I have found that people who do not have ADD/ADHD find those same medications to be fun, however, even at a therapeutic dose. Otherwise your comments on the effects are spot on. Personally I had to make a choice in my mid-twenties, the meds or a happy-go-lucky life where I feel unfulfilled but I have a fun time. I used to just sit all day, thinking about what I needed to do, yelling at myself in my head to do it, but never doing anything. Just constant maladaptive daydreaming. I have inattentive type ADD. I didn't develop mental executive functions until I was 28. I started recognizing there was a "manager" in my brain that wasn't there before. I sobbed when I found out most of my peers developed that 10 years earlier. From what I've seen, people with ADD/ADHD go through a cycle of recognizing then denying that they have a disability. I have done this personally 4-5 times in my life. I will accept I have a disability and deal with it, then eventually decide that it was my environment that was causing the symptoms, only to later come to a point where I once again have to accept I have a disability that cannot be managed entirely with CBT, task lists, meditation, mindfulness, etc... I'm happy for those that feel they can do it without medication, but I also have to wonder if I'm just meeting those people at a point in time before they have to get back on medication again...

sobellian 7y ago
You're right. Any psychiatrist that prescribes Adderall will tell you that it affects those with ADD differently than those without. Personally, I have never gotten high from it. In fact my medication made me drowsy as a child. A lot of the medical advice in this thread is dangerous. If anyone reading this thinks they have ADHD, seek a qualified professional's opinion - they aren't guaranteed to be right but (respectfully) the odds are much better than some dude on HN.
- sibeliuss 7y ago
  > You're right. Any psychiatrist that prescribes Adderall will tell you that it affects those with ADD differently than those without. This is based on the assumption that the person being diagnosed does indeed have ADHD, and is not, say, afflicted by a poor home life, or poverty, or any other contextual scenario that may lead to the inability to focus, temporary or otherwise. These are important questions because of the overprescription crisis we are in. Millions of children are being given these medications; many are misdiagnosed. And this isn't "medical advice" -- this is a frame of personal experience with an emphasis on very textbook side-effects: potential for loss of appetite; potential for loss of sleep; danger of misuse and / or abuse. All things a psychiatrist, if responsible, will / would have discussed before writing a script, but oftentimes don't. A reminder that "your milage may vary".

kls 7y ago

I would argue that they are not powerful stimulants at therapeutic doses and have little risk of dependency. I can take my meds as prescribed for months on end, stop taking them cold turkey and have no withdraw symptoms other than the fog and inability to get started comes back as soon as they are out of my system. I personally take prescribed methamphetamine which would be considered to be the strongest in it's class and honestly it's not fun or buzzy or euphoric at therapeutic doses and not as addictive as people make it out to be. Opiates and nicotine have 100x the addition profile when compared to amphetamines. As a note to abuse my medicine at recreational doses of meth I would consume my months prescription in about 4 to 5 days. Not enough time to get physically addicted and it would suck for the foggy rest of the month. I think the risk is overblown.

munk-a 7y ago

I have been on an XR methylphenidate for going on two decades now - it's a pricey medication, I'm a rational person, I'm well aware of how many magic booster packs I could hawk my meds for in high school - I'm also aware that some folks take it recreationally, but a few times I've accidentally doubled up my meds and it feels terrible to me. I haven't abused my meds personally or traded them on the street, and I do regularly trial myself off of meds to make sure the effect is still noticeable. I am happy you can get away with not using pharmaceutical aides, but a lot of folks can't and, while good life style changes are always good, please don't paint these medications in a negative light. They are really helpful and believe me it absolutely makes a difference - and a lot of people don't follow their GP's advice because they're afraid of being over medicated or becoming dependent. People should do what they're comfortable doing, but for people with more severe ADHD stepping off that ledge can mean falling all the way down into a really dark place and needing the help of friends and family to get you back to stability. And, there is absolutely nothing to be ashamed about in taking medication to help you maintain a healthy state.